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Seven years later [Zombie thread split]
Comments
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Again because they were fed the line and the credit from the banks - if bankers who are paid to assess risk didn't see anything wrong with that how could you expect people who weren't experts to know better?
If a car salesman tells you that a car is a great buy, do you believe him without checking out the car ?
Fecks sake people spent more time and effort on buying a car than a property.So why shouldn't others be allowed to start again? And with respect there were a lot of warnings about the dot.com bubble - what were you? Stupid? Greedy? No disrespect intended but it's the same thing.
So in your world it is ok to run up massive debts, then if times get hard you walk away from them, leaving others to cover those debts and you get to start again the next day ?
Good luck with that. :rolleyes:
And comparing the housing bubble with the dot com buble is like comparing apples with spuds.
It is not the same bloody thing.
I did not demand someone else pay for any losses I encurred after the company I worked for collapsed.
I chose to work for a dot com involved company.
I could leave at anytime, I could go elsewhere.
If you buy a house you are signing up for a 20 to 40 year committment.
You are signing a contract that you will repay someone the money you borrowed.
The only way my job with a dot com would compare would be if I signed up as an indentured servant with a committment to pay my employer over 20 years.But you had a job? You benefited from low taxes did you not? Your job was maybe created or your company profited from the boom did it not?
Why not just say that everyone who lived here owes those that made bad economic decisions ?
Sure my kids can help pay for those decisions as well. :mad:
It is bad enough they are already going to be paying for banks, regulators, government you now wnat them to pay for every eejit who thought a 100% mortgage with their credit card debt rolled in was a mighty idea. :mad:I pay taxes as well and I can tell you I'd rather see people - not institutions both Irish and European bailed out with my taxes and if we allowed people to start again and take up employment wouldn't it lessen the burden on the rest of us?
If it means them getting off SW and working and paying taxes - why not?
Take up what employment ?
Do you think that what is holding back the country is the fact some people are in negative equity and can't move somewhere else to jobs ?What about the shareholders or pension investments - these people can't demand repayment of their money - they were wiped out because of bad investments yet the banks who made the same bad investments. As did the bondholders. These can and are still carrying on.
You do know that making more bad decisions doesn't cancel out existing bad decisions ?
BTW my pension lost money so where is my bailout ? :rolleyes:That money was borrowed - we won't see a cent of it back and while we're cutting budgets to facilitate these loans the banks are raising interest rates and still chasing money from people who don't have it.
Ehh we have to cut budgets not because the banks were bailed out but becuase we were overspending !!!!
You do realise that our expenditure was about 20 billion more than our tax take and that is before we ever factor in the bank bailout costs.It's already dumped on us. Again why shouldn't people be allowed to start again> Do you really see the logic in condemning the 21 year old who bought an investment property to a debt he'll carry around his neck for life? Forcing him out of this country or on the dole?
Why would he be forced on the dole by paying his debts ?
WTF ?
By start again what do you mean ?
Do you think that the person who went out and made a reckless borrowing committment, did not repay it and dumped it on the rest of us should immediately be allowed just walk away without any financial implications ?These are the people who we need to be working.
They should be fooking working anyway.
What the hell is it with this thing about people who are in debt are not capable of working ?No, no we reserve that right for foreign investors/bondholders and the banks - for the plebs it's pay it all back.
Basically everyone deserves a bailout in your world.
Sweet if you are the one getting the bailout, not so nice if you are one paying for it. :rolleyes:We'll have to agree to disagree. But I don't focus on "individuals" that's narrow minded - I look at the drag the having people in major debt - debt that at some stage will become unsustainable is having on our economy.
Yes it is bad that some people are over burdened with debt, but deciding to dump all that on others is not fair and will have a knock on affect.
What do you think the additional costs others will have to bear will do to their spending power ?We'll let these people rot in the sticks where there are no jobs, we'll continue to pay our taxes to pay for the SW that they receive or we'll watch them leave this country to work elsewhere.
So do you think if we bailout all those who as you put it bought in the sticks and let them move that they will magically find jobs and everything will be hunky dory ?
Sorry to burst your little bubble but there aren't the jobs anywhere in this country.
Most of those who are stuck in the sticks worked in construction related jobs and there aren't any of those in Ireland.
Ah but shure we will bail them out so that they can emigrate with a clean slate.BTW, the same naysayers are now saying that mortgage debt write down is essential to the recovery - ironic really as they got it all right so far - I guess they must be wrong and this government must be right. What a turnaround eh....
Hmmm I wonder if some of those naysayers leading this little crusade have large mortgages hangin over their heads and are hoping to benefit from such bailouts ? :rolleyes:
I am out of this discussion because you appear to think that
a) walking away from your debts with no financial implications is ok
b) all our problems are due to bank debts and bank bailouts
c) that bailing out those in debt has no costs for the rest of us and would in fact make everything alright again
c) and that there is a mythical chunk of jobs out there somewhere that would solve everything if people were only allowed move to them by being bailed out of their debt
I surrender.
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So in your world it is ok to run up massive debts, then if times get hard you walk away from them, leaving others to cover those debts and you get to start again the next day ?
Good luck with that. :rolleyes:
Never said that. But we'll end up covering them or do you think that they will ever pay them of - for the most part anyway.And comparing the housing bubble with the dot com buble is like comparing apples with spuds.
It is not the same bloody thing.
But the warnings were the same were they not?If you buy a house you are signing up for a 20 to 40 year committment.
You are signing a contract that you will repay someone the money you borrowed.
Only applicable if you have the promise of a 40 year ever increasing income with no cuts.Why not just say that everyone who lived here owes those that made bad economic decisions ?
Sure my kids can help pay for those decisions as well. :mad:
It is bad enough they are already going to be paying for banks, regulators, government you now wnat them to pay for every eejit who thought a 100% mortgage with their credit card debt rolled in was a mighty idea. :mad:
Your kids (and mine are on the hook) do you not see that getting these people back to work and paying their taxes might alleviate the problem.
There are some jobs - the problem is that people are now on the SW and afraid to take them as the wages are lower and they lose benefits, such as RA, medical cards etc,.Take up what employment ?
Do you think that what is holding back the country is the fact some people are in negative equity and can't move somewhere else to jobs ?You do know that making more bad decisions doesn't cancel out existing bad decisions ?
BTW my pension lost money so where is my bailout ? :rolleyes:
The same place a lot of peoples deposits (yes some got 100% mortgages, not a whole lot though), the same place as a lot of peoples repayments on mortgages for homes that are now worth 50% less than what they paid. Gone.Ehh we have to cut budgets not because the banks were bailed out but becuase we were overspending !!!!
You do realise that our expenditure was about 20 billion more than our tax take and that is before we ever factor in the bank bailout costs.
And how do we do this? It's not all about cutting - it's about growth, it's about raising the tax income - how do we do that if people can't come off the SW? How do we do this if the demand on SW isn't curtailed? How do we get growth? How do we create demand when those who can still pay haven't a bean to buy in the shops?Why would he be forced on the dole by paying his debts ?
WTF ?
By start again what do you mean ?
Because he's being supported by the SW who are paying his MIS. If he tried to get a job at the newer, more realistic rates, then he won't be able to repay the debt. He'll opt for bankruptcy when the law changes - and that means he won't pay any of it back, he may then leave and not contribute to this society.Do you think that the person who went out and made a reckless borrowing committment, did not repay it and dumped it on the rest of us should immediately be allowed just walk away without any financial implications ?
What about the banks who made a reckless borrowing commitment - why the different treatment for them?
In order for the banks to start again they had to write down their own debt - it's the same for the man on the street - he will not be able to start again if he is forced to repay a debt that he took out when he was working.
And yes people are stuck in the commuter belt away from where a lot of jobs are available, they cannot sell, they cannot afford to commute, they cannot rent out their properties. It is a problem.They should be fooking working anyway.
What the hell is it with this thing about people who are in debt are not capable of working ?
Who said that? the biggest obstacle for a lot of people is that they are now in the SW trap. I know a couple relocating back to Ireland and both have gotten jobs paying 24k - they've rented an apartment for 600pm and can manage ok on that money - ask someone on the dole, claiming RA, medical card if it would pay them to work for that money> I can tell you the answer.Basically everyone deserves a bailout in your world.
Sweet if you are the one getting the bailout, not so nice if you are one paying for it. :rolleyes:
Don't be trite - that's not what I mean. We are paying for it - between people staying longer on SW/people leaving this country and those left paying higher taxes/rising cost of living - what do you foresee?Yes it is bad that some people are over burdened with debt, but deciding to dump all that on others is not fair and will have a knock on affect.
What do you think the additional costs others will have to bear will do to their spending power ?
it will be dumped on us sooner or later - either by defaulters, bankruptcy, write downs that are already happening on a small scale - we are paying the price already.So do you think if we bailout all those who as you put it bought in the sticks and let them move that they will magically find jobs and everything will be hunky dory ?
Sorry to burst your little bubble but there aren't the jobs anywhere in this country.
Most of those who are stuck in the sticks worked in construction related jobs and there aren't any of those in Ireland.
Ah but shure we will bail them out so that they can emigrate with a clean slate.
Ans sorry to burst yours but there are - they just can't compete with out SW system.Hmmm I wonder if some of those naysayers leading this little crusade have large mortgages hangin over their heads and are hoping to benefit from such bailouts ? :rolleyes:
And that makes them wrong - please.I am out of this discussion because you appear to think that
a) walking away from your debts with no financial implications is ok
b) all our problems are due to bank debts and bank bailouts
c) that bailing out those in debt has no costs for the rest of us and would in fact make everything alright again
c) and that there is a mythical chunk of jobs out there somewhere that would solve everything if people were only allowed move to them by being bailed out of their debt
I surrender.
A) I never said that - that's your narrow-minded assessment.
I never said that either. We have a deficit - how do you suppose we'll cut it with no growth?
C)Never said that either. I have explained my reasons to you, if you don't want to hear then fine.
D) The myth is that there are NO jobs.
Off you toddle jmayo - I'm sure this discussion will arise again, probably when the real mortgage problem rears it's head and people are defaulting left right and center - of course like the last government they'll screw it up by going into crisis mode and making knee-jerk decisions.
We got everything else wrong - why break the habit of a lifetime eh....0 -
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