De Facto Relationships Ireland

FalconXV · 31-03-2012 12:55am

Hello All,

I am an American currently living in Ireland and working towards a PhD. My Irish partner and I will be eligible to apply for the de facto visa in a couple months. I'd rather be working than studying, but does anyone know if it is possible to continue the PhD while on the de facto visa? I'd hate to lose my student visa and not be able to find a good job.

Thanks for the advice.

In this instance you would need advice from your local immigration gard and the GNIB. I can't remember what it said in the Stamp 4 letter in regards to taking up or continuing studies. A student visa would normally entitle you to 20 hours a week work maximum. If I was to do a course I would seek advice from the officials. In this economic climate I wouldn't pin your hopes on getting a good job. Having any job is an achievement.

SEEMagazine wrote: »

I've had dealings with the DoJ in the past over issues which have some similarity to the OPs post. I can't say that I was overly encouraged by the speed with which they did anything.

Myself and my fiancee will not be getting married until after Croatia join the EU because I have no wish to explain anything to them to my own Govt...

Of course I face the same problems here as she would there. I'm 'legal' for the time being but the paperwork is convoluted to say the least.

In this case regarding Croatia joining the EU I wouldn't be waiting for that. I haven't heard anything about them or Turkey joining in the next couple of years. Even if Croatia join I don't know if it would full rights or restricted like Romania and Bulgaria in regards to movements within the EU. I am pretty sure being in Ireland for 3 years on a stamp 4 as a spouse will entitle you to apply for Irish citizenship (which will let you apply for a Irish passport). I just have over 2 and a half years before I can apply and that is my aim so I don't have to deal with the GNIB again and will entitle me to work in the UK if I wasn't able to get work here.

Louise66 · 20-11-2012 9:40pm

Hi all!

Im just wondering what happens if you apply on the grounds of a De Facto relationship and you break up...Not planning to but just looking into everything. Is this the same as a civil partnership in the eyes of immigration?

FalconXV · 21-11-2012 2:19am

Louise66 wrote: »

Hi all!

Im just wondering what happens if you apply on the grounds of a De Facto relationship and you break up...Not planning to but just looking into everything. Is this the same as a civil partnership in the eyes of immigration?

There is a blurb on the GNIB/INIS website about it. You are in a spot of difficulty when your visa expires.

pontia · 21-11-2012 2:40am

is this a spoof ?

FalconXV · 21-11-2012 2:52am

Nope read the website. It's a dog's breakfast of a site but it mentions in regards to separation. http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278

De Facto Relationships

All non-EEA nationals need permission to remain in the State. Permission to remain will be in the form of an endorsement in your passport confirming the conditions and period of time for which you have permission to remain in the State.
De Facto Relationships with an Irish National

Non EEA nationals who wish to remain the State and are in a de facto relationship with an Irish National must be in a position to provide evidence of a durable attested relationship of at least 2 years. The following documents must be provided to General Immigration, INIS, 13-14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2
Copies of current passports of both parties.
Evidence of finances of both parties
Evidence of relationship of at least 2 years duration (i.e. tenancy agreement, utility bills, bank statements, etc)

Subject to the immigration status of the non EEA national permission to remain may granted. This permission will exempt the non EEA National form work permit condition.
The above is not an exhaustive list, and you may be asked for additional documentation in support of your application
De Facto Relationship with non EEA National

Non EEA nationals who wish to remain the State and are in a de-facto relationship with a non EEA national must be in a position to provide evidence of a durable attested relationship of at least 4 years. The following documents must be provided to their General Immigration, INIS, 13-14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2.
Copies of current passports of both parties.
Evidence of finances of both parties
Evidence of relationship of at least 4 years duration (i.e. tenancy agreement, utility bills, bank statements, etc)
History of activities of both parties in the State
Subject to the immigration status of the non EEA national applicant permission to remain may granted.
Should permission to remain be granted on this basis, it does not exempt the person from work permit requirements. In order to take up employment in the State, the non EEA national must be in possession of a valid work permit/green card.
When applying for a work permit/Green Card permit to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation the non-EEA national must enclose the letter issued by the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service confirming the immigration status based on the partnership.
The above is not an exhaustive list, and you may be asked for additional documentation in support of your application.
What can I do if I have an existing Deportation Order?

Applications from persons with an existing Deportation Order will not be considered. Any applicant who is the subject of a Deportation Order and who wishes to make an application for revocation of the Deportation Order on the basis of their relationship to an Irish national or a non-EEA national, pursuant to Section 3(11) of the Immigration Act, 1999, should send their application to the Repatriation Section at the address below.
Acknowledgement Unit,
Repatriation Section,
Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service,
13-14 Burgh Quay,
Dublin 2.

How long will it take to process the application?
Applications can take up to 12 months to process. Applications are dealt with in strict chronological order of receipt.
Can I enter employment while my application is in process?
No. An applicant has no entitlement to enter employment during the application process without the requirement of a Work Permit issued by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation.
How can I contact the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service regarding the status of my application?
Queries can be made by post. Contact details are listed below.
De Facto Applications,
3rd Floor,
Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service,
13-14 Burgh Quay,
Dublin 2.

What happens if my application is approved?
Successful applicants may be granted permission to reside in the State for an initial period of 12 months.
The applicant and his/her Irish national or non- EEA national partner will be required to attend at their local Registration Office to be registered as resident in the State on the basis of being the partner of an Irish National or a non-EEA national.
Details in respect of registration and renewal of registration will be provided in correspondence issued by the Defacto Section.
What are the conditions of my permission granted?
The permission is granted on the basis of genuine evidence of a valid and genuine relationship.
Any misinformation given during the application process will result in the application being refused.
Applicants must be of good character and be in compliance with Irish Law.
There are no rights of retention of residence in the event of separation.
Successful applicants do not have an automatic right to family reunification.

pontia · 21-11-2012 2:57am

if your non eu or even eu that cant offer something we cant source in ireland ie special skills that we need theres no reason to let you in.its not a revolving door.its not accepted anywhere else.shouldent be here

FalconXV · 21-11-2012 3:01am

pontia wrote: »

if your non eu or even eu that cant offer something we cant source in ireland ie special skills that we need theres no reason to let you in.its not a revolving door.its not accepted anywhere else.shouldent be here

That's a completely different visa and nothing to do with defacto relationships. We are discussing permission to remain on the basis of a relationship. If you were applying on a work skills basis you would need to get a green card or work permit. I looked in to sponsorship from my employer when I first got refused and it's difficult to obtain.

pontia · 21-11-2012 3:03am

very much open to scams and fraud,

FalconXV · 21-11-2012 3:18am

Not really it's not like the UK and other visas. Immigration offices are very local and they know who isn't playing by the book (I have been to the immi gard just after they have handed out deportation notices). The permission to remain allows you to work but it's not an official work permit visa and only runs for a year. Plus you have to be in the country to apply. The GNIB take their time in making a decision (can take months) and there is no fee to apply so it isn't a money making racket for the Government.

On the topic of scams this was posted on their website.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Visa%20Scam

LoGiE · 26-11-2012 11:40am

Just thought I'd post this info. The cost of a Stamp 4 has doubled since last Monday. It now costs €300.00 and they will take your fingerprints. Of course there are no signs/notifications whatsoever so the first you'll hear about it is when they ask for your debit card.

I wonder if they'll use the extra cash to improve the service... :rolleyes:

FalconXV · 26-11-2012 12:08pm

LoGiE wrote: »

Just thought I'd post this info. The cost of a Stamp 4 has doubled since last Monday. It now costs €300.00 and they will take your fingerprints. Of course there are no signs/notifications whatsoever so the first you'll hear about it is when they ask for your debit card.

I wonder if they'll use the extra cash to improve the service... :rolleyes:

Lucky I got mine last month, they always take my prints. Incidentally I used my tax refund money to pay for the reg. Getting money back from the gov and giving it back to them. 300 is a bit steep for a one year visa and further enforces my option of going for dual citizenship in a couple of years time. That's one advantage of being Australian rather then from the US (don't you lose your US citizenship if you become a citizen of another country?).

keithclancy · 26-11-2012 4:57pm

FalconXV wrote: »

Lucky I got mine last month, they always take my prints. Incidentally I used my tax refund money to pay for the reg. Getting money back from the gov and giving it back to them. 300 is a bit steep for a one year visa and further enforces my option of going for dual citizenship in a couple of years time. That's one advantage of being Australian rather then from the US (don't you lose your US citizenship if you become a citizen of another country?).

I don't think so, I do know somebody personally that has an Irish and US Passport.

Handy when you want to skip the non eu queue.

atkin · 03-01-2013 12:06pm

I am applying initially for a tourist visa for my Filipino boyfriend .The relationship has existed for 3 years.
I got a file from the Irish embassy in Manila about applying for a visa.
They disregard phone messages ,e mails and chat messages . I wonder does this apply to all applicaions
or just in the philippines.?
See Below

3. SPOUSE OF or VISITOR SPONSORED BY IRISH/ EU CITIZEN
• Passport or other proof of EU citizenship of Irish/EU spouse
• ACR card or Visa if EU/Irish sponsor is resident in the Philippines
• Marriage Certificate and(if applicable) a notarized English translation
• Letter of Invitation and Affidavit of Support from Spouse
• A Detailed account as to how the Irish/EU citizen met the applicant
• Evidence showing relationship history ie. stamps on passport showing trips to the Philippines , pictures together, etc. (phone records, emails, chats, sms/text, not applicable)
• Evidence that the Irish/EU citizen has sufficient funds to maintain their spouse. ie. Payslips, bank statements (6mos.), latest P60 or other tax document
• Certificate of Employment of Irish/EU spouse, or evidence of business
• Details of Irish/EU citizen’s accommodation in the State.

The EU spouse’s birth certificate must also be presented in case of discrepancy between the passport and marriage certificate.

FalconXV · 04-01-2013 4:30pm

atkin wrote: »

I am applying initially for a tourist visa for my Filipino boyfriend .The relationship has existed for 3 years.
I got a file from the Irish embassy in Manila about applying for a visa.
They disregard phone messages ,e mails and chat messages . I wonder does this apply to all applicaions
or just in the philippines.?
See Below

3. SPOUSE OF or VISITOR SPONSORED BY IRISH/ EU CITIZEN
• Passport or other proof of EU citizenship of Irish/EU spouse
• ACR card or Visa if EU/Irish sponsor is resident in the Philippines
• Marriage Certificate and(if applicable) a notarized English translation
• Letter of Invitation and Affidavit of Support from Spouse
• A Detailed account as to how the Irish/EU citizen met the applicant
• Evidence showing relationship history ie. stamps on passport showing trips to the Philippines , pictures together, etc. (phone records, emails, chats, sms/text, not applicable)
• Evidence that the Irish/EU citizen has sufficient funds to maintain their spouse. ie. Payslips, bank statements (6mos.), latest P60 or other tax document
• Certificate of Employment of Irish/EU spouse, or evidence of business
• Details of Irish/EU citizen’s accommodation in the State.

The EU spouse’s birth certificate must also be presented in case of discrepancy between the passport and marriage certificate.

If you aren't married and hoping from him to live and work in Ireland you should be applying for the defacto permission to remain which you need to be in the country to apply for.

Dr. Greenthumb · 04-01-2013 7:52pm

Hi,

I'm wondering can someone shed some light on what options my wife and I have. I'm Irish, my wife is Filipino and we have a daughter (dual citizen).

We currently reside outside of Ireland and are trying to find out what our options are for a visitor visa for my wife. She has been to Ireland twice, probably 4 months there in total. What we want to find out, is there any multiple entry visa for a non EEA spouse that would last for a year or multiple years so we don't have to apply everytime we want to go to Ireland?

It can be quite frustrating if you have to go back to Ireland in the case of an emergency and my wife can't come because there is an 8 week process to get a visa.

atkin · 06-01-2013 1:45pm

Yes there is a multiple entry visa you pay more .See http://www.inis.gov.ie
The fee is wavered if you married her in Ireland.

chelsey2a · 08-01-2013 1:54pm

Hello! I have been dating an Irish citizen for three years in April. I am from Florida originally and we met in England at a concert and continued our relationship online for the first year and a half. In January of last year I came over to Ireland on a holiday visa for a year so I could be with my boyfriend, the job I had was as a live-in au pair so we did not live together. However earlier last year we were advised by immigration to go ahead and apply for the de facto so I could stay in the country. We applied at the end of September and are still waiting to hear back. Just before Christmas we went to immigration to try and find out about the status of our visa because my current visa expires on the 19th of this month but we were just told that it should not take any longer than four months and that I did not have to leave the country when my visa expires as we have this visa pending. The lady at immigration did say that it was a good sign that we hadn't heard anything yet because usually people who are denied hear back pretty quick. My concern is is that I can't go looking for work or anything until we find out for sure about the visa. I just would like to hear from anyone who is gone through this in the past. How long did you wait? If you were denied how easy is it to get the stamp three instead? We were also told of an appeal process if we are denied and I would like to hear from anyone who may have had to appeal. Thanks!

atkin · 08-01-2013 2:09pm

Try http://www.mrci.ie/contact-us/

http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/ They give better advice than a solicitor.

chelsey2a · 08-01-2013 2:43pm

Thanks, will do!

adublinguy · 09-01-2013 9:58pm

chelsey2a wrote: »

Hello! I have been dating an Irish citizen for three years in April. I am from Florida originally and we met in England at a concert and continued our relationship online for the first year and a half. In January of last year I came over to Ireland on a holiday visa for a year so I could be with my boyfriend, the job I had was as a live-in au pair so we did not live together. However earlier last year we were advised by immigration to go ahead and apply for the de facto so I could stay in the country. We applied at the end of September and are still waiting to hear back. Just before Christmas we went to immigration to try and find out about the status of our visa because my current visa expires on the 19th of this month but we were just told that it should not take any longer than four months and that I did not have to leave the country when my visa expires as we have this visa pending. The lady at immigration did say that it was a good sign that we hadn't heard anything yet because usually people who are denied hear back pretty quick. My concern is is that I can't go looking for work or anything until we find out for sure about the visa. I just would like to hear from anyone who is gone through this in the past. How long did you wait? If you were denied how easy is it to get the stamp three instead? We were also told of an appeal process if we are denied and I would like to hear from anyone who may have had to appeal. Thanks!

myself and my brasilian partner applied on october 11th for de facto..we got the confirmation letter a few days later

my partner was on a student visa when we applied, that expired on december 18th, we visited immigration to see if we needed to extend it while we were waiting to hear about our application, but we were told it wasnt necessary to do this while the decision was pending. Guy behind the counter told us that they were waiting for a garda report and it "should go though"...which i then asked "is that a yes then" and he backtracked slightly..so hopefully it was a good sign

my partner is 6 months pregnant so having this hanging over our heads is not ideal...but im optimistic.

so all in all we have been waiting 3 months.

good luck!

adublinguy · 09-01-2013 10:00pm

pontia wrote: »

very much open to scams and fraud,

i would actually think marriage would be a more widely used option for scams. de facto asks for a lot more information when applying

chelsey2a · 10-01-2013 1:51pm

Hi, Dublinguy! We seem to be in the same boat, I hope we find out soon, I am pretty positive we will get it because it is so close to when I was supposed to go back to America that if we weren't going to get it I would think we would have been given a no by now. But can't be positive so it does suck not being able to look for work or anything until we know for sure, Good luck to you too!

atkin · 14-01-2013 2:55pm

battries not included wrote: »

depending where you live they (immigration officers) can be very helpful in this matter, i speak from personal experience.

send in everything

1) Cover letter explaining the relationship, length of time together, photos, e-mails, future plans, letter and contact details from friends who know you both personally and may receive a call or letter asking to confirm this

2) Work/college references would also help

3) A letter or statement from a person of good character in your community whom you may call upon as a personal referee would help.

4) Show ALL financial statements, BANK/SOCIAL WELFARE/ LOANS/ etc.., i know it is intrusive but they need to weed out people looking to make money out of stamp 4 , again if you honest, no problems

Garda National Immigration Bureau
The Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) carries out deportations, border control and investigations relating to illegal immigration and human trafficking.

GNIB is based at 13/14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2. It is headed by a Detective Chief Superintendent with a Garda Staff of 2 Detective Superintendents, 4 Detective Inspectors, 24 Detective Sergeants and 180 Detective Gardaí and Gardaí. They are supported by 68 civilian staff.

Registration

All non-nationals who are not citizens of a member State of the European Union, the European Economic Area or Switzerland, must register with An Garda Síochána and at all times have a valid registration certificate in the form of a GNIB Card. The fee for this card is €150 and must be paid by credit card, laser card or bank giro. This fee cannot be paid by cash. You can download an information leaflet about the fees and methods of payment in the Fees Information panel on the right hand side of this page.

If you are residing in the Dublin Metropolitan Region you must register at the GNIB offices at 13/14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2. The registration desk opening hours are:

Monday to Thursday 8.00am to 10.00pm
Friday 8.00am to 4.00pm.
Students will not be registered before 9.00am.

Procedure for renewing your GNIB Card:

Are you residing in the Dublin area?

Renew your card at GNIB, 13/14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2.

Tel: +353 1 666 9100/1

E-mail: gnib_dv@garda.ie

Are you residing outside the Dublin area?

Renew your card at your local Garda Síochána District Headquarters Station. To find out where your District Headquarters Station is, contact your local Garda Station.

You can also register at Blessington Garda Station, Co. Wicklow and Maynooth Garda Station, Co. Kildare.

Hi,
I am Irish and making an application for a Filipino to visit Ireland.We are in a relationship for almost 3 years.
The embassy have said that e mails ,phone records and letters are no longer acceptable. My partner has not got a job in the Philippines so they will refuse as he has no reason to return there.
I of course suggested that he get an exit stamp on the visa to show he has returned .Not acceptable. I think Ireland is one of a few countries in the world that has no exit stamp on the passports.
Likewise is you want to marry the immigration status of the Non national is not checked.There is also no requirement for a letter of freedom to marry.They only want the birth cert authenticated.
I think such loopholes in the immigration law make it difficult for those who are honest.
You ever feel like to hell with the crap and get a fake passport !!!
That is what the rich and criminals do .

atkin · 14-01-2013 3:00pm

pontia wrote: »

if your non eu or even eu that cant offer something we cant source in ireland ie special skills that we need theres no reason to let you in.its not a revolving door.its not accepted anywhere else.shouldent be here

You can stay in many countries as an Irish citizen if you register and pay the visa extension fees. The difference is these countries do not have an open welfare system and have controls on you being employed there.
There are some on this website that find a stamp 3 visa unacceptable .This means you cannot claim welfare or work. There are no jobs why does someone want a stamp 4 to work??

atkin · 14-01-2013 3:03pm

adublinguy wrote: »

i would actually think marriage would be a more widely used option for scams. de facto asks for a lot more information when applying

There are some that only meet a foreign partner a few weeks and marry.They do refuse entry until a reasonable amount has passed.
There is 156 + same sex ceremonies performed since the law changed and after 1.5 years only 2 looked to end the relationship.
I wonder what this is for heterosexual marriages??

adublinguy · 14-01-2013 6:14pm

atkin wrote: »

You can stay in many countries as an Irish citizen if you register and pay the visa extension fees. The difference is these countries do not have an open welfare system and have controls on you being employed there.
There are some on this website that find a stamp 3 visa unacceptable .This means you cannot claim welfare or work. There are no jobs why does someone want a stamp 4 to work??

there are jobs in ireland. it depends on what work you do and what experience you have.plenty of work in IT atm..

atkin · 15-01-2013 12:07am

adublinguy wrote: »

there are jobs in ireland. it depends on what work you do and what experience you have.plenty of work in IT atm..

What about looking after our own, jobless .

FalconXV · 24-01-2013 6:22pm

chelsey2a wrote: »

Hello! I have been dating an Irish citizen for three years in April. I am from Florida originally and we met in England at a concert and continued our relationship online for the first year and a half. In January of last year I came over to Ireland on a holiday visa for a year so I could be with my boyfriend, the job I had was as a live-in au pair so we did not live together. However earlier last year we were advised by immigration to go ahead and apply for the de facto so I could stay in the country. We applied at the end of September and are still waiting to hear back. Just before Christmas we went to immigration to try and find out about the status of our visa because my current visa expires on the 19th of this month but we were just told that it should not take any longer than four months and that I did not have to leave the country when my visa expires as we have this visa pending. The lady at immigration did say that it was a good sign that we hadn't heard anything yet because usually people who are denied hear back pretty quick. My concern is is that I can't go looking for work or anything until we find out for sure about the visa. I just would like to hear from anyone who is gone through this in the past. How long did you wait? If you were denied how easy is it to get the stamp three instead? We were also told of an appeal process if we are denied and I would like to hear from anyone who may have had to appeal. Thanks!

I would go to your local TD's clinic with your partner. They are there to provide a link between the community and the government departments. We got an answer a week later after being in contact with them, that's from my experience to not get your hopes up. It's worth looking in to it as phoning the INIS is fruitless and they are reluctant to give out information over the phone.

FalconXV · 24-01-2013 6:29pm

''Hi,

I'm wondering can someone shed some light on what options my wife and I have. I'm Irish, my wife is Filipino and we have a daughter (dual citizen).

We currently reside outside of Ireland and are trying to find out what our options are for a visitor visa for my wife. She has been to Ireland twice, probably 4 months there in total. What we want to find out, is there any multiple entry visa for a non EEA spouse that would last for a year or multiple years so we don't have to apply everytime we want to go to Ireland?''

I am not sure what the rules about Stamp 3 are outside of the country but it gives you a GNIB card for as long as the Gards stamp it for to allow you to stay in the State as long as you don't seek employment.

chelsey2a · 31-01-2013 5:39pm

Thanks, there is a TD not far from where I am living with my boyfriend. We may go in next week because as of now we are still waiting and I am getting tired of being in limbo.

De Facto Relationships Ireland

Comments