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N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭touts


    It is open this morning. One lane only. Looking at the lane that was previosly closed and is still closed as I passed by I would say there are weeks if not months of work before it can open. They seemed to be still piling it and building it up. But at least it is open and the new bridge looks like it will be a lot wider than the old one.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Can you guys give me a gmaps link for the location of these works?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,464 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Can you guys give me a gmaps link for the location of these works?

    http://goo.gl/maps/zwjEl


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭Boscoirl


    2 months on from the bridge reopening, anyone have any more information on when we will be back up to 2 lanes? My driving habits have changed recently, and I am now hitting Oola at peak hours and along with the other road works on the Waterford side of Tipp town, time spent waiting at traffic lights is adding up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Magnum


    Boscoirl wrote: »
    2 months on from the bridge reopening, anyone have any more information on when we will be back up to 2 lanes? My driving habits have changed recently, and I am now hitting Oola at peak hours and along with the other road works on the Waterford side of Tipp town, time spent waiting at traffic lights is adding up.

    The road/bridge is back open to two lanes of traffic since last week.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭Boscoirl


    Thanks, of course it opens the week I don't use the road :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Another two unfortunate souls lost their lives on this death trap road. RIP;

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-people-killed-in-morning-road-collision-30668740.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭DaveJac


    road_high wrote: »
    Another two unfortunate souls lost their lives on this death trap road. RIP;

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-people-killed-in-morning-road-collision-30668740.html

    wouldnt call it a death trap road, i dont think the road had anything to do with the crash this morning im afraid


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    DaveJac wrote: »
    wouldnt call it a death trap road, i dont think the road had anything to do with the crash this morning im afraid

    Without knowing the specifics, I can safely think if it was DC, there wouldn't have been a collision.

    Too late for that sh1t now though. Another death indirectly caused by the greed and poor planning decisions of the boom. RIP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭touts


    I don't know what happened in this case but in general the volume of traffic on that road far outstrips the capacity of the road and safety suffers as a result. It is so bendy and winding that people get frustrated and take chances on the few overtaking opportunities that exist. I frequently travel that road and I have to say I see a much higher number of insane risks than on any other road. I regularly see large trucks on the wrong side of the road overtaking a slower moving truck on stretches of straight road that it would normally be tight to get a fast car past a slow car. People get hugely frustrated on that whole road. Now is it the fault of the people or the fault of the road. Probably a bit of both. Personally I allow for an average speed of 80kph for my journey on that road. So if I need to be somewhere by a set time I plan a journey time based on that average and I'm rarely too far wrong. That is an average speed much lower than I use for planning my journeys on any other road. Yet it is necessary on the N24. There is no point in taking a chance to overtake a slow car/truck because the volume of traffic is such that there is a constant stream of traffic coming against you so any "gap" is usually much smaller than you think and even if you do get around the slow vehicle you will just end up behind something else in a couple of minutes. Someone who didn't know the road and assumed an N road would mean an average closer to 100kph might well become impatient and frustrated and end up taking risks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,338 ✭✭✭cml387


    touts wrote: »
    I don't know what happened in this case but in general the volume of traffic on that road far outstrips the capacity of the road and safety suffers as a result. It is so bendy and winding that people get frustrated and take chances on the few overtaking opportunities that exist. I frequently travel that road and I have to say I see a much higher number of insane risks than on any other road. I regularly see large trucks on the wrong side of the road overtaking a slower moving truck on stretches of straight road that it would normally be tight to get a fast car past a slow car. People get hugely frustrated on that whole road. Now is it the fault of the people or the fault of the road. Probably a bit of both. Personally I allow for an average speed of 80kph for my journey on that road. So if I need to be somewhere by a set time I plan a journey time based on that average and I'm rarely too far wrong. That is an average speed much lower than I use for planning my journeys on any other road. Yet it is necessary on the N24. There is no point in taking a chance to overtake a slow car/truck because the volume of traffic is such that there is a constant stream of traffic coming against you so any "gap" is usually much smaller than you think and even if you do get around the slow vehicle you will just end up behind something else in a couple of minutes. Someone who didn't know the road and assumed an N road would mean an average closer to 100kph might well become impatient and frustrated and end up taking risks.
    Exactly. There are a certain number of straight bits ,the stretch outside the racecourse is the first after winding your way out of Tipperary, some straights between Bansha and Cahir, and one stretch after Monard and that's about it until the road improvements nearer Limerick.
    What may have exarcerbated this was the road marking work in progress between Cahir and Bansha that was causing huge tailbacks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    touts wrote: »
    I don't know what happened in this case but in general the volume of traffic on that road far outstrips the capacity of the road and safety suffers as a result. It is so bendy and winding that people get frustrated and take chances on the few overtaking opportunities that exist. I frequently travel that road and I have to say I see a much higher number of insane risks than on any other road. I regularly see large trucks on the wrong side of the road overtaking a slower moving truck on stretches of straight road that it would normally be tight to get a fast car past a slow car. People get hugely frustrated on that whole road. Now is it the fault of the people or the fault of the road. Probably a bit of both. Personally I allow for an average speed of 80kph for my journey on that road. So if I need to be somewhere by a set time I plan a journey time based on that average and I'm rarely too far wrong. That is an average speed much lower than I use for planning my journeys on any other road. Yet it is necessary on the N24. There is no point in taking a chance to overtake a slow car/truck because the volume of traffic is such that there is a constant stream of traffic coming against you so any "gap" is usually much smaller than you think and even if you do get around the slow vehicle you will just end up behind something else in a couple of minutes. Someone who didn't know the road and assumed an N road would mean an average closer to 100kph might well become impatient and frustrated and end up taking risks.

    Pretty much hits the nail on the head. Well said!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Long term, nothing less than 2+2 will suffice with this road. Sadly, it looks like it is way down on current priorities.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Too late for that sh1t now though. Another death indirectly caused by the greed and poor planning decisions of the boom. RIP.
    Bit harsh, no one has anything against the N24 per se, there were only a certain number of motorways we could get done in the time given and the busiest ones were prioritised.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    From the experience of people on this thread would you say Limerick-Cahir or Cahir-Waterford is more in need of improvement?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    spacetweek wrote: »
    From the experience of people on this thread would you say Limerick-Cahir or Cahir-Waterford is more in need of improvement?

    Definitely Limerick-Cahir. There are a few stretches closer to Waterford that are poor too, such as around Carrick-on-Suir and Mooncoin.

    The rest is OK-ish, though the long 60 km/h stretch around Clonmel with all its roundabouts is a real pain to drive, and apparently gets quite congested at rush hour (though I've never seen that myself).


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭touts


    spacetweek wrote: »
    From the experience of people on this thread would you say Limerick-Cahir or Cahir-Waterford is more in need of improvement?

    Without a shadow of a doubt it is Limeick to Cahir. I relax when I get to Cahir. It has a much better road with some 2-1 stretches around Cahir and Past Carrick. Coming out of Cahir towards Limerick are a series of bends that regularly see cars skidding off because they hit that stretch at 100kph and don't realise how bad the bends are. Before they get to slow down they are in the ditch. The council have resurfaced it several times to improve the grip but everything fails. For the last year or so they have had those Red and White temporary plastic barriers along the ditches to try and slow down cars before they hit the wall. But the only answer is to either bypass that stretch or buldoze the house on the bend and straighten the road. After that the road is ok to Bansha but with very few overtaking opportunities. The stretch into Bansha has seen a few fatal crashes as people try to avail of the first decent straight stretch in about 20 minutes in either direction. Bansha village is a 50kph which often has a Garda speed trap. Past Bansha you are into a wooded bseries of bends to Tipp town that are impossible to overtake on. The terrains is such that you couldn't straighten that stretch. A complete new road to the north is needed. There is a Go Safe speed camera Zone there but I doubt they ever catch anyone. It is impossible to do 100kph let alone speed. Tipp town is a notorious bottleneck as cars and trucks negotiate the narrow streets and traffic lights. Past Tipp town the road improves a bit it overtaking is still very difficult with short straight stretches and a constant stream of traffic. Several of the straight sections also have speed camera vans and Monard and Oola are known for hidden Garda camera vans. So basically you see locals slow down to less than the speed limit but that irritates drivers behind them who don't realise the limit is 50 and that unmarked van on the side of the road is quite possibly a Garda van. Oola to limerick pallasgreen is ok but limited overtaking options and the road narrows considerably at a couple of ageing railway bridges. If you meet a truck on a bridge you have no choice but to give way or go under the truck. There is not enough room for the two of you. Past Pallasgreen the road improves and within about 10km of Limerick it really widens out and becomes much safer. But again it is prone to speed cameras and Garda checkpoints so don't be tempted to break the speed limit. Many are and, rightly, get points.

    So personally I would upgrade Limerick to Cahir first and within that the Tipp town to Cahir section basically needs complete replacement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Is there somewhere to see details of upcoming roadworks? I've seen an electronic sign near Mooncoin (travelling west on the Waterford side of the village) signalling imminent road works, saying it will last until late 2015, so seems like it isn't a small job.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Services have opened along this route now in Tipp town, similar to the M7 Barack Obama Plaza, the Tipp Town Plaza.

    I'd imagine this wouldn't have gone ahead if Pallasgreen-Cahir has any chance of going ahead soon, especially with all the services already along this relatively low trafficed route


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭touts


    marno21 wrote: »
    Services have opened along this route now in Tipp town, similar to the M7 Barack Obama Plaza, the Tipp Town Plaza.

    I'd imagine this wouldn't have gone ahead if Pallasgreen-Cahir has any chance of going ahead soon, especially with all the services already along this relatively low trafficed route

    Pallasgreen Cahir and the whole N24 upgrade is basically dead. The N20/M20 was ahead of it and that got cancelled. We won't see any upgrade to the N24 for at least 15-20 years and that's plenty of time for a return on the investment on that filling station.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    touts wrote: »
    Pallasgreen Cahir and the whole N24 upgrade is basically dead. The N20/M20 was ahead of it and that got cancelled. We won't see any upgrade to the N24 for at least 15-20 years and that's plenty of time for a return on the investment on that filling station.

    I think that's really sad. Desperate road with a poor safety record. Infrastructure pays back in spades but sadly no one in this country seems to acknowledge that.
    Even if they borrowed a few billion at the low rates they're always banging on about and built a few key neglected projects like this, it would be money well spent in my view.


  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭The Megaphone


    The road isn't that bad, a few things:
    touts wrote: »
    The stretch into Bansha has seen a few fatal crashes as people try to avail of the first decent straight stretch in about 20 minutes in either direction.

    You're exaggerating, Bansha is 10 minutes from Cahir and less than 10 minutes from Tipp and there are loads of overtaking opportunities - how about on the far side of Kilmoyler on the approach to Tankerstown Cross?
    touts wrote: »
    Bansha village is a 50kph which often has a Garda speed trap.

    With the exception of Dromkeen (where a recent traffic calming scheme was completed), all towns and villages are posted at 50km/h
    touts wrote: »
    It is impossible to do 100kph let alone speed.

    Don't confuse the speed limit with the speed that a road can be safely traveled.
    touts wrote: »
    So basically you see locals slow down to less than the speed limit but that irritates drivers behind them who don't realise the limit is 50 and that unmarked van on the side of the road is quite possibly a Garda van.

    These speed limit zones are not a secret, they are sign posted!!
    touts wrote: »
    Oola to limerick pallasgreen is ok but limited overtaking options and the road narrows considerably at a couple of ageing railway bridges. If you meet a truck on a bridge you have no choice but to give way or go under the truck.

    A ridiculous statement, there is one narrow road over rail bridge between Oola and Pallasgreen at Ballyfookeen called Brooke's Bridge - I've seen two Artics negotiate it, and can't recall the last the time there was even a collision at this location.
    touts wrote: »
    So personally I would upgrade Limerick to Cahir first and within that the Tipp town to Cahir section basically needs complete replacement.

    I have to disagree, the Cahir to Clonmel section offers little to no overtaking sections and an outer ring road around Clonmel is badly needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,238 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    The road isn't that bad, a few things:



    You're exaggerating, Bansha is 10 minutes from Cahir and less than 10 minutes from Tipp and there are loads of overtaking opportunities - how about on the far side of Kilmoyler on the approach to Tankerstown Cross?

    There is 2 - the primary school just past the bridge where there was a near fatal accident last year and also the stretch near the car garage (I forget the name)

    Both of these stretches are not safe for overtaking though I find

    They road is tight enough too, so if it's a wide load you are behind, it is very awkward and unsafe. There is always tractors/trucks on the road daily too which makes the Limerick commute a tough one.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    callaway92 wrote: »
    There is 2 - the primary school just past the bridge where there was a near fatal accident last year and also the stretch near the car garage (I forget the name)

    Both of these stretches are not safe for overtaking though I find

    They road is tight enough too, so if it's a wide load you are behind, it is very awkward and unsafe. There is always tractors/trucks on the road daily too which makes the Limerick commute a tough one.

    Says enough tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭The Megaphone


    marno21 wrote: »
    Says enough tbh.

    Actually it says nothing into the cause of the accident - was driver behavior, vehicles condition, or the weather a factor?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Is it time to rip up the failed 2+1 pilot scheme on the Piltown bypass?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1202/835952-kilkenny-fatal-crash/


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    marno21 wrote: »
    Is it time to rip up the failed 2+1 pilot scheme on the Piltown bypass?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1202/835952-kilkenny-fatal-crash/

    Was it at a junction again? Fully upgrade the junction? I like the 2+1, it's just poorly executed. Far too many have died on this (good) road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Had a quick read through some of these posts and boy is it depressing.
    Many predicting years back nothing would happen until 2020. It's almost 2017 and I'd say tragically optimistic. Can't remember when I last seen any news or movement relating to any of the N24.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/227782/the-carnage-and-the-mayhem-must-stop.html

    Calls for a full safety audit on the N24 Piltown BP.

    Also raised in the Dail yesterday by Deputy John McGuinness

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2016-12-14a.434


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,078 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Only place that warrants a by-pass is Tipp town, it's the only place that's a nightmare to get through.

    The opening of the Tipp town plaza doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this will happen though.


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