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Gaming retailers blackmailing Steam

2

Comments

  • #32
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    Just to play Devils Advocate for a bit - don't you think that if there was any actual money to be made from PC games that the shops would still be giving them a reasonable chunk of shelf space? Running a shop is not easy and it most certainly is not cheap. You need to squeeze absolutely every penny possible and so a chunk of your very valuable shelving real-estate being taken up with a range of stock that has an audience who generally prefers to get it digitally (through means legal or otherwise) versus a bigger target audience of people who are more inclined towards impulse buys, well it's pretty much a no brainer.


  • #33
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    Shiminay wrote: »
    Just to play Devils Advocate for a bit - don't you think that if there was any actual money to be made from PC games that the shops would still be giving them a reasonable chunk of shelf space? Running a shop is not easy and it most certainly is not cheap. You need to squeeze absolutely every penny possible and so a chunk of your very valuable shelving real-estate being taken up with a range of stock that has an audience who generally prefers to get it digitally (through means legal or otherwise) versus a bigger target audience of people who are more inclined towards impulse buys, well it's pretty much a no brainer.

    If there isn't then why do these guys cars if Valve sell them online?


  • #34
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    If the companies don't adapt they should die out. Simple as. I don't see them doing well in the future, similar to renting dvds etc. Even they have started to adapt with monthly plans online for cheap, sending you out films. Blackmailing isn't the way, that just slows the death a bit, maybe. They have to change their operations. use this thing called the internet.


  • #35
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    If there isn't then why do these guys cars if Valve sell them online?

    because if the gamers cant get them online then obviously there is a lot of money to be made off them in shops, as the gamers have to go there. Currently they dont have to go there because they can easily get it online.


  • #36
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    If the companies don't adapt they should die out. Simple as. I don't see them doing well in the future, similar to renting dvds etc. Even they have started to adapt with monthly plans online for cheap, sending you out films. Blackmailing isn't the way, that just slows the death a bit, maybe. They have to change their operations. use this thing called the internet.

    Simple, isn't it ?
    You have the same in every other business: Adapt or disappear.


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  • #37
    Kiith
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    They are adapting, but because they've not done it quick enough, they'll use their (considerable) position of power to slow down or limit any potential competitors. I'm just surprised it's take Gamestop this long to go public about what has probably been happening for a while.


  • #38
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    gizmo wrote: »
    Hmm, seems you're correct, I always assumed they were the same entity due to the EB Games connection. Turns out EB UK is a separate entity whose only lasting connection to their parent is that they pay a 1% sales royalty to EB in the US who are in turn owned by Gamestop. :o

    Actually EB UK doesn't exist anymore. Potted version:

    There was Virgin Games Centres (UK & Ireland), they got bought by Future Zone (UK & Ireland), they got bought by Electronics Boutique (Worldwide), Electronics Boutique also bought GAME (UK & Ireland), Electronics Boutique (UK & Ireland), changed their name to GAME and bought themselves from Electronics Boutique (America & rest of world). The royalty stopped being paid a couple of years post emancipation.

    In the meantime, there was Gamesworld (Ireland), they got bought by Gamestop (Worldwide), who then bought Electronics Boutique (America and rest of world ie Sweden, Australia etc) and are now (Gamestop) the biggest worldwide video games retailer, still trading as Electronics Boutique in some territories. So GAME is a separate company, and the biggest European video game retailer.

    :D


  • #39
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    You should. How many Jobs will Stem create in Ireland? Feck all, and they have the potential to wipe out thousands.

    Ridiculous. As a consumer I am going to go for the lowest price I can get. It just so happens though for the vast majority of new releases Steam almost definitely won't be the cheapest going though.


  • #40
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Absolam wrote: »
    Actually EB UK doesn't exist anymore. Potted version:

    There was Virgin Games Centres (UK & Ireland), they got bought by Future Zone (UK & Ireland), they got bought by Electronics Boutique (Worldwide), Electronics Boutique also bought GAME (UK & Ireland), Electronics Boutique (UK & Ireland), changed their name to GAME and bought themselves from Electronics Boutique (America & rest of world). The royalty stopped being paid a couple of years post emancipation.

    In the meantime, there was Gamesworld (Ireland), they got bought by Gamestop (Worldwide), who then bought Electronics Boutique (America and rest of world ie Sweden, Australia etc) and are now (Gamestop) the biggest worldwide video games retailer, still trading as Electronics Boutique in some territories. So GAME is a separate company, and the biggest European video game retailer.

    :D
    iiiiiinteresting, thanks for that! I was trying to decipher the companies makeup via some press releases and wikipedia so it seems it's a bit out of date. :)


  • #41
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,480 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-29-modern-warfare-3-pc-to-use-steamworks

    Suck it Game.

    MW3 sold over steam and with lovely Steamworks in all PC copies of the game.


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  • #42
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,480 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    What I don't get,

    -Pre-Order at Gamestop: Pay Full Price, get a custom skin/DLC

    -Pre-Order on Steam: Get a 10% Discount and/or get a custom DLC

    Does Gamestop realize how ass-backwards it is?


  • #43
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,694 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    As a consumer, I am NOT going to buy the cheapest product.
    I AM going to buy the product that offers me the best SERVICES at a COMPETITIVE price.
    Currently, that is through Steam (auto-updates, universal chat, can share library on multiple PCs, etc)


  • #44
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,162 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Back in the day steam was on US prices, €50 games were $30 in some cases. Even with steams poxy new pricing regions 90% they're still cheaper, easier, and have better features(steam client). The only two places I buy games from nowadays are steam and Amazon(can be cheaper a couple of months post release).

    The problem is Bricks and Mortar stores have nothing to offer. They can never compete on price, and with games theres not much you can do in terms of service. They always offer disk protection for X extra, IF YOU WANT CUSTOMERS DO IT FOR FREE FFS. I cant scratch/lose a download.

    They'll all soon be gone, and I have zero problems with that.


  • #45
    wandatowell
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    I dont mind paying a wee bit extra for a game from a bricks and mortor shop,
    by and large PC games are not too expensive so im happy to pay the going rate,


    Now, if I can save say maybe 10+ euro buying by other means then I will


  • #46
    Burgo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Burgo


    Lethal_Bullet wrote: »
    Back in the day steam was on US prices, €50 games were $30 in some cases. Even with steams poxy new pricing regions 90% they're still cheaper, easier, and have better features(steam client). The only two places I buy games from nowadays are steam and Amazon(can be cheaper a couple of months post release).

    The problem is Bricks and Mortar stores have nothing to offer. They can never compete on price, and with games theres not much you can do in terms of service. They always offer disk protection for X extra, IF YOU WANT CUSTOMERS DO IT FOR FREE FFS. I cant scratch/lose a download.

    They'll all soon be gone, and I have zero problems with that.

    I'm sorry, but steam are not cheap at all, the only time i even bother to look in the steam store is when they have a sale on, to buy a game at any other time is crazy tbh. Like yourself i buy most of my games on amazon, and 9/10 they are cheaper than steam.

    brink on steam 49.99 on amazon 17
    witcher 2 on steam 49.99 on amazon 29
    deus ex on steam 49.99 on amazon 30
    for upcoming games;
    skyrim on steam 49.99 on amazon 32
    rage on steam 49.99 on amazon 29
    mw3 on steam 59.99 on amazon 40


  • #47
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,480 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Actually I get Brink for $10 on Amazon Prime - which I got 6 months of for free because I'm a student :)

    That is admittedly a hell of a difference in price from $50 on Steam. Which can then be activated on steam.

    as for the other titles you mentioned I don't get them much better on Amazon. Deus Ex? I get a $0.03 discount from Steam!


  • #48
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,738 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    For me as a consumer i like having choice. I don't want anyone to have a monopoly on any market. I want steam, and online retailers as well as bricks and mortar stores. Sometimes i like just going into a shop and looking at the boxes.


  • #49
    death1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭death1234567


    Grumpypants wrote: »
    I want steam, and online retailers as well as bricks and mortar stores. Sometimes i like just going into a shop and looking at the boxes.
    Prepare to be disappointed. Digital distribution is the future for all video games. Its a case of when not if it becomes the only option. My guess, in 10 years the DVD box will be gone the way of betamax... And we'll all live in cities on the moon...


  • #50
    Kinetic^
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭Kinetic^


    Who the hell wants to trapse to the nearest retail unit on a cold winters day when I can just buy it online with Steam from the comfort of my home? If the games are not available in store, it'll force more people to sign up to steam. Gamers don't care how they get the games.


  • #51
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Overheal wrote: »
    What I don't get,

    -Pre-Order at Gamestop: Pay Full Price, get a custom skin/DLC

    -Pre-Order on Steam: Get a 10% Discount and/or get a custom DLC

    Does Gamestop realize how ass-backwards it is?
    I was recently forced to pre-order a game (Assassins Creed: Revelations CE) from Gamestop and the fact that I had to pay in full up front annoyed me no end. On the other hand, even with the 10% pre-order discount on Steam it'll still be a decent bit more expensive than online stores so I wouldn't regard it as particularly good value for money, value of the Steam service aside of course.
    Kinetic^ wrote: »
    Who the hell wants to trapse to the nearest retail unit on a cold winters day when I can just buy it online with Steam from the comfort of my home? If the games are not available in store, it'll force more people to sign up to steam. Gamers don't care how they get the games.
    Or they could buy it online from a store and have it either the day it's released or before then? They may also like having a physical copy of the game on their shelves, like me. So yea, plenty of gamers do care about how they get their games. :)


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  • #52
    Sin_J
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭Sin_J


    The problem with the brick and mortar stores is lack of selection, as has been said. They are usually fine for new releases, but crap for older stuff. Which has been this way for along time in ireland but in the UK they still have shops that sell second hand and retro pc games. Not sure if it's still the same now, but game station in Birmingham was an awesome shop. upstairs was all of the new stuff, consoles and handhelds. the downstairs was all classic consoles and pc games. All the old lucasarts titles, wingcommanders, mechwarriors, every westwood game etc.

    They had all of the old games, i never would have been able to pick up in a mainstream store in Ireland and it was awesome. If Game or Gamestop, want to get pc game sales, then they need to actually look at the classic games that people still play and stick that, rather than the sims expansions and sherlock homes mysteries, or random crappy flight simulator.


  • #53
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    The real trick to effectively managing stock and making sure you aren't left with 100 copies of some crappy Sims expansion or whatever is knowing the market and your audience and these are skills that retailers in Ireland have lost their way in somewhat. It's more a case of "who'll work for the lowest amount" rather than "who's worth paying for?" and I can sympathise with retailers as wage costs in Ireland are sky high.

    I can only think of 1 really good salesman that I've dealt with in the last few years that I thought "yea, there'a guy who knows his stock, his business and how to give a customer what they're looking for" and all I was doing was buying a backpack that could carry my 17" laptop - more difficult than you'd think to find a backpack big enough.


  • #54
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Shiminay wrote: »
    The real trick to effectively managing stock and making sure you aren't left with 100 copies of some crappy Sims expansion or whatever is knowing the market and your audience and these are skills that retailers in Ireland have lost their way in somewhat. It's more a case of "who'll work for the lowest amount" rather than "who's worth paying for?" and I can sympathise with retailers as wage costs in Ireland are sky high.

    I can only think of 1 really good salesman that I've dealt with in the last few years that I thought "yea, there'a guy who knows his stock, his business and how to give a customer what they're looking for" and all I was doing was buying a backpack that could carry my 17" laptop - more difficult than you'd think to find a backpack big enough.

    Yeah, unfortunately in THE CURRENT CLIMATE retailers are forced to go cheap and cheerful with their staff and the high turnaround which is inevitable leads to low product knowledge.

    This thread made me laugh a little I have to say, big business A tries to bury big business B and everyone gets righteously indignant for big business B.

    This stuff goes on all the time, everywhere. Do you not think Pepsi would kill to have the power to force coca cola off the shelves?

    Should big business A stop trying to compete whatever way they can find because everyone likes B more?

    Of course, I am over simplifying too, yes, they are taking the approach of killing the competition instead of adapting, but then again they're probably doing both and just stalling for time.

    One thing I really, really hate in threads like this (and this doesn't apply to gaming in particular, I'm not picking on anyone here) is how very short sited people may be.

    People gloating about the decline of bricks and mortar stores... wanting them to go bust because they don't give ME a cheaper price. That's people out of jobs you're smiling about, potentially it's families with no money for food, or to buy school books. It's more downtrodden on the dole who don't want to be there.

    So while yes the b + m stores need to adapt or die, perhaps we should think of the consequences of the sorry mess instead of going HAHAHA when it happens.


  • #55
    Gunmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    Overheal wrote: »
    What I don't get,

    -Pre-Order at Gamestop: Pay Full Price, get a custom skin/DLC

    -Pre-Order on Steam: Get a 10% Discount and/or get a custom DLC

    Does Gamestop realize how ass-backwards it is?

    But a 10% discount doesnt help much when the game sells for around 130%+, while its 100% in Gamestop/GAME. Well thats assuming the RRP of a new PC game is about €10 less than a console game, otherwise stores like GAME, Gamestop and HMV have been gouging themselves on PC games for YEARS before Steam came along.

    Gotta agree with Burgo, Steam is a great social hub and place for sale games, but no way in hell any sane person would purchase full price games there when prices are pushing 50% less in a B&M store. And they sell
    Sin_J wrote: »
    the sims expansions and sherlock homes mysteries, or random crappy flight simulator
    games because people buy them, since when they stocked the "real games" years ago nobody bought them as they went online chasing cheaper prices (which a B&M store cant match due to the operating costs of an online store vs B&M). So your complaining that a store went the route of putting "casual game" stock on their shelves that would sell rather than sit gathering dust like the "hardcore games".......:confused:


  • #56
    Sin_J
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭Sin_J


    Gunmonkey wrote: »
    So your complaining that a store went the route of putting "casual game" stock on their shelves that would sell rather than sit gathering dust like the "hardcore games".......:confused:

    It's no problem that those games are there, but it's the fact that those are the majority of games there is the problem. The older "hardcore" as you call them games aren't in any great selection. And you can't even get them ordered in, so people go online.


  • #57
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,795 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Maybe someone said it before me, but i was brought up in 56k dial-up land. I didn't know about (as in, couldn't take part in) online gaming until i moved to Waterford City 3 1/2 years ago. I suddenly had a 25mbps fibre optic line. Fannytastic.

    I recently (2 years ago) bought a house and the house can't get fibre optic yet (stupid, stupid oversight on my behalf) so i have a fairly decent 7mb connection with imagine. However, i don't intend on staying here indefinitely, i want to build in the country, and i can guarantee that even within 10 years i'll be lucky to get 7mb out there.

    So, basically, after the long rant, my point is that without the bricks and mortar stores i don't have a great choice, because i'll either be restricted by slow speeds or download limits (with the amount of games i buy i'd need an actual no limit line rather than a "no-limit-except-when-you-go-over-the-hidden-limit" limit).


  • #58
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Surely the matter of preventing other people from selling games in anti-competitive in the legal sense?


  • #59
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,480 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Grumpypants wrote: »
    For me as a consumer i like having choice. I don't want anyone to have a monopoly on any market. I want steam, and online retailers as well as bricks and mortar stores. Sometimes i like just going into a shop and looking at the boxes.
    Steam isn't a Monopoly. The likes of D2D, Impulse, Origin, etc. All compete with it.

    A Monopoly is something quite different. In a Monopoly you are the only supplier, so you can command any price you want. Similar to how EA can command whatever price it wants on BF3 and control it on it's Origin platform, but far less specific than just an exclusive game title. If the world woke up tomorrow and Steam was The Only Way you could purchase any game ever, then yes that would be a Monopoly.

    I'm sure there's a whole study in Economics that I didn't get to in my 6th year, about buyers that Purchase things in such a way as to only spite these things, eg. "Buy American" "Support your local businesses" etc. Rather than Free Market theories which assume that the consumer will always purchase goods at the most reasonable expense for the value and utility supplied.

    And by the way: Box-Art blows. Any online product page will give you 2x as much information if not more, and provide you full screen images on "The Back" not 2" thumbnails.

    Give it a little longer: Even console games will be distributed almost entirely digitally before you can blink an eye. Steam came onto the scene in what, 2003? And the PC shelf has been in rapid decline ever since. Whats left is only there to cater to anyone who doesn't have access to the internet. Next Gen you can fully expect full releases to be available through the likes of XBLA, no physical media required. And it's a green solution too, so I'm sure the Hippies will be delighted.
    Doctor Doom wrote:
    People gloating about the decline of bricks and mortar stores... wanting them to go bust because they don't give ME a cheaper price. That's people out of jobs you're smiling about, potentially it's families with no money for food, or to buy school books. It's more downtrodden on the dole who don't want to be there.

    So while yes the b + m stores need to adapt or die, perhaps we should think of the consequences of the sorry mess instead of going HAHAHA when it happens.
    Perhaps you'd like to join us in the US Politics forum in fight in the corner of Keynesian Economics. Basically the notion that we should hire people to dig holes and another group of people to fill them, just so people are employed.

    I have no motive to laugh at anyone who is struggling or poor but you're not going to get better by banking your future on a dying enterprise. I don't want you to drown but if you stay in that leaky boat, I'm going to marvel at how foolish you were. They need to innovate, and if they don't innovate, they need to do something else. And if they don't do that, then they deserve their lot.

    Just remember: Nintendo started out making playing cards. They didn't roll over and cry when Pac Man came to town.


  • #60
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Overheal wrote: »
    And by the way: Box-Art blows. Any online product page will give you 2x as much information if not more, and provide you full screen images on "The Back" not 2" thumbnails.
    Online product pages can't be stacked nicely on shelves in ones living room though. :)
    Overheal wrote: »
    Give it a little longer: Even console games will be distributed almost entirely digitally before you can blink an eye. Steam came onto the scene in what, 2003? And the PC shelf has been in rapid decline ever since. Whats left is only there to cater to anyone who doesn't have access to the internet. Next Gen you can fully expect full releases to be available through the likes of XBLA, no physical media required. And it's a green solution too, so I'm sure the Hippies will be delighted.Perhaps you'd like to join us in the US Politics forum in fight in the corner of Keynesian Economics. Basically the notion that we should hire people to dig holes and another group of people to fill them, just so people are employed.
    This is already possible on both XBL and PSN and the take up has been less than stellar by all accounts. Of course pretty insane pricing may have something to do with it so I guess until said prices stabilise it'll be hard to tell what the take up will be.

    As for the demise of brick and mortar stores, just remember folks, you'll still need somewhere to buy your consoles from. :)


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  • #61
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,480 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    gizmo wrote: »
    As for the demise of brick and mortar stores, just remember folks, you'll still need somewhere to buy your consoles from. :)
    Amazon...


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