The Corrib Tape

First to state I've no experience with these laws, I've no qualifications in Irish law, this is just from looking at the video evidence and applying the laws and what I know and can readily find out about them, so don't take things too much to heart if I'm wrong here...

Deleted User wrote: »

The girl wouldn't giver her name, was clearly familiar with another woman at the scene who was getting arrested by AGS at the time, was uncooperative and, from the looks of the video, tried to push past Gardaì to her friend, who she claimed was unsafe.

I'd say that's reason enough.


I don't believe either of the ladies involved reported Gardaì or complained, so I'd assume they agree that they weren't arrested unlawfully.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE (PUBLIC ORDER) ACT, 1994, Section 24.

24.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Siochana finds any person committing an offence under a relevant provision, the member may arrest such person without warrant.

(2) Where a member of the Garda Siochana is of the opinion that an offence has been committed under a relevant provision, the member may—
( a ) demand the name and address of any person whom the member suspects, with reasonable cause, has committed, or whom the member finds committing, such an offence, and
( b ) arrest without warrant any such person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded, or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading.

(3) Any person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded by virtue of subsection (2), or gives a name or address when so demanded which is false or misleading, shall be guilty of an offence.

There's the part of the Public Order act that allows Gardaí to ask for a name and address.

Without invoking this part of the Public order act, a Garda has no right to ask for a name and address - as a right to privicy is provided for in Article 40.3 of the Irish constitution.

Even if a Garda invokes the Public Order Act, he cannot demand your name and address unless he is of the opinion that you have committed an offence under that act.

AFAIK, To invoke the Public order act, You must also be informed first that you are committing an offence relative to the Public order act. As in, a garda cannot just invoke the Public order act for no reason, you must be committing an offence relative to that act, and you must be informed of that offence relative to the act.

I assume in this case, the offence was either "willful obstruction" or "trespass", however from the video footage, neither was mentioned, nor was there any mention of why the Public order act was being invoked. These may have been prior to the video, but I cannot comment on what I have no proof of. As such, and without any knowledge of the moments prior to the video, It seems like the gardaí bullying the person in an attempt to get details.

Also, Gardaí should at all times treat you with respect. They should not have any physical contact with you unless they are defending themselves, protecting other people or property or placing you under arrest. At one point ~1:50, just before the camera gets dropped it's quite obvious that the Garda grabs the arm of the person.

To me, it looks like unwarrented physical contact / force was used to restrain the person, as in the video they say multiple times to "let go of me"

It does seem like the bangarda conducted the arrest properly, however, as she does seem to give a reason for arrest and properly cautions the person.

Going by the only evidence that I (and most) have, which is the video, if the Public Order act was not correctally and rightfully invoked, then the arrest under section 24.2(b) was wrongful and charges could be pressed under civil and criminal law for wrongful arrest and false imprisonment. Also I believe that the Garda who used force to restrain the person can be charged with Assault under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997 - 2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another

Whatever the reasons for the protest in Mayo, the Gardai are being damaged by their actions.



The banter between guards may have been only that , but it would equally have been critised if it was a group of ambos joking about raping a woman who inappropriately called for an ambulance.


Anything that happens now will be criticised by the media , and unfortunatly the Guards are caught in the middle.

Locust wrote: »

Thanks.
Leave that for the courts...

This 'rape comment' was a throw away comment/laugh between friends/colleagues. Inappropriate - yeah sure - but it was said in a car, in private, and it just happened to be caught on tape. whats the Offence? Whats the crime? Who was the injured party here?

Gardai made an inappropriate remark in the car - NEWSFLASH - geez slow day in the News..
Is all of this media attention just because they have blue shirts and are supposed to be some kind of Batman type characters?!

Can the inside of a Garda car be described as private?

I think the media attention stems from the fact that rape is, and has been, used throughout the world by police forces and armies as a method of torture and intimidation of dissenters and minorities.

We, in Ireland, are different to those regimes and so to have a Garda joke about rape in the course of his duties is in poor taste.

They've been caught, it's unfortunate, punish them and then let it be a lesson to others to be more careful.

JonJoeDali wrote: »

If it was a priest, people would be up in arms and demanding assets be stripped from the church. I expect similar standards from members of the Gardai.

A measured and appropriate response indeed.
Anyway, you all seem to have the up in arms bit covered. Let's get started on the asset-stripping. Dibs on the new avensis outside my local station.

RT66 wrote: »

In everyone's rush to hang these lads at the behest of the delighted/offended (delete as appropriate) protesters, you've all assumed that you do know the full context. The assumption has been made that the rape reference came out of the blue. Perhaps it didn't? What if the members policing the protests there are habitually called rapists (among all the other terms of abuse they receive as a matter of course) by hysterical crusties? Then it's a fairly harmless and humorous method of dealing with such abuse once out of the public eye.

I don't want people who think this type of behavior is acceptable working as a member of the AGS in this country. Members (and all other civil servants) are entitled to their opinions on various sections of the community etc. We all hold our own opinions, it's human nature, that’s fine.. but when they are on-duty/working they need to be professional enough to rise-above this type of 'laddish' behavior. These guys were in a state-owned car on duty are in the workplace. It doesn’t matter what names/insualts they were (might have been) called before this incident! They are/were Gardai, they are supposed to be absolute gentlemen/upstanding citizens! Please clarify you point above: are you saying that because they encounter nasty types on regular basis some of these nasty traits rub off??!! I hope not. I doubt it very much. Most of the Gardai I've met on the roads and in sporting/social settings are decent people imo. I don’t like even like categorizing as per my last sentence.. it’s a bit like saying most doctors/firemen/milkmen/builders/pilots are sound. Everyone is different!

As a US multinational employee if I was overheard making reference to raping a female customer/vendor/supplier/colleague that would result in an instant dismissal, and would probably mean the end of my career. It's in our contract and would be classed as ‘sexual harassment’. And I would expect the same terms in the civil service... is this the case?

I don’t’ know what the end result will be, time will tell, but personally, I hold what AGS stand-for in very very high regard. I have 2 relations and 1 friend in the force. I’m proud of our style of policing tbh. There will always be bad apples in all walks of life, it’s a human thing. But, how the senior officers in the force are seen to handle this very disappointing event will set the tone going forward. These guys really need to understand what they have done. Maybe these lads are just not cut-out for the job?

RT66 wrote: »

What if the members policing the protests there are habitually called rapists (among all the other terms of abuse they receive as a matter of course) by hysterical crusties?

what if? so were on a hypethitical here?

seems like after the fact, many of you are trying to convince yourselves into a kind of justification for what was said and done. is this common?

I see potential abuse of power in the arrest of at least 1 woman - something that shell to sea have claimed is commonplace in the past and has been ignored.

I think the gardai here should not be scapegoated / made an example of. but overall the treatment of these feckin crusties needs to be investigated. because from the evedence, their madcap claims just got a whole lot more plausable this week.

CarMuppet wrote: »

Please clarify you point above: are you saying that because they encounter nasty types on regular basis some of these nasty traits rub off??!!

No. I thought I made it clear, but here goes again. I'm simply saying that the rape reference may not have come out of the blue (if you'll excuse the pun) and that there may be another context for it.
As an example, when someone calls me a pig I might be distraught & offended and go rushing to the nearest journo in tears - or I might make light of it by imitating a porker. It doesn't mean I'm wandering around with thoughts of swine in my head all day.
Likewise, if protesters were shouting "Murdering scum" at me all day, I might make light of it with my colleagues by joking that I would demand name & address, "or I'll murder you". Tommy Tiernan would have little to worry about, but then neither would the coroner.

All I'm saying is that there *may* be some external context to this that you all don't know about, but to not let that stop you from making Kilimanjaro out of this particular molehill.

Spacedog wrote: »

what if? so were on a hypethitical here?

seems like after the fact, many of you are trying to convince yourselves into a kind of justification for what was said and done. is this common?

I see potential abuse of power in the arrest of at least 1 woman - something that shell to sea have claimed is commonplace in the past and has been ignored.

I think the gardai here should not be scapegoated / made an example of. but overall the treatment of these feckin crusties needs to be investigated. because from the evedence, their madcap claims just got a whole lot more plausable this week.

RoverJames claimed to know the context of the remarks. I made the point that he/she may not know the context. You then quote me out of context, which presumably suits your agenda. I'm just glad to have been of service.

It's being blown out of all proportion in any case, and that can't be changed now. Did anyone see the headline that the Belfast Telegraph ran with today?

Garda rape probe: Young women tell of terror during arrest

Of course Gardai should be granted the same graces as regular citizens and allowed to exercise free speech but the problem has gone beyond what jokes were made at this stage. It's the reaction to the whole thing that is more damaging. AGS need to act quickly for the simple reason that they need to save face. The guys making the jibes were in uniform and the video managed to make it into the public realm.. it's unfortunate but it's too late to change that now.

The best thing would be for the lads in question to be made to issue a statement of apology and for the Garda Commissioner to reiterate that such behaviour is not seen as acceptable in a professional context within the organisation. The amount of arguing that's taking place over this is pointless, and trying to justify why no action should be taken only exacerbates the whole thing.

http://vimeo.com/21952231