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Wladimir Klitschko VS Jean-Marc Mormeck (3/3/12, Germany)

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    cowzerp wrote: »
    What about all the other Heavyweight champions?
    who did they beat, and i know people have beat Tyson etc but when he was a shell, so i mean real good names that where not near finished.

    Your using Boxing's greatest ever division to compare, use same comparison v any other heavyweight champ and you will get the same conclusion.

    Who did Wladimir Klitschko beat?

    and BTW I made my post to the critique at Ali's record on the previous page.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    I have never seen Ali fight a fighter like Mormeck.

    Jim White said on Sky sports that the bout wasn't a fight, and I agree with that. Mormeck landed 3 punches in the 4 rounds. Mormeck would never have stood a chance against Chuvalo, Mildenberger, Cooper, etc.

    Again your using the best ever as your comparison, even though Mormeck was cruiserweight world champion and Spinks was a novice pro who drew to a can in the 1st 7 fights!! mormeck was heavier too!!

    Spinks could not bang like Mormeck, i agree Mormeck was a bruatl fight but several of Ali's opponents where brutal, in a time where their where challengers and this should not have happened, but again you choose to forget that.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Who did Wladimir Klitschko beat?

    and BTW I made my post to the critique at Ali's record on the previous page.

    everyone willing thats who!!

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    You said Ali faced "poor opposition" when he could have faced "great opposition".

    Can you please give examples.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    cowzerp wrote: »
    everyone willing thats who!!

    David Haye is the only big name fighter whom the fought. Mormeck was "willing" to fight him.

    It would be good if he could fight Vitali, but that will never ever happen.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    David Haye is the only big name fighter whom the fought. Mormeck was "willing" to fight him.

    It would be good if he could fight Vitali, but that will never ever happen.
    David Haye is only big name fighter-This statement proves you get your knowledge from Sky and the British newspapers
    Samuel Peter 24-0-0 and then again.
    Peter had beat Toney twice for the record.
    Ibragimovic who was 22-0-1 and looked very good
    Thompson 31-1-0 and a big 6,5 south paw
    Rahman who KO'd Lewis and could bang and was on a winning run
    Chagaev 25-0-1 and was a solid Amateur too
    Chambers was 35-1-0 and only lost to povetkin and beat many top 10 lads,
    And at ease Haye and Mormeck who where both crusier weight champions.

    I don't think you will know any of these as it is clear you don't watch Heavyweight Boxing

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    You said Ali faced "poor opposition" when he could have faced "great opposition".

    Can you please give examples.

    when he faced Evangelista he could have rematched Norton who gave him a good fight and would have been a fairer fight, what about rematching Foreman? he faced Wepner for god's sake!
    you do know the top contenders don't you? could have fought any of them.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    Yes, these guys had good records, but who did they beat. They are the challengers.

    You can't use the excuse of people in the West not knowing eastern european fighters as a reason for saying they are bad. Eddie Chambers started boxing in 2001, far up in his career he beat guys like Cisse Salif, Livin Castillo. WTH like? Who are these guys? and they've winning records themselves.

    The Klitschko's are the only 2 big names fighters, in Ali's era you would have had to fight top class fighters to get at the title. Instead now these challengers beat low level opposition then fight top class opposition.

    Back in every era there where fighters who had great "records" yet couldn't win the title, Peter McNeeley for example. IMO this is another case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Yes, these guys had good records, but who did they beat. They are the challengers.

    You can't use the excuse of people in the West not knowing eastern european fighters as a reason for saying they are bad. Eddie Chambers started boxing in 2001, far up in his career he beat guys like Cisse Salif, Livin Castillo. WTH like? Who are these guys? and they've winning records themselves.

    The Klitschko's are the only 2 big names fighters, in Ali's era you would have had to fight top class fighters to get at the title. Instead now these challengers beat low level opposition then fight top class opposition.

    Back in every era there where fighters who had great "records" yet couldn't win the title, Peter McNeeley for example. IMO this is another case.

    hang on, i said any other Heavyweight champion who did not come from that Era, i'm still waiting-i seem to be the only 1 actual giving details in my posts-Tyson had no challengers but is still revered, Marciano fought bum after bum in 10 round matches then beat a few average or old lads and retired, who else?

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    cowzerp wrote: »
    when he faced Evangelista he could have rematched Norton who gave him a good fight and would have been a fairer fight, what about rematching Foreman? he faced Wepner for god's sake!
    you do know the top contenders don't you? could have fought any of them.

    He fought Norton 3 times, you would think that'd be enough? Do you think Pacman will fight Marquez a 4th time? I really doubt it. Ali was really old then too.

    I agree with Foreman, but if Ali faced Frazier 3 times, Norton 3 times and Earnie Shavers could you really doubt his heart? BTW Foreman didn't fight until 1976 after he lost to Ali when he fought Rony Lyle. The Wepner fight was in 1975. It was a tune-up for Lyle IMO, Wepner was pure tomato can, Ali deserved him. I really really doubt Ali took Wepner seriously, I doubt he even trained for the fight.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    cowzerp wrote: »
    hang on, i said any other Heavyweight champion who did not come from that Era, i'm still waiting-i seem to be the only 1 actual giving details in my posts-Tyson had no challengers but is still revered, Marciano fought bum after bum in 10 round matches then beat a few average or old lads and retired, who else?

    I agree with Marciano, he definitely isn't top 5 which is where he is put regularly. Tyson had no challengers because he blew everyone away. Look what he did to Michael Spinks, 91 seconds.

    That was a sign of Tyson's pedigree, could you believe any fighter could have handled Tyson? When Tyson was more than 20 fights in into his career he was still knocking em out in 1 round. You can see his hand speed, his power when he lands, his defence. Tyson was very spectacular, he lifted boxing off the mat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,432 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    This is silly

    Even bringing in Ali's reign and who he met and using it to compare to today's fighters to me is so off the mark. Today's examples of heavies would not be competitive in several eras. They are just very poor.

    Ali met everyone, and some of them more than once. So he had a few easier fights, big deal. Everyone does. He didn't rematch Foreman? Who cares. He beat Formean, one of history's most powerful fighters.

    He met Norton three times, not once, three times.

    Why can't Klit fans simply accept that although both are very good boxers, that they are in an era that is desperate weak, and yes, other eras througout history could be argued as being weak too.

    Tyson's era keeps getting brought up.

    Ok, the top ten in his era, championship era IMO wipe the floor with what we have today. How anyone thinks otherwise baffles me. Look at the fighters today. Chisora, Povetkin, Huck, Helenius, Haye, Solis. These lads have no chance against Tucker, Bruno, Spinks, Holmes, Thomas, Dokes, Biggs, Whiterspoon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    That was a sign of Tyson's pedigree, could you believe any fighter could have handled Tyson? When Tyson was more than 20 fights in into his career he was still knocking em out in 1 round. You can see his hand speed, his power when he lands, his defence. Tyson was very spectacular, he lifted boxing off the mat.

    Same can be said of the brothers, they just do it in different style, you have basically confirmed what i have been saying all along-Thanks.

    Their not Americans though so did not lift Boxing off the mat.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    It can't be said, Tyson KO'd opponents early and spectacularly. Plus i'd bet if Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker can got 12 rounds with Tyson they can trouble Klitschko's.

    The Klitschko's have had over 100 fights put together, and Lewis is the biggest name by far, and Vitali lost to him. Plus lets face it, the Klitschko's will never, ever be mentioned in the same sentence as Tyson. And this isn't only American's, i'm Irish and i'm saying it. I bet most of the world is saying it too.

    BTW I do believe Floyd Mayweather is not liked by a significant population of the American people, they walk out on his fights in the 9th/10th round and boo him. They like Pacquiao more IMO. Plus Mayweather faced top class opposition regularly (bar Pacquaio) in Marquez, Hatton, Corrales, etc. Cotto coming up. There can't be a direct comparison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    walshb wrote: »
    Tyson's era keeps getting brought up.

    Ok, the top ten in his era, championship era IMO wipe the floor with what we have today. How anyone thinks otherwise baffles me. Look at the fighters today. Chisora, Povetkin, Huck, Helenius, Haye, Solis. These lads have no chance against Tucker, Bruno, Spinks, Holmes, Thomas, Dokes, Biggs, Whitespoon.

    Tucker at 30-0-0 had only beat Douglas a man who was not rated by anyone in Boxing.
    Bruno only beat Bugner before 1st Tyson fight and after that nobody till mccall
    Spinks beat Holmes and Cooney at end of their careers and all his work was at Light heavy.
    Holmes beat some names but was on his way out bad and after losing twice to light heavy spinks
    Thomas beat nobody and had lost to Berbick
    Dokes who is dokes?!
    Biggs was only doing 10 rounders and hads not even seen a name, and his 1st real fight was Tyson on his 30th fight!!
    Whiterspoon i assume you mean, Tyson was kept away from him and they never fought.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,432 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Tucker at 30-0-0 had only beat Douglas a man who was not rated by anyone in Boxing.
    Bruno only beat Bugner before 1st Tyson fight and after that nobody till mccall
    Spinks beat Holmes and Cooney at end of their careers and all his work was at Light heavy.
    Holmes beat some names but was on his way out bad and after losing twice to light heavy spinks
    Thomas beat nobody and had lost to Berbick
    Dokes who is dokes?!
    Biggs was only doing 10 rounders and hads not even seen a name, and his 1st real fight was Tyson on his 30th fight!!
    Whiterspoon i assume you mean, Tyson was kept away from him and they never fought.


    Paul, forgetting these records, do you think today's men are better boxers/fighters than the 80s men? Serioulsy, Povetkin? Solis? Helenius?

    Whiterspoon was very good, but does not beat a peak Tyson. I think almost anyone would agree with this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    walshb wrote: »
    Paul, forgetting these records, do you think today's men are better boxers/fighters than the 80s men? Serioulsy, Povetkin? Solis? Helenius?

    Whiterspoon was very good, but does not beat a peak Tyson. I think almost anyone would agree with this.

    it's irrelevant about witherspoon, they did not fight and makes it look worse for Tyson and many feel it was him been protected.

    As i said earlier its much of a muchness-YOU are seriously overrating Tysons era which was poor and you give no reason for anyone to change their minds-it's just like now and most other Era's, what i will say is todays era is better than Marcianos and people have no problem overrating Marciano as a heavyweight all timer.

    You might not like me saying this but todays lads not been on tele, is the reason your so blinkered and most of the 80's names would be unknowns if Tyson had not bashed them, have you ever even seen the 3 of todays you name Boxing? and if so how many times.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    Looking at the condition alone. Solis, Arreola, Chisora (who shouldn't be weighing in at 238lbs, more like 225lbs in tip top condition). These are top contenders but come in overweight. That is why I don't think they would do good in the 80's.

    But look at Chiosra, Helenius, Tyson Fury who is rated #5 at HW now. They have a couple of good fights and are elevated to top contender status, that sholdn't happen. Chisora lost 2 of his past 3 fights before Vitali. Tyson Fury hasn't beaten anyone of note. (and i'm including a 260lb Chisora here.) Helenius has beaten no-one, nada, but is the top contender.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Looking at the condition alone. Solis, Arreola, Chisora (who shouldn't be weighing in at 238lbs, more like 225lbs in tip top condition). These are top contenders but come in overweight. That is why I don't think they would do good in the 80's.

    But look at Chiosra, Helenius, Tyson Fury who is rated #5 at HW now. They have a couple of good fights and are elevated to top contender status, that sholdn't happen. Chisora lost 2 of his past 3 fights before Vitali. Tyson Fury hasn't beaten anyone of note. (and i'm including a 260lb Chisora here.)

    We know Chisora is a dud at heavyweight.
    Fury rated top 5 is pathetic even though he is unbeaten but he is not a top 5 boxer so that does not make all the rest below him worse-some politics here i guess and he probably will get 1 of the brothers next if this does not change, was not rated top 15 recently.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    TBH i'd love for Vitali to knock Fury the f*** out. He arrived calling himself "Tyson", talks a lot. Hopefully he fights either brother soon instead of fightning these no names 3/4 times a year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭gene_tunney


    Tyson Fury is not a top 20 Heavyweight.


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