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If Catholic Church had a new leader...

124

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Your definition of a starting point that does not "require any arguments" is based on your own viewpoint and what does and does not require arguments.
    My definition of a starting point is based on the concepts of Burden of Proof and Occam's Razor.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 BlackCatMeoww


    Why do non-catholics have such a fascination with Church leadership? I wonder do ye have a fascination with what goes on down in your local golf club?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 BlackCatMeoww


    Stark wrote: »
    Seachmall wrote: »
    It's hardly the Church's fault that God keeps changing the Heaven/Hell policy...

    You'd think being all powerful he might be able to maintain some sort of website/twitter account with the up-to-date information.

    Evidently you have never heard of the Pope's YouTube channel. Plenty of space for anti-catholic rhetoric in the comments.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    Why do non-catholics have such a fascination with Church leadership? I wonder do ye have a fascination with what goes on down in your local golf club?

    I thin the fascination (for me anyway) comes from the damage that the church has done to the community as a whole, not just their own members. I was a member, most of my family and friends still are, so tht's where my interest comes from.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Why do non-catholics have such a fascination with Church leadership? I wonder do ye have a fascination with what goes on down in your local golf club?

    My local golf club doesn't generally preach moral absolutes which are detrimental to society to a large group of willing listeners.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    Seachmall wrote: »
    My local golf club doesn't generally preach moral absolutes which are detrimental to society to a large group of willing listeners.


    Heh. Golf clubs aren't the best example in fairness :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Father Damo


    talkinyite wrote: »
    Maybe for a wedding but not a funeral. The only time I ever went to a mass was after my mate had killed himself, the priest said he was going to hell.

    I doubt this highly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Father Damo


    Seachmall wrote: »
    My local golf club doesn't generally preach moral absolutes which are detrimental to society to a large group of willing listeners.


    In what country? The church hsnt had any influence on anyone in this country in 20 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    In what country? The church hsnt had any influence on anyone in this country in 20 years.

    Ah it has...... maybe not my generation (I'm 30), but definitely the older generations.
    They also still run the majority of primary schools. Massive influence there....


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    In what country? The church hsnt had any influence on anyone in this country in 20 years.

    what about people making their communions, baptising their kids, etc etc?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    In what country? The church hsnt had any influence on anyone in this country in 20 years.

    Visit my kids school for a week and come back to me on this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,948 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    In what country? The church hsnt had any influence on anyone in this country in 20 years.
    Yet parents are still forced to send their kids to Catholic schools, because the Catholics run most of the schools, and you can't get in to a Catholic school unless you have been baptised as a kid. Which means that the Catholic authorities can point to the high numbers of baptisms - and the results of previous censuses of people calling themselves "Catholic" even though they aren't, really - and say "see, Ireland is a Catholic country, so it's right that we are running all the schools".

    Did you spot the circular logic there? That's only one example of how the Church has an unjustified stranglehold on this country's institutions. The Constitution is another: some nods towards freedom of religion, followed by the requirement for judges and others to take a religious oath of office. Nothing will change until the people realise how their good nature has been hijacked by the leaders of one religion.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Father Damo


    bnt wrote: »
    Yet parents are still forced to send their kids to Catholic schools, because the Catholics run most of the schools, and you can't get in to a Catholic school unless you have been baptised as a kid. Which means that the Catholic authorities can point to the high numbers of baptisms - and the results of previous censuses of people calling themselves "Catholic" even though they aren't, really - and say "see, Ireland is a Catholic country, so it's right that we are running all the schools".


    How much religious indoctrination is done in said schools?

    In national school we never did religion more than once per month.

    In secondary religion was more of a social responsibility class. Less bible bashing and more talk about keeping us off the drink, the drugs, the underage sex and other enjoyable youthful hi jinks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 BlackCatMeoww


    That's right... Blame the Church for the Government's inadequacy when it comes to providing education for atheist parents. The fact is that the Church did the State's dirty work for decades. The chickens are now coming home to roost now that the great State Secularization Project is in full swing.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0528/children.html

    Now what else can we blame on the Church?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    That's right... Blame the Church for the Government's inadequacy when it comes to providing education for atheist parents. The fact is that the Church did the State's dirty work for decades. The chickens are now coming home to roost now that the great State Secularization Project is in full swing.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0528/children.html

    Now what else can we blame on the Church?

    Providing education for kids not parents.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 BlackCatMeoww


    Providing education for kids not parents.

    Parents are responsible for their children's education.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭cartell_best


    Without sounding rhetorical or paedantic. The church is a business. Without strong financial support it cannot survive. The thing is, we need to look outside the box. If the church had a new leader, we would need someone who is detached from what most people see and understand as being an acceptable norm for a movement (and yeah, thats what man has created).

    Regardless of one's religious beliefs, there is one thing left and thats called a humane approach to life. I believe that a "new leader of the Catholic church"...needs to (not neccesaril)y move with the times but just to show what people seem to lack, compassion. Life seems to be a constant rat race... Nah...its more than that. A lot more. Its just, it takes few to destroy whats good and many to restore what actually is good.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 BlackCatMeoww


    Most of the Church's wealth is held in trust. You say the church is a business - perhaps to an outside cynic like yourself. In the business of saving souls perhaps; but of course you know better than the Catholic Church. It can and will survive even if there are few young men replenishing the ranks. Thankfully, there are 1,000s of seminarians in Africa and Asia who will be the ones who will enrich the Church in Ireland. There are huge cultural challenges involved, but the Church has had much greater challenges in her past.

    Pope Benedict XVI will be around for a while yet. He has done tremendous work sofar: work that many boardsies would balk at if they even attempted to keep his schedule.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Father Damo


    Now what else can we blame on the Church?


    Dose bleedin bankers?

    Anyone who claims there is any level of religious training in Irish schools is talking sh1te and they know it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 BlackCatMeoww


    Anyone who claims there is any level of religious training in Irish schools is talking sh1te and they know it.

    This is true. The way forward is to make parents pay for their Catholic education, create a smaller, true church and dump all the rest of the a la carte schools. The Church would make plenty of money for charitable works by doing so.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Parents are responsible for their children's education.
    Actually the state is!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    It would be a new religion, just like the Romans did 2,000 years ago, make one yourself and get rich. :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Parents are responsible for their children's education.

    Except in matters of supernatural superstitious nonsense. Thats farmed out to schools.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 BlackCatMeoww


    lividduck wrote: »
    Actually the state is!

    I don't know what kind of nanny state you want to live in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    I don't know what kind of nanny state you want to live in.
    Nanny State!
    The State has an obligation to provide certain services to its people, including education.
    A Nanny State is what we had when the Church ran riot, exercising political power it had no entitlement to.
    Thankfully that is becoming less and less the case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    In fairness the church has served one vital purpose in that it was instrumental (haw) in the bringing into existence of heavy metal. Can't have satan music without satan now can we.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    The problem is the popes are always really old. So its not going to happen because they were raised on 1940's ish values. So in 2070 we will have a pope with modern day values. Lol.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    In what country? The church hsnt had any influence on anyone in this country in 20 years.

    A nun came into my younger sister's school and showed her class a video of an abortion being performed. This was about 6 months ago.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    In what country? The church hsnt had any influence on anyone in this country in 20 years.
    Catholic Communion and Confirmation organized in over 90% of primary schools.
    Religious icons and paraphanalia in over 90% of Primary schools.
    The Angelus said in over 90% of primary schools.
    Roman Catholic catecism taught in 90% of primary schools.
    Prayers said before formal sittings of the Dail!
    State funded broadcasts of Mass and the Angelus


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,298 ✭✭✭Namlub


    Dose bleedin bankers?

    Anyone who claims there is any level of religious training in Irish schools is talking sh1te and they know it.

    I'm in 6th year - we stand up to pray before every class, we have three compulsory religion classes a week where we read Catholic propaganda magazines, learn about the Catholic church's (nothing about any other religion) teachings on marriage, contraception etc, we have regular masses which we can't opt out of, I basically got ash forced on me on Ash Wednesday...I really don't know where you got this idea that Irish schools have suddenly become all progressive.


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