What will be the consequences of the multimedia efforts of the IT and S/Indo on RTE?

Mr Pseudonym · 30-03-2014 4:09am #1

In the last few months, the Irish Times and Irish Independent/Sunday Independent have noticeably increased their commitments to multimedia.

The IT began hosting, as a podcast called Second Captains, the Eoin Mcdevitt-led team that left Newstalk's Off the Ball. However, there was little integration with the paper other than an occasional Ken Early football column. Fast-forward to the beginning of this year, and the IT began publishing four more podcasts, only this time with much more involvement from within: Inside Politics is hosted by Hugh Linehan (Digital Development Editor) and regularly features the big names from the political editorial team (Harry McGee, Stephen Collins, Arthur Beesley) as well as guests; Business and Technology is hosted by the newly recruited Tom Lyons, and features journalists primarily from the Business side of the paper; The Travel Show is hosted by Fionn Davenport; and World View is hosted by the well-respect Deputy Editor (and former Foreign Editor) Denis Staunton, and features the IT's large network of foreign correspondents. While the number of "Plays" fluctuates depending on the topic, Inside Politics has averaged around 2500 and World View has averaged around 5000; the longer-running Second Captains consistently gets around 25,000. This is a link to the podcasts page.

The IT has also made efforts with regard to Video. Examples include:

Fiach Kelly reporting Martin Callinan's resignation and the Garda recordings.

Harry McGee following the Seanad Referendum defeat.

Tom Lyons at the beginning of the Anglo Trial.

And Gerry Thornley and guest reviewing one and previewing another Six Nations rugby match.

It had seemed that the IT had caught a lead on the S/Indo. However, the Callinan-resignation/Garda-recordings scandals have prompted S'Indo to reveal their intentions.

They published three panel discussions featuring Political Editor Fionnan Shehan (twice hosting) and other journos: 1, 2, 3.

Another example is a sit-down exchange between Business Editor Thomas Molloy and economics columnist Dan O'Brien.

The IT's offering of regular podcasts is very impressive and, by my reckoning, of sufficient quality to be comparable to Radio 1 programmes; the S/Indo's discussions are very professional and could be compared with a Prime Time interview, albeit without having the polish of a TV production.

Both the IT and S/Indo have indicated that they intend to go behind a paywall (though the latter delayed doing so, which seems to have stalled the IT, as well). It's clear that the current model of meagre ad revenue and declining circulation is unsustainable. The IT and S/Indo should get behind some sort of paywall fast! Radically improving their websites and integrating the type of quality multimedia presented above would likely prove persuasive in the effort to get people to subscribe. One could imagine a model where simple reporting pieces are accessible by all, but that supporting content like in-depth analysis, opinion and multimedia would require a subscription.

After that very long preamble, I come to the question in the title. RTE, especially Radio 1, is very dependent on newspaper journalists. In the model I present above, the dual benefit (i.e. RTE gets experts, and they get to promote their papers) is less obvious. Suddenly news outlets are now competing with RTE rather coexisting with it.

It's also conceivable that INM could refuse to allow journos from its papers to appear on RTE, and instead only on Newstalk, Today FM, etc.

I don't necessarily think the situation is bleak for RTE: they could compensate by getting more political scientists, and other academics, to appear or by improving their own political staff. However, at present, they are in a desirable position where they can host an opinionated and unshackled journalist who could claim, say, that Martin Callinan was sacked, without jeopardising RTE's integrity - that wouldn't be provided by more reticent and cautious academics or RTE staff constrained by a requirement to remain balanced.

What are anyone's thoughts?

expectationlost · 30-03-2014 4:40am

i dunno its alot about journalist having to do much more, the sames goes for rte they showed off this a few weeks ago a multimedia piece shot on iphone about thomas reads cutlers https://www.storehouse.co/stories/c8dv-selling-off-the-silverware

the indo used to have daily news video, can't find it again, did they drop it already

what happened to rte being forced to give other orgs their footage?

Mr Pseudonym · 30-03-2014 5:07am

expectationlost wrote: »

i dunno its alot about journalist having to do much more the sames goes for rte they showed off this a few weeks ago a multimedia piece shot on iphone about thomas reads cutlers https://www.storehouse.co/stories/c8dv-selling-off-the-silverware

the indo usedto have daily news video, can't find it again

what happenedto rte being forced to give other orgs their footage?

What you say vaguely reminds me of something I read, but I can't remember the details: something about a news report which was filmed entirely on a phone - I'll post if I remember. Certainly advances in consumer tech allow small-scale outlets to compete with organisations who traditionally have existed in monopolies/oligopolies because of the barrier to entry that was the cost of professional equipment.

I wasn't aware that RTE was obliged to do that. I had wondered why the Independent website was allowed to host their content. Most of the Indo's videos are RTE reports.

expectationlost · 30-03-2014 11:34pm

im sure indo had for a while a morning news update which was produced by them (whether the footage was rte's or not) but they seem to have dropped it for viral crap

of course there simon mcgarr campaign that if rte is obliged to give its footage to other papers then that should include citizen journalist, ie anyone should be able to re-use http://www.tuppenceworth.ie/blog/2014/01/20/information-commissioners-decision-on-rte-nni-foi-raises-questions/

Loafing Oaf · 31-03-2014 12:21am

Someone on another forum suggested that the primary objective of the IT's multimedia activities was to secure a slice of Pat Rabbitte's broadcasting charge or whatever it's called. Whether that turns out to be a consequence of it is another matter...

But leaving that conspiracy theory aside, you'd have think this stuff will only pay off if and when these papers go behind a paywall, although it might be a good bit of marketing to give people a taster of it gratis first. As has been discussed in other threads though, the jury is still very much out on whether Irish people are prepared to subscribe to online newspapers in any significant numbers, regardless of how strong the product.

Mr Pseudonym · 31-03-2014 6:54am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Someone on another forum suggested that the primary objective of the IT's multimedia activities was to secure a slice of Pat Rabbitte's broadcasting charge or whatever it's called. Whether that turns out to be a consequence of it is another matter...

But leaving that conspiracy theory aside, you'd have think this stuff will only pay off if and when these papers go behind a paywall, although it might be a good bit of marketing to give people a taster of it gratis first. As has been discussed in other threads though, the jury is still very much out on whether Irish people are prepared to subscribe to online newspapers in any significant numbers, regardless of how strong the product.

That's an interesting suggestion. Was that mentioned on a Boards.ie sub-forum or a different site?

You'd have to ask: is it worth diverting journalist's time to podcasts that get only an average of 2-5k Plays per episode? A play is counted when someone clicks on the Play button, regardless of for how long they then listen - so it's likely that even those numbers over-state the audience. But, they are going to go behind paywalls. And, having multimedia content along side traditional print would, if nothing else, be enticing to potential subscribers. If all three broadsheets adopt paywalls, and with access only to RTE, people may re-evaluate their refusal to pay for content.

Loafing Oaf · 31-03-2014 9:28am

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

That's an interesting suggestion. Was that mentioned on a Boards.ie sub-forum or a different site?

One of the smaller discussion sites, political world or property pin or one of those. Might be this thread but I can't locate the reference if it is: http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42774

Re radio programmes relying on print journalists for content, the sine qua non of this is currently holding forth on Newstalk: Adrian Weckler. RTE's and Newstalk's tech coverage would be so much poorer without this guy.

Mr Pseudonym · 31-03-2014 6:41pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

One of the smaller discussion sites, political world or property pin or one of those. Might be this thread but I can't locate the reference if it is: http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42774

Re radio programmes relying on print journalists for content, the sine qua non of this is currently holding forth on Newstalk: Adrian Weckler. RTE's and Newstalk's tech coverage would be so much poorer without this guy.

Thanks for the effort. That looks like an interesting discussion.

I know, it's hilarious! I've heard him on RTE, Newstalk, Today FM. This thread on Politics.ie shows the amounts paid to outside contributors over a three-year period. It is, ofc, to be expected that Radio 1 programmes would feature guests. But, what I find most remarkable is how often they feature political commentators. Apart from the fact that you'd expect them to rely on their own political staff more, it makes it very difficult to ensure balance across their output (which is, after all, one of their principal tasks): rather than a David Davin-Power who will aim to give both sides of the story, if they are to have, say, John Waters on, they need to counterbalance him with someone from the Left.

expectationlost · 06-04-2014 8:20pm

now the noticing the indepedent.ie articles are full of embedded rte.ie news videos

monument · 08-04-2014 10:20am

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

If all three broadsheets adopt paywalls, and with access only to RTE, people may re-evaluate their refusal to pay for content.

Why would they pay?

I'm sure some would pay but large numbers of people are unlikely to pay anything near the daily cover price.

The daily broadsheets news offering is not notably different to that of the free sites out there.

Mr Pseudonym · 08-04-2014 11:47am

monument wrote: »

Why would they pay?

I'm sure some would pay but large numbers of people are unlikely to pay anything near the daily cover price.

The daily broadsheets news offering is not notably different to that of the free sites out there.

The broadsheets offer better sports coverage and noticeably better news coverage, especially opinion.

According to the most recent ABC report, Independent.ie has 350k unique browsers per day. Many of those presumably value what it offers and think it unique, so some would likely subscribe.

The only online publication whose digital price is similar to its cover price is the FT.

Onthe3rdDay · 16-04-2014 5:56pm

The Irish Times Podcasts are up to scratch and easily as good as anything that's been broadcast on RTE/Newstalk. In some cases they're much better. The Video stuff not as much.

TV takes time and effort to look good. Amateur bloggers with far less resources do a better job than what the Irish Times and the Independent do at the moment. The Independent panel discussion has poor sound. Poor pictures can be forgiven, Poor sound loses an audience in seconds.

Basically they've paid Consultants to see how they can expand their audience. This is what they've come up with. It does make sense that your product becomes more multimedia, but it has to be done well.

Marketed correctly the Podcasts on the Irish Times could be a big success, all the rest appears to be just padding at the moment.

Mr Pseudonym · 16-04-2014 6:04pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

The Irish Times Podcasts are up to scratch and easily as good as anything that's been broadcast on RTE/Newstalk. In some cases they're much better. The Video stuff not as much.

TV takes time and effort to look good. Amateur bloggers with far less resources do a better job than what the Irish Times and the Independent do at the moment. The Independent panel discussion has poor sound. Poor pictures can be forgiven, Poor sound loses an audience in seconds.

Basically they've paid Consultants to see how they can expand their audience. This is what they've come up with. It does make sense that your product becomes more multimedia, but it has to be done well.

Marketed correctly the Podcasts on the Irish Times could be a big success, all the rest appears to be just padding at the moment.

I agree that the IT's video content is pretty poor. But, I disagree with what you said about the Indo's. Yes, it was annoying that Dearbhaill McDonald kept hitting her microphone (as an aside, I saw here during a live panel discussion a few months ago, and she had the exacxt same problem then!), but the analysis in the vidoes I linked in the OP was very good, and improving the production values shoudln't be difficult.

Onthe3rdDay · 16-04-2014 6:49pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

I agree that the IT's video content is pretty poor. But, I disagree with what you said about the Indo's. Yes, it was annoying that Dearbhaill McDonald kept hitting her microphone (as an aside, I saw here during a live panel discussion a few months ago, and she had the exacxt same problem then!), but the analysis in the vidoes I linked in the OP was very good, and improving the production values shoudln't be difficult.

Good analysis is vital of course, but trust me, if you have poor sound on a video you'll lose a lot of your audience in seconds. That's fine if it's a one off but do it again and again and people stop clicking and it's hard to get them to try again.

Getting the sound right is the first priority, When the quality of a production is less than decent it puts people off. I think the Irish Times have already learnt that lesson as their Podcasts sound like proper radio shows.

monument · 16-04-2014 8:14pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

so some would likely subscribe.

If they were sure that enough people would they'd already have a paywall up.

There's little to show things have changed enough since the last Irish paywall attempts.

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

The only online publication whose digital price is similar to its cover price is the FT.

I did not mean the exactly the cover price but it needs to be substantial and you have to remember many international operations have the scale which allows them to work off a cheaper price per person.

Mr Pseudonym · 16-04-2014 8:17pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I think the Irish Times have already learnt that lesson as their Podcasts sound like proper radio shows.

I agree with you about sound quality. But, once identified, it should be easy to correct. The sound quality in the Molloy/O'Brien discussion is good.

Sinead O'Shea, whom I first heard about as a freelance documentary maker with Al Jazeera, is the producer of all the IT's podcasts. It would seem her technical experience has been of benefit.

Here's a picture of the IT's "studio", if you're interested.

Mr Pseudonym · 16-04-2014 8:46pm

Another Indo panel discussion.

Onthe3rdDay · 16-04-2014 8:56pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Another Indo panel discussion.

Okay that's much better. All they really need is a desk. If you were to meet up with friends or colleagues you wouldn't sit around as they're doing. Any discussion show either should take place on couches (for a relaxed look) or have a desk as you would in a boardroom. It's looks better and it would stop tall people from slouching. It looks like a doctor's waiting room (with a old copy of their Sunday Magazine lying around)

However, if there was a desk it would look better than Tonight with Vincent, in fact it already does!

expectationlost · 16-04-2014 10:40pm

are they not just copying bloomburg and huffpo live

Mr Pseudonym · 16-04-2014 10:53pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Sinead O'Shea, whom I first heard about as a freelance documentary maker with Al Jazeera, is the producer of all the IT's podcasts. It would seem her technical experience has been of benefit.

Just reread my post. The clause in bold is badly phrased. To clarify, I was never a freelance documentary maker!

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Okay that's much better. All they really need is a desk. If you were to meet up with friends or colleagues you wouldn't sit around as they're doing. Any discussion show either should take place on couches (for a relaxed look) or have a desk as you would in a boardroom. It's looks better and it would stop tall people from slouching. It looks like a doctor's waiting room (with a old copy of their Sunday Magazine lying around)

However, if there was a desk it would look better than Tonight with Vincent, in fact it already does!

I dislike the way they are facing the camera yet addressing Sheahan. I would prefer something like the layout of this Newsnight interview.

I agree with what you said about a desk. Unfortunately, so long-legged is Sheahan that he would look cramped in any chair! I also think it's a shame that he doesn't engage in the discussion - instead, only prompting the others.

expectationlost wrote: »

are they not just copying bloomburg and huffpo live

In what way?

expectationlost · 16-04-2014 11:21pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Just reread my post. The clause in bold is badly phrased. To clarify, I was never a freelance documentary maker!

I dislike the way they are facing the camera yet addressing Sheahan. I would prefer something like the layout of this Newsnight interview.

I agree with what you said about a desk. Unfortunately, so long-legged is Sheahan that he would look cramped in any chair! I also think it's a shame that he doesn't engage in the discussion - instead, only prompting the others.

In what way?

i meant and the new york times less so bloomberg
... textual news orgs that started to do tv

Onthe3rdDay · 16-04-2014 11:35pm

expectationlost wrote: »

i meant and the new york times less so bloomberg
... textual news orgs that started to do tv

They're all copying each other. There are only so many ways to do news.

Mr Pseudonym · 16-04-2014 11:39pm

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

They're all copying each other. There are only so many ways to do news.

I would agree with the above. Surely it's the obvious way to go? They're not "doing" TV; instead, utilising other media to deliver news.

Onthe3rdDay · 16-04-2014 11:39pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

I agree with what you said about a desk. Unfortunately, so long-legged is Sheahan that he would look cramped in any chair! I also think it's a shame that he doesn't engage in the discussion - instead, only prompting the others.

They need a bit of coaching to be honest. Now if they keep at it, it'll get better with time, but it will take time. TV is very hard to do if you want to do it well.

As for long legged individuals, the trick of television is to make the short look tall and the tall look elegant. It can be done, but effort is needed.

Mr Pseudonym · 19-04-2014 11:50am

"Independent.ie" looking for a Multimedia Editor. Does that mean that the website is separate from the papers?

monument · 19-04-2014 2:19pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

"Independent.ie" looking for a Multimedia Editor. Does that mean that the website is separate from the papers?

No, it means they have yet to figure out how to embed multimedia content onto newsprint!

expectationlost · 19-04-2014 10:04pm

monument wrote: »

No, it means they have yet to figure out how to embed multimedia content onto newsprint!

harry potter did why can't they ?

https://twitter.com/brianwhelanhack/status/457623973984235520

somebody there saying that the Independent News (Ireland) doesn't own independent.ie ...?

Mr Pseudonym · 19-04-2014 10:07pm

expectationlost wrote: »

harry potter did why can't they ?

https://twitter.com/brianwhelanhack/status/457623973984235520

somebody there saying that the Independent News (Ireland) doesn't own independent.ie ...?

Interesting. But, that's The Independent of London.

expectationlost · 19-04-2014 10:08pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Interesting. But, that's The Independent of London.

whoops i didn't even bothered to look at link just saw content factory and thought it ended in .ie

Mr Pseudonym · 19-04-2014 10:11pm

expectationlost wrote: »

whoops i didn't even bothered to look at link just thought it ended in .ie

If he thought Indo.co.uk is a "content factory", he should check-out the Irish version!

Elmo · 21-04-2014 4:22pm

Unless they start to provide film, drama, documentary and other non Current Affairs/News related content it won't really make much of a dint.

Broadcasting and Newspapers are different types of communications.

What will be the consequences of the multimedia efforts of the IT and S/Indo on RTE?

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