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Does great beauty corrupt?

  • 18-04-2014 4:46pm
    #1
    Battered tackies
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭


    I think it does, being honest


Comments

  • #2
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Yes! or at least it has a good chance to.
    But thats a boring answer...

    Lets throw in some duality :D
    Anyone? before I go on a spiel.


  • #3
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Battered tackies wrote: »
    I think it does, being honest
    MOD: This is the Philosophy forum. Please attempt to raise the standards of your discussion to include philosophical support from other philosophers and philosophies. Friendly reminder from Charter:
    Black Swan wrote: »
    Purpose:

    This forum is about discussing, interacting, learning, understanding, and debating philosophies...

    You are encouraged to elaborate upon or challenge a philosophical position, logic, significance, relevance, analytical method, context, interpretation, prediction, historical antecedents, empirical foundation...

    Citing philosophers and their works in support of your position taken is greatly encouraged. Links are sometimes helpful too.


  • #4
    Joe1919
    Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." Lord Acton

    Great beauty can be a power, so it does have the potential to corrupt.


  • #5
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Joe1919 wrote: »
    "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." Lord Acton

    Great beauty can be a power, so it does have the potential to corrupt.
    That's funny, that famous saying is the first thing that came into my head when I saw this thread :)

    I think this dynamic can be explained in simple enough ways too.
    Really good looking people get what they want more, due to human nature. When you live a life of privilege you stop trying sohard and lose many skills, you become stupid or unthinking if not carefull.

    The opposing side of things, might be someone whois really not good looking and usually must work much harder in other areas to get things. This causes them to have better personalities or other usefull skills.

    Much like poor people can be extremely intelligent with street smarts and not so much with topics requiring you to memorize specific subjects.
    Many entrepeneurs are people who left school early and had to self learn and scramble their way to the top, sharpening their skills.

    Good looks can be a curse and a blessing and so can beign not good looking.

    However their are obviously exceptions.
    Good looking people who have low self esteem.
    Or not so good looking people with high self esteem.

    The only thing that doesn't change, is how people react to looks in general.

    All very general there, we are all various shades of everything.


  • #6
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Do we need to agree on what constitutes "great beauty" before proceeding with the notion that it "corrupts?" David Hume (1742) in his Moral and Political essay suggested that this may be problematic: "Beauty in things exists merely in the mind which contemplates them."


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  • #7
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Nice one.

    What if great beauty is decided by the majority?
    If we are talking about people, a majority would be the guiding influence on their own perceptions of beauty and so have potential to corrupt, when someone meets those requirements.

    Those who do not meet the majorities requirements are more likely to fall short of the label in their own eyes and act accordingly.
    But again this is very dependant and not an absolute.

    If talking absolute and say speaking about a statue, it cannot be corrupted just by being seen as beautifull.

    It is nice to be rmeinded philosophy does not always have to be focussed on people themselves :)


  • #8
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Torakx wrote: »
    What if great beauty is decided by the majority?
    What "majority" will define "great beauty?" This is not clear.

    What will be the population parameters of this "majority?" For example, will it be a census or representative sample survey of every man, woman, and child on the planet, across their highly differentiated races, cultures, nationalities, philosophies/ideologies, gender preferences, generational differences (Baby Boom vs Gen-X vs Baby Boomlet), etc., in terms of how they define "great beauty?"

    Or will this definition of "great beauty" be delimited to, and representative of the majority view of a particular and relatively narrow homogeneous group?

    Or is there a universal set of characteristics that clearly and objectively define "great beauty" for all humanity, regardless of their great diversity?

    Many discussions of beauty are found in the aesthetics of philosophy. Positions defining beauty taken by various philosophers range from objective to subjective, with many disagreements. Immanuel Kant in his Critique of Pure Reason suggested that beauty fell someplace between objective and subjective criteria, which fits with my perspective; although I try to exercise caution when viewing such dichotomies (see Jacques Derrida).

    So how do we define "great beauty?"


  • #9
    Joe1919
    Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    I think it could be argued that the problem of 'great beauty' is not whether it is or is not in itself a good or a bad thing but the effect great beauty has on people. Beauty, by definition is something that has the potential to create great pleasure and great desire in people.
    Now great desire has traditionally been considered a problem and the downfall of man. Man is often not just happy to enjoy or to share the great beauty; no, he often wants to own and control this great beauty. Great beauty, because it is desirable and valuable has the potential to create many strong emotions (envy, jealousy, greed, grief when lost, etc.) and those who possess the beauty (in the case of personal beauty) may also be aware and use this power that they possess.
    I would argue then, that great beauty in itself is a good, but the desire that it creates is potentially bad.

    PS For the purposes of my reply, I am happy with the fairly standard definition of beauty as 'the quality present in a thing or person that gives intense pleasure or deep satisfaction to the mind, whether arising from sensory manifestations (as shape, color, sound, etc.), a meaningful design or pattern, or something else (as a personality in which high spiritual qualities are manifest).


  • #10
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Good points all.
    I think my want to be very general in this case, is due to lack of an answer :)
    When it's considered at the baser levels, beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder.
    And the personal corruption I spoke of is situational.
    So I think in the overall sense, I can't honestly say great beauty corrupts.

    Maybe a related question to ponder would be, does great desire corrupt?

    I suppose if I want to get to the heart of that question on beauty, I may serve myself better asking, is there a situation I can think of where great beauty does not corrupt.
    And if there is one, I suppose the ultimate answer is no it doesn't.
    And as Joe said, it may be other factors that are involved in the corruption.


  • #11
    Battered tackies
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Battered tackies


    Black Swan wrote: »
    MOD: This is the Philosophy forum. Please attempt to raise the standards of your discussion to include philosophical support from other philosophers and philosophies. Friendly reminder from Charter:

    Ah come on now, I'm neither versed in psychology or eloquent in language. What's the point in quoting and writing reams of tripe when my view could be easily portrayed in a handful of words? Only for the sake of pedanticism, I'd say.


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  • #12
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    I think it does, being honest
    I am sure you have the ability to expand on that! :)
    As sure as I am you didn't look up the word eloquent to make your point.

    I don't fully agree with having to use other philosophers quotes, because it may limit the conversation to some degree. By sticking to the "rules" laid out by previous philosophers.
    However they do have a lot of insights and it can save time when searching for answers.

    I would enjoy hearing why you personally think beauty corrupts and if you don't anymore, which philosophy or idea caused you to change your mind.
    There is always time to reset a discussion and carry on in a positive light :)
    And Not enough people ask questions like yours here and share their thoughts.


  • #13
    Battered tackies
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Battered tackies


    Battered tackies wrote: »
    , I'm neither versed in psychology or eloquent in language.

    I said psychology instead of philosophy- I think that just aids my point :)
    Torakx wrote: »
    I am sure you have the ability to expand on that! :)
    As sure as I am you didn't look up the word eloquent to make your point.
    I would enjoy hearing why you personally think beauty corrupts and if you don't anymore, which philosophy or idea caused you to change your mind.
    There is always time to reset a discussion and carry on in a positive light :)
    And Not enough people ask questions like yours here and share their thoughts.

    Well now, aren't you just a little ray of sunshine?
    I believe the idea was from Jane Eyre, but I might be mistaking, when Jane is commenting on the appearance of Blanche Ingram :P "Beauty like her's must corrupt" or something like that.
    Anyway, Yes I'd say it does corrupt being honest, as from the moment a child is born the first remarks made are "Her Eyes! She has beautiful eyes" but of course most of those babies will not grow up to the beautiful, they'll be average or ugly. A few will posses great beauty and they'll get compliments all the way into adulthood, they'll be envied and admired, they'll get confidence and friends. And when their beauty leaves, when they wrinkle an sag that's when the corruption comes forth because people are looking through them at the younger fitter model behind their backs. How can that not breed resentment and bitterness?


  • #14
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Battered tackies wrote: »
    I said psychology instead of philosophy- I think that just aids my point :)



    Well now, aren't you just a little ray of sunshine?
    I believe the idea was from Jane Eyre, but I might be mistaking, when Jane is commenting on the appearance of Blanche Ingram :P "Beauty like her's must corrupt" or something like that.
    Anyway, Yes I'd say it does corrupt being honest, as from the moment a child is born the first remarks made are "Her Eyes! She has beautiful eyes" but of course most of those babies will not grow up to the beautiful, they'll be average or ugly. A few will posses great beauty and they'll get compliments all the way into adulthood, they'll be envied and admired, they'll get confidence and friends. And when their beauty leaves, when they wrinkle an sag that's when the corruption comes forth because people are looking through them at the younger fitter model behind their backs. How can that not breed resentment and bitterness?
    Hahah yes I am a ray of sunshine, as well as a dark destroyer :D I am all things haha

    Ah so thats where you heard it! the context is nice to hear too.
    I think your spot on when it comes to beauty and people, culture, society.
    If we were to break the topic down like we have though, it seems I cannot agree!
    But I am ok living two apposing ideas :D They are both correct in my eyes.


This discussion has been closed.
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