One-off houses: Good or Bad?

FF and proud · 01-12-2010 1:58am

I think all them city dwellers do be jealous when they see people living in nice cozy bungalows with big gardens and surrounded by the fresh air. Sure I dont blame them for been jealous when their stuck with all that crime, pollution and tiny apartments that ye couldnt swing a cat in, but just because their jealous of the country people and their opportunity to build a nice house for themselves, it doesnt give them the right to try and stop them.

Our family have lived here for 6 generations, and I wont be havin any members of an Taisce telling me that I cant live here.

dubhthach · 01-12-2010 9:14am

FF and proud wrote: »

Our family have lived here for 6 generations, and I wont be havin any members of an Taisce telling me that I cant live here.

In another 6 generations there won't be any countryside left due to the suburbanization of the countryside by one off developments

antoobrien · 01-12-2010 10:03am

dubhthach wrote: »

In another 6 generations there won't be any countryside left due to the suburbanization of the countryside by one off developments

nah, the city councils and property developers will do that long before one offs do.

25 years ago the eastern edge of ;'urban' galway was more or less the ballybane road (through mervue). There was some development (like castlepark, ballybrit heights) and lurgan park, but very little more.

Over the past 10 years the boundry of the developed galway city (actual city boundry is in the same spot afaik) has come out to the briahill rab. At the same rate, we'll have housing estates to the current N18 before 2040.

On the other hand there have been hundreds of one offs built along boreens but nobody has noticed (unless you go down the roads).

FF and proud · 01-12-2010 3:02pm

dubhthach wrote: »

In another 6 generations there won't be any countryside left due to the suburbanization of the countryside by one off developments

Ah dont be dramatising now, sure only about one percent of the land is used for housing, the rest is just grass for the animals to eat.

Pete_Cavan · 01-12-2010 3:19pm

FF and proud wrote: »

I think all them city dwellers do be jealous when they see people living in nice cozy bungalows with big gardens and surrounded by the fresh air. Sure I dont blame them for been jealous when their stuck with all that crime, pollution and tiny apartments that ye couldnt swing a cat in, but just because their jealous of the country people and their opportunity to build a nice house for themselves, it doesnt give them the right to try and stop them.

Our family have lived here for 6 generations, and I wont be havin any members of an Taisce telling me that I cant live here.

It is very fitting that some one whose attitude to housing is basically "I should be allowed to do whatever I want, regardless of the consequences, and somebody else can pick up the tab" should have such a user name. It is almost funny, almost... <sigh>

01-12-2010 4:10pm

FF and proud wrote: »

Ah dont be dramatising now, sure only about one percent of the land is used for housing, the rest is just grass for the animals to eat.

Without agriculture, we'd go hungry. Anyway, I have no objections to anyone who wants to live in the countryside as long as they are prepared to live with the consequences!

antoobrien · 02-12-2010 10:08am

Ernest Important Illness wrote: »

Without agriculture, we'd go hungry. Anyway, I have no objections to anyone who wants to live in the countryside as long as they are prepared to live with the consequences!

Like not having to smell car exhaust the whole time, put up with poor sewage & worse water, not having to listen to noisy (and nosey) neighbors, not having to tell the estate's management committee to get lost until they get the sewage issue fixed, not having to wonder if i can get the car out of the housing estate this week and especially the lack of door to door salesdroids.

Yup i'd like to live with those consequences.

Stonewolf · 02-12-2010 10:37am

Obvious troll is obvious

KevR · 02-12-2010 11:11am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

It is very fitting that some one whose attitude to housing is basically "I should be allowed to do whatever I want, regardless of the consequences, and somebody else can pick up the tab" should have such a user name. It is almost funny, almost... <sigh>

This type of mentality is rife in Ireland. There is also a blame mentality here. It's a disastrous mix.

"How dare you tell me where I can or can't build/live; I will build/live wherever I want. It's my land and I'll do what I want"

It rains for a month solid, nearby river bursts its banks, house floods and...

"The County Council should never have given me planning permission to build on a flood plain. I'm going to try and sue them; they should be held responsible."

It would be funny if it wasn't true!

02-12-2010 12:05pm

KevR wrote: »

This type of mentality is rife in Ireland. There is also a blame mentality here. It's a disastrous mix.

"How dare you tell me where I can or can't build/live; I will build/live wherever I want. It's my land and I'll do what I want"

It rains for a month solid, nearby river bursts its banks, house floods and...

"The County Council should never have given me planning permission to build on a flood plain. I'm going to try and sue them; they should be held responsible."

It would be funny if it wasn't true!

Yes, some people are just plain stupid! I have no sympathy for people who build on flood plains, but some for those who were mislead into buying a house on a floodplain.

Aidan1 · 02-12-2010 2:58pm

"The County Council should never have given me planning permission to build on a flood plain. I'm going to try and sue them; they should be held responsible."

That's an issue, but the big beartrap out there is with regard to water quality.

The vast majority of the one off rural houses built over the last 30-40 years have very rudimentary sewerage/waste water facilities, ranging from badly built septic tanks to outflows into rivers. Planners have been trying to enforce increasingly strict rules over what is allowed, but there has been a long history of political interference, and with cases being overturned on appeal.

Two problems arise. The first is that we are subject to a number of Directives on Water Quality and Nitrates, which limit the amount of pollution we allow into our watercourses and groundwater (boo hiss, nasty EU etc). If, or rather when, we breach those, we will all, nationally, have to pay for the haphazard application of planning laws. Again, a cross subsidy from the urban to the rural.

The second issue is around drinking water quality. Many of those rural households in Group Water Schemes already have a serious issue with drinking water quality. This is partly a location specific geological/hydrological issue, and partly down to the time at which rural areas became increasingly populated. There are regular calls for the State to 'provide clean drinking water' in rural areas. This would (or rather 'will') involve a huge cost to the State, again to clean up the mess belonging to those who wanted to live in the country. Secondly, even urban drinking water is affected - the Galway situation a few years ago being pertinent. Raw sewage flowing into water courses overwhelmed an already shaky treatment plant. Again, another effective cross subsidy from urban dwellers to clean up the (on going) mess caused by one off rural housing.

JupiterKid · 02-12-2010 4:57pm

One off rural housing has been overwhelmingly bad for this country. It represents all that is wrong with Irish planning and an immature, selfish attitude to sharing common resources. The septic tank waste water issue is but one of several problems caused by this dispersed, unsustainable pattern of development.

If the price of oil and thus petrol and diesel fuel for cars was to skyrocket (as it may well do when "peak oil" arrives) it would render much one off housing unviable.

Another problem created by one off housing is its negative effects on rural towns, especially the medium sized ones.

There is no doubt in my mind that the potential development of these towns has been held back by rural one off housing in thier hinterlands and an over concentration of local authority/social housing clustered in these towns giving them a "bad" reputation and resulting in a vicious circle of decline for these towns.

02-12-2010 5:51pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

One off rural housing has been overwhelmingly bad for this country. It represents all that is wrong with Irish planning and an immature, selfish attitude to sharing common resources. The septic tank waste water issue is but one of several problems caused by this dispersed, unsustainable pattern of development.

If the price of oil and thus petrol and diesel fuel for cars was to skyrocket (as it may well do when "peak oil" arrives) it would render much one off housing unviable.

Another problem created by one off housing is its negative effects on rural towns, especially the medium sized ones.

There is no doubt in my mind that the potential development of these towns has been held back by rural one off housing in thier hinterlands and an over concentration of local authority/social housing clustered in these towns giving them a "bad" reputation and resulting in a vicious circle of decline for these towns.

I have to agree with most of this, but as you correctly say, fuel prices will eventually kill the remote rural one-off, unless the owners are providing a local service. Long distance commuting will soon be a thing of the past, people will start to migrate to where the work is, rather than choosing to live in one place and working in another.

As for my own house, well, I have above average insulation and a proper sewerage system, not a septic tank. Hopefully I'll be retired before the worst affects of peak oil hit and have a local job sooner!

FF and proud · 02-12-2010 6:41pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

One off rural housing has been overwhelmingly bad for this country. It represents all that is wrong with Irish planning and an immature, selfish attitude to sharing common resources. The septic tank waste water issue is but one of several problems caused by this dispersed, unsustainable pattern of development.

If the price of oil and thus petrol and diesel fuel for cars was to skyrocket (as it may well do when "peak oil" arrives) it would render much one off housing unviable.

Another problem created by one off housing is its negative effects on rural towns, especially the medium sized ones.

There is no doubt in my mind that the potential development of these towns has been held back by rural one off housing in thier hinterlands and an over concentration of local authority/social housing clustered in these towns giving them a "bad" reputation and resulting in a vicious circle of decline for these towns.

I dont buy into all that peak oil stuff, sure isnt solar power coming along soon? And anyway I couldnt care less, id rather go about in a horse and cart if the oil ran out than live in some crime ridden, rat infested city. Them people have the right to live there for generations and sure their doing no harm to anybody. The city peoples are just trying to get them out of nothing more than jealousy, sure why else with all the attacks? It just doesnt add up at all.

Amtmann · 02-12-2010 7:21pm

FF and proud wrote: »

I dont buy into all that peak oil stuff, sure isnt solar power coming along soon? And anyway I couldnt care less, id rather go about in a horse and cart if the oil ran out than live in some crime ridden, rat infested city. Them people have the right to live there for generations and sure their doing no harm to anybody. The city peoples are just trying to get them out of nothing more than jealousy, sure why else with all the attacks? It just doesnt add up at all.

Okay, I'm going to exercise my moderator's discretion and say that I think you're a troll. An amusing troll, but a troll nonetheless. Either the quality of your posts improves, or you may find your access restricted.

JupiterKid · 21-12-2010 2:04am

I was talking on the phone to a friend today about the bad weather and the snow and icy conditions and he told me that his parents, who had retired to live in a one-off rural house some years ago, could no longer stand being isolated in this weather and were seriously thinking of moving to a city location to be close to shops and amenities in the event of more winters like this one.

This got me thinking. This is the second very cold winter in a row and it is abundantly clear that the local authorities cannot clear access to the dwellers of much one-off rural housing because of its highly dispersed nature.

If we have more winters like this one, could this mean the beginning of the end of the era of one-off rural housing? Could dwellers in this type of housing be made to think twice by the snow and icy conditions isolating them?

No one likes to be isolated in snow to the point of feeling powerless and trapped, especially in the event of an emergency.

21-12-2010 9:02am

I think that the cost of heating such a large house will be the killer for many, the wife was telling me that some of her friends who live in large houses are really feeling the cold in the mornings as they are trying to cut back on the heating. Not an exclusive one-off issue but most large houses are one-offs. So glad I exceed the insulation regulations when I built!

wiseguy · 21-12-2010 11:37am

Ernest Important Illness wrote: »

I think that the cost of heating such a large house will be the killer for many, the wife was telling me that some of her friends who live in large houses are really feeling the cold in the mornings as they are trying to cut back on the heating. Not an exclusive one-off issue but most large houses are one-offs. So glad I exceed the insulation regulations when I built!

Painting everyone with same brush again :rolleyes:

My "one off" has pumped extra wide cavity, foam insulation on the slope and closing off every nook and crany, wool insulation between floors, foilbacked slabs and underfloor insulation, added to low E argon triple glazing, heat recovery ventilation system to keep heat in and bring in fresh air
and has achieved passive house airtightness levels.

I spend less on heating than parents spend on a semi-D which is 4x smaller.
A small build-in and sealed stove with its independent air supply can heat the whole house and was in the last few weeks exceptional cold.

Beat that :rolleyes:

21-12-2010 12:03pm

wiseguy wrote: »

Painting everyone with same brush again :rolleyes:

My "one off" has pumped extra wide cavity, foam insulation on the slope and closing off every nook and crany, wool insulation between floors, foilbacked slabs and underfloor insulation, added to low E argon triple glazing, heat recovery ventilation system to keep heat in and bring in fresh air
and has achieved passive house airtightness levels.

I spend less on heating than parents spend on a semi-D which is 4x smaller.
A small build-in and sealed stove with its independent air supply can heat the whole house and was in the last few weeks exceptional cold.

Beat that :rolleyes:

200mm ICF wall construction, 200 eps in the floors, 400mm rockwool in the roof double glazed low E windows, Heat recovery ventillation.

10m2 solar panels & biomass boiler to support the oil boiler.
Good enough!

I was referring to the vast majority who just built them as big as possible without regard to heating them.

wiseguy · 21-12-2010 12:22pm

Ernest Important Illness wrote: »

200mm ICF wall construction, 200 eps in the floors, 400mm rockwool in the roof double glazed low E windows, Heat recovery ventillation.

10m2 solar panels & biomass boiler to support the oil boiler.
Good enough!

I was referring to the vast majority who just built them as big as possible without regard to heating them.

Yeh I didn't mention the solar for the hot water

its a requirement/law nowadays for new-builds to have something renewable
If there are people out there who skimped on insulating their new homes, then I bet they are regretting it this xmas
then again its their problem leave them freeze, but painting everyone with same brush is wrong,

i can do the same > most of the coldest and dampest homes I seen and lived on was in the cities.
And they are very very expensive to insulate properly as compared to a home thats being build from scratch where you can pay attention to details such as cold bridging and airtightness from the first brick

21-12-2010 2:19pm

wiseguy wrote: »

Yeh I didn't mention the solar for the hot water its a requirement/law nowadays for new-builds to have something renewable
If there are people out there who skimped on insulating their new homes, then I bet they are regretting it this xmas
then again its their problem leave them freeze, but painting everyone with same brush is wrong,

i can do the same > most of the coldest and dampest homes I seen and lived on was in the cities.
And they are very very expensive to insulate properly as compared to a home thats being build from scratch where you can pay attention to details such as cold bridging and airtightness from the first brick

I agree totally.

PS I live out in the sticks as well

JupiterKid · 21-12-2010 7:42pm

Heating and insulation of rural one-off houses is not the issue in my post, although it's an interesting issue in itself.

The issue is that of one-ioff rural houses being cut off from supplies and amenities by the heavy snows. Oil supplies for your heating restricted because the oil tanker can't get down your road due to the snow and ice, not being able to go to the shops to stock up on food, fuel (coal, wood) not being able to get to schools, workplaces etc.

Employers in cities may start to see employees who live in remote locations that become snowed in very easily as liabilities.

This winter will show up many one-off rural houses for the folly that they are.

Jehuty42 · 21-12-2010 8:51pm

I know of two guys in my college class who live in one-offs in (what I would call) the country, one in the Naul and one in Kildare. Haven't seen them in over a month now, due to snow, they just can't get to college.

knipex · 22-12-2010 9:37am

JupiterKid wrote: »

Heating and insulation of rural one-off houses is not the issue in my post, although it's an interesting issue in itself.

The issue is that of one-ioff rural houses being cut off from supplies and amenities by the heavy snows. Oil supplies for your heating restricted because the oil tanker can't get down your road due to the snow and ice, not being able to go to the shops to stock up on food, fuel (coal, wood) not being able to get to schools, workplaces etc.

Employers in cities may start to see employees who live in remote locations that become snowed in very easily as liabilities.

This winter will show up many one-off rural houses for the folly that they are.

Absolute crap.

Anyone who ives rurally (not just one off houses) has enough sense to ensure they have enough oil for winter. They also ensure they have coal etc in.

What would happen in Dublin if gas was cut off for a few days this week ?
Look at the uproar because the council wont thaw the footpaths, look at the uproar when the buses dont run. Look at the chaos when a little snow fell. I have had 4 meetings int eh Dublin area cancelled int eh last couple of weeks due to people not being able to make it due to snow. In two of those cases I was only told after I arrived and on the third i was half way there.

I drove from West Limerick they were coming from local areas.

The local group water scheme froze last week yet no-one is without water (those of us with wells have rigged up temporary supplies for those that were cut off.

We haven't seen a council worker in years let alone or a gritter but we are all making it to work and have gritted the worst sections ourselves.

Life is actually running pretty normally.

Anyone that claims not to have been able to travel for a month due to snow is lying,. We had a week long thaw between the two freezes. During the last freeze we did work in Mayo, Cork, Kerry, Derry, Dublin and its surrounds with no issues.

As an employer who's offices are based in a city I can categorically say that your talking rubbish.

Aard · 22-12-2010 10:56am

I hope everybody is as prepared as you are, knipex.

You mention that anybody who lives rurally has the sense to provision. I would think that many one-offers are from an urban background and have no idea how to properly provision for such abnormal weather. You're right about urbanites, in a sense, having it a bit easier than rural folk, but it is exactly us lazy city-slickers who have moved to the sticks and now don't know what to do.

(This isn't an argument for or against one-offs, btw, just an observation about the background of such dwellers, and their abilities to cope.)

busman · 22-12-2010 12:32pm

Aard wrote: »

I hope everybody is as prepared as you are, knipex.

You mention that anybody who lives rurally has the sense to provision. I would think that many one-offers are from an urban background and have no idea how to properly provision for such abnormal weather. You're right about urbanites, in a sense, having it a bit easier than rural folk, but it is exactly us lazy city-slickers who have moved to the sticks and now don't know what to do.

(This isn't an argument for or against one-offs, btw, just an observation about the background of such dwellers, and their abilities to cope.)

The best argument I've I seen on this tread!
Simple solution ... all you city-slickers must pass a cultie test before coming out and taking our land and women

Proud to be country born and living in a one off house.

ForiegnNational · 22-12-2010 1:58pm

Provisioning is the reason that country houses tend to have larger storage areas (larders, large freezers, etc).

To be honest, if you move to the countryside and presume your under-counter fridge will keep you and your family of five going through bad weather (floods, ice/snow, high winds/fallen trees), then you deserve to starve.

Simple question, if you have an open fire at home, do you have a chainsaw? i.e. Are you in any way prepared to provide for yourself?

This question is valid even for town dwellers and has nothing to do with one-off dwellings. Can you provide or are you entirely dependent upon bought goods?

This is why you will also see a lot of animals such as chickens, ducks and geese, in the countryside which can be killed as/when needed or used for their eggs.

From living in the city myself, hardship is when your local pizza/takeaway can't deliver (facetious, but bear with me). Which is why weather only makes the news once Dublin suffers. The water rationing is a perfect example of urban dependence. You hear of the same in the countryside, but somehow they survive without the national outcry.

Just a thought...

JupiterKid · 22-12-2010 7:01pm

knipex wrote: »

Absolute crap.

Anyone who ives rurally (not just one off houses) has enough sense to ensure they have enough oil for winter. They also ensure they have coal etc in.

What would happen in Dublin if gas was cut off for a few days this week ?
Look at the uproar because the council wont thaw the footpaths, look at the uproar when the buses dont run. Look at the chaos when a little snow fell. I have had 4 meetings int eh Dublin area cancelled int eh last couple of weeks due to people not being able to make it due to snow. In two of those cases I was only told after I arrived and on the third i was half way there.

I drove from West Limerick they were coming from local areas.

The local group water scheme froze last week yet no-one is without water (those of us with wells have rigged up temporary supplies for those that were cut off.

We haven't seen a council worker in years let alone or a gritter but we are all making it to work and have gritted the worst sections ourselves.

Life is actually running pretty normally.

Anyone that claims not to have been able to travel for a month due to snow is lying,. We had a week long thaw between the two freezes. During the last freeze we did work in Mayo, Cork, Kerry, Derry, Dublin and its surrounds with no issues.

As an employer who's offices are based in a city I can categorically say that your talking rubbish.

Ah, I just love it when denizens of rural one-off houses get all defensive of their dwellings. :rolleyes:

I am not talking rubbish. Rural one-off houses are more difficult to service and access in snow and icy weather.

They tend to be more isolated and cut off in bad weather - no brainer. If people chose to live in these houses, fine, but don't whinge and moan at the local authority for being unable to clear and grit every country boreen and lane leading to these houses.

As I said before, a friend's parents are regretting their move to a rural one-off house becuase of these wintry conditions and being isolated and are considering moving back to the city. There must be a few who are thinking along the same lines.

danbohan · 22-12-2010 7:20pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ah, I just love it when denizens of rural one-off houses get all defensive of their dwellings. :rolleyes:

I am not talking rubbish. Rural one-off houses are more difficult to service and access in snow and icy weather.

They tend to be more isolated and cut off in bad weather - no brainer. If people chose to live in these houses, fine, but don't whinge and moan at the local authority for being unable to clear and grit every country boreen and lane leading to these houses.

As I said before, a friend's parents are regretting their move to a rural one-off house becuase of these wintry conditions and being isolated and are considering moving back to the city. There must be a few who are thinking along the same lines.

poor babies and all them nasty old smells too , bye then you will be missed !

L1011 · 22-12-2010 9:02pm

busman wrote: »

The best argument I've I seen on this tread!
Simple solution ... all you city-slickers must pass a cultie test before coming out and taking our land and women

Proud to be country born and living in a one off house.

If you could stop your equivalents* from selling sites (and claiming that those of us against the practice are jealous cause we "can't" do it) you won't have any problem with urban people stealing your women. Except those that turn up in Coppers :P

*country-born and resident

One-off houses: Good or Bad?

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