Racist "Joke" in Work Email

Das Kitty · 10-04-2008 8:49am #1

Thought there used to be a work problems forum but I can't find it.

This morning I received an incredibly racist joke in an email from a work colleague. It's full of bull about how immigrants are getting loads of handouts and free houses and stuff and then goes on to say how none of them have jobs. Now I've never met a Polish person without a job for a start.

Anyway I'm extremely offended that this guy, who I thought I knew, would think I would find this funny (it's not even a mildly amusing joke). Then, just as I'd finished replying to him to ask him not to send me on any racist forwards, I got it again, from someone else, again whom I thought I knew.

I'm sitting here raging. The list of people forwarding on this small-minded, inaccurate racist bull is really getting to me. I want to do more. It's supposed to be "Diversity and Inclusion" week here at work.

Should I notify HR about it? Now I'm not suggesting naming names or anything. I suppose I'm disheartened that A. So many people think like this, and B. That they think what seems like everyone in their address book feels the same way.

*cries*

dudara · 10-04-2008 8:49am

Moved to Work Problems.

dudara

Das Kitty · 10-04-2008 8:51am

Thanks, now I see where it is.

c - 13 · 10-04-2008 8:51am

It wasa joke. You didnt find it funny. End of story.

Do not under any circumstances draw HR into it INHO the **** will really hit the fan if you do, it generally involves tiightening email restrictions etc and the whole staff force will suffer as a result.

Just delete it from your inbox and think no more about it.

Zulu · 10-04-2008 8:52am

It you report it, you may as well be reporting their names as this can easily be got from the e-mail.
It's a pandoras box - do you want to open it?

challengemaster · 10-04-2008 8:53am

You're going to notify the HR about what? Them having a different sense of humour than yourself? That's excatly what it is.

Do you get just as uppidy when blonde jokes spread around?

biko · 10-04-2008 8:56am

Tricky one. You think you know people and then something like this happens.
Alt A
You could send the body of the message to HR and ask for them to clarify policy on work mail usage.

Alt B
However, it will not change the mindset of these people. Maybe you should just Reply to All in the mail and tell the original sender straight out what you think about jokes like these? Just to let them know that this stuff is not on. Perhaps other feel the same way as you?

Zulu · 10-04-2008 9:02am

Lets fact it it boils down to this:
You make a stand, hr get the e-mail, everyone is issued a warning, e-mail policies are restricted, you are ostracised.
Bodies may get fired if the mail is sent externally.

...but your moral high ground is maintained.

Your call.

Das Kitty · 10-04-2008 9:04am

Maybe I wouldn't have minded so much if it was actually funny, and to be funny there would have to be some truth in the message, which there isn't. The only way you could find it funny is if you agreed with what it was saying.

There's stuff in it like "Me Polish, me no work". Like WTF!

It's basically just listing out racist things, then putting a weak punchline at the end so they can say "it's only a joke"

I was just considering phoning the guy who's running the diversity week and letting him know that a racist email is being circulated.

You're right though, they could crack down on personal use of the email system then, and nobody wins.

I replied to the guy and told him not to forward me on this kind of bull, he just told me he was telling it like it is. Oh man.

The guy who sent it to me used to work with a Nigerian guy (who are also covered in the free-for-all) it's got me wondering if he was just pretending to be friendly with him and truly hated him for not being Irish.

Das Kitty · 10-04-2008 9:06am

Zulu wrote: »

Lets fact it it boils down to this:
You make a stand, hr get the e-mail, everyone is issued a warning, e-mail policies are restricted, you are ostracised.
Bodies may get fired if the mail is sent externally.

...but your moral high ground is maintained.

Your call.

I see what you're saying. But I just need to vent, so I thought I'd do it here first rather than picking up the phone.

Sherifu · 10-04-2008 9:10am

Das Kitty wrote: »

I see what you're saying. But I just need to vent, so I thought I'd do it here first rather than picking up the phone.

Good call tbh. I wouldn't report it. If it's that bad put it down to a bad joke, move on. Some people forward on emails whether they think they're funny or not imo.

biko · 10-04-2008 9:12am

Hey if you're not part of the solution you're part of the (xenophobic) problem. There is a time a place for jokes like that and it's not at work.

Actually it's at Lolocaust.

Zulu · 10-04-2008 9:17am

What I'd do is, reply to all the origional e-mail, but add critisims, ie:

"Me Polish, me no work". - 1/10, spelt Polish right, but pathetic attempt at humor.
"other racist crap" - 0/10, etc

Very poor over all effort, I got more fun reading through my daily influx of spam about cheap drugs. Unless I'm missing the part of this e-mail that states: "this is taken from a hick redneck web-site that encourages inter-family sexual relationships" then I'm really lost for words. Sufice to say, Billy/John/Mary, this is the lamest spam e-mail I've ever recieved.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
You go away and think about what you've done.

Ps: dosen't anyone know how to block a moron sender?

- should highlight your position, belittle and shame their's and HR doesn't need to get involved.

Zulu · 10-04-2008 9:18am

biko wrote: »

Hey if you're not part of the solution you're part of the (xenophobic) problem. There is a time a place for jokes like that and it's not at work.

Actually it's at Lolocaust.

That's true Biko, but reporting it isn't the only solution. You don't need to sacrifice yourself in order to be part of the solution. (see my other point)

Das Kitty · 10-04-2008 9:20am

Rang both people who forwarded it to me now and they know what I think, tried to keep my voice from going up but I probably failed.

Asked the first guy why he didn't forward it to his Nigerian "friend" as he does with all his other forwards. "Because he's black". So I told him if he believes this kind of thing he should be open about it and not act friendly to someone's face then peddle this kind of rubbish behind his back.

Don't think I'll be getting any forwards at all from either of them anymore, no loss, it's all rubbish about dying kids needing email forwards and such.

Sherifu · 10-04-2008 9:21am

biko wrote: »

Hey if you're not part of the solution you're part of the (xenophobic) problem. There is a time a place for jokes like that and it's not at work.

Actually it's at Lolocaust.

If the OP thinks reporting it is worth the trouble then they should go for it.

Das Kitty wrote: »

Rang both people who forwarded it to me now and they know what I think, tried to keep my voice from going up but I probably failed.

Asked the first guy why he didn't forward it to his Nigerian "friend" as he does with all his other forwards. "Because he's black". So I told him if he believes this kind of thing he should be open about it and not act friendly to someone's face then peddle this kind of rubbish behind his back.

Don't think I'll be getting any forwards at all from either of them anymore, no loss, it's all rubbish about dying kids needing email forwards and such.

Just saw this post now. Well handled.

Das Kitty · 10-04-2008 9:22am

Zulu wrote: »

What I'd do is, reply to all the origional e-mail, but add critisims, ie:

"Me Polish, me no work". - 1/10, spelt Polish right, but pathetic attempt at humor.
"other racist crap" - 0/10, etc

Very poor over all effort, I got more fun reading through my daily influx of spam about cheap drugs. Unless I'm missing the part of this e-mail that states: "this is taken from a hick redneck web-site that encourages inter-family sexual relationships" then I'm really lost for words. Sufice to say, Billy/John/Mary, this is the lamest spam e-mail I've ever recieved.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
You go away and think about what you've done.

Ps: dosen't anyone know how to block a moron sender?

- should highlight your position, belittle and shame their's and HR doesn't need to get involved.

LOL, I wish I had such eloquence!

kev_s88 · 10-04-2008 9:52am

Das Kitty wrote: »

Maybe I wouldn't have minded so much if it was actually funny, and to be funny there would have to be some truth in the message, which there isn't. The only way you could find it funny is if you agreed with what it was saying.

There's stuff in it like "Me Polish, me no work". Like WTF!

It's basically just listing out racist things, then putting a weak punchline at the end so they can say "it's only a joke"

I was just considering phoning the guy who's running the diversity week and letting him know that a racist email is being circulated.

You're right though, they could crack down on personal use of the email system then, and nobody wins.

I replied to the guy and told him not to forward me on this kind of bull, he just told me he was telling it like it is. Oh man.

The guy who sent it to me used to work with a Nigerian guy (who are also covered in the free-for-all) it's got me wondering if he was just pretending to be friendly with him and truly hated him for not being Irish.

look just because he sent around an e-mail with inaccurate info about foreigners that they thought was funny, does not make them a racist.let them live in their own little world where they find stuff like that funny.but there is no need to report them and that is possibly one of the worst things you could do.

so its not your cup of tea.let it go.its not your place to report them.if they deserve it then they'll get whats coming to them

Zulu · 10-04-2008 10:08am

Das Kitty wrote: »

LOL, I wish I had such eloquence!

Thanks!

Thats what copy and paste is for

Fysh · 10-04-2008 10:35am

....

I don't know what's weirder, that there are significant numbers of people out there who think it's appropriate to disseminate these kind of emails through work email accounts, or that there are even greater numbers of people whose response to a complaint about this is "don't rock the boat, they're not really racists just because they come out with blatantly xenophobic statements".

1) Workplace email accounts tend to have an acceptable use policy. Personal content tends to be allowed within reason, but there are usually pretty clear-cut rules against material which could be considered incitement to hatred.

2) Particularly during Diversity week it's a good idea to make someone in the company aware that such material is being disseminated (this doesn't necessarily have to involve naming names, although these can be quite easily retrieved from their mailserver if they decide it's important). I'm not sure about Irish legislation, but under UK legislation companies cannot use ignorance as a defence for allowing discriminatory behaviour to take place. Allowing these kind of emails to continue to circulate may mean that the company (and by extension everyone's job) is at legal risk.

3) I can't imagine there would be significant negative consequences to reporting this kind of behaviour; at worst, a few people don't talk to the OP anymore. Whether that's likely a problem is down to the OP.

(I've had several arguments with people about making racist & xenophobic comments, although never in a workplace context - in my experience, once the people concerned realise that you're serious and really do have a problem with what they're saying, they'll avoid bringing the subject up around you, which is realistically about the best thing you can hope for. It takes more than facts to change the mind of a bigot, unfortunately...)

L31mr0d · 10-04-2008 11:49am

I'd be curious to know if the OP is also offended by blonde and kerryman jokes. Or any of the plethora of jokes about the elderly, or any of the anti-bush/US jokes, or any of the jokes that poke fun at the misfortunes of others, or jokes about the recently deceased, or jokes about how married people obviously hate each other.

I mean why do we find clip shows so funny, I mean these people are getting hurt and we're laughing at them.

I view jokes about nationalities the same as I view any of the other cornucopia of jokes that generalize a group of people into sharing the same traits... just that, A. JOKE.

However, I will agree that in a professional environment jokes and chain mails should not be sent around. But I wouldn't agree that the sender of the joke was being a proponent of racist material. Show me one "funny" joke that doesn't generalize at least one group of people.

Das Kitty · 10-04-2008 12:09pm

Not adversed to a sick joke, no.

I have the book of Sick Jokes from B3ta.

I don't think stringing together a load of racist remarks then adding a "punchline" is a joke though. It basically was saying, all these immigrants get all the free stuff whilst we Irish have to work for it.

As I said before you could only find this "joke" funny if you were actually a racist. If you're a member of the BNP you'd probably think it was hilarious.

L31mr0d · 10-04-2008 1:15pm

Das Kitty wrote: »

Not adversed to a sick joke, no.

I have the book of Sick Jokes from B3ta.

I don't think stringing together a load of racist remarks then adding a "punchline" is a joke though. It basically was saying, all these immigrants get all the free stuff whilst we Irish have to work for it.

As I said before you could only find this "joke" funny if you were actually a racist. If you're a member of the BNP you'd probably think it was hilarious.

your reasoning astounds me. Not only are you using a blatant generalization to defend your arguement that generalizing races is wrong, but you are also saying that a book which pokes fun at mental disorders and makes light of the holocaust is somehow more politically correct than the email you received about Polish people?

I actually find it very hypocritical of you to own the B3ta sickjoke book and then take it upon yourself to call these individuals and make them feel like lower class citizens because you only seem to have a nerve thats twinged when it comes to immigrants.

astonishing

mikemac · 10-04-2008 1:19pm

Remember the incident that happened at Morgan Stanly (could of been JP Morgan, not sure??) in Dublin about two years ago
Jokes were circulating and one of them was sent externally to a client. The client then reported it to management
Heads rolled!

About 5 or 6 people sacked and about 20 people disciplined.
Bascically if you forwarded the email it was enough to get you in trouble.

That sort of email can entail an instant sacking for gross misconduct.
But do you realy want to do that? Up to you.

We’ve another office in Cork and I’ve sent around emails making fun of Cork people (it isn’t hard

)
I hope I wouldn’t be sacked for such a joke……
I used to get plently of jokes about President Bush, I didn't find them funny at all and pretty disrespectful but I don't think I'd try to get somebody fired for it

Das Kitty · 10-04-2008 1:53pm

L31mr0d wrote: »

your reasoning astounds me. Not only are you using a blatant generalization to defend your arguement that generalizing races is wrong, but you are also saying that a book which pokes fun at mental disorders and makes light of the holocaust is somehow more politically correct than the email you received about Polish people?

I actually find it very hypocritical of you to own the B3ta sickjoke book and then take it upon yourself to call these individuals and make them feel like lower class citizens because you only seem to have a nerve thats twinged when it comes to immigrants.

astonishing

My argument was never that generalising races is wrong.

My argument was that there is a difference between a joke and a racist tirade about how immigrants are taking our money and sitting on their arses, badly disguised as a joke.

I didn't make anyone feel like a lower class citizen, I rang them up and registered my displeasure at the email.

pow wow · 10-04-2008 5:40pm

If you feel that strongly about it then report it. You don't have to name names necessarily - you could just print it obscuring the senders etc. and most likely an email will come out from HR saying that kind of thing won't be tolerated.

I don't know if you're offended by the 'humour' (or lack thereof) or the fact your colleagues would think you're 'that' kind of person. You maybe need to decide which one it is first, as your colleagues' perception of you isn't really a HR issue.

Das Kitty · 10-04-2008 7:19pm

Both really!

I talked to them both on the phone and told them what I thought about it. I wanted to do something but I realise that opening up an investigation wasn't really the way to go. Even if it makes them think about it a bit it's better than nothing.

We were all happy out again by lunch time and we had a bit of a joke about how much we need the diversity training we're getting in the morning.

nesf · 10-04-2008 7:24pm

Fysh wrote: »

I don't know what's weirder, that there are significant numbers of people out there who think it's appropriate to disseminate these kind of emails through work email accounts, or that there are even greater numbers of people whose response to a complaint about this is "don't rock the boat, they're not really racists just because they come out with blatantly xenophobic statements".

Because just because one idiot saying something stupid isn't worth the hassle that dragging HR into it would cause? Unless you work in an extremely big workplace dragging HR in is going to cause grief, tension and badness and basically get you ostracised because people will be afraid to say anything around you in case you make a complaint. Some people automatically take the moral high ground at the slightest opportunity and revel in how they "stood up to it" (The OP isn't one of these). These people are really not the kind of people that are nice to work with. Official complaints are for serious problems, not some minor misjudgement of humour on the part of someone. There's a big distinction between a sexist/whatever joke being told between two or more people who find it amusing and it being used to actively harass someone. One is a case for a quiet word and a request to not be forwarded it, the other is a case for HR and more serious measures. If these emails were being deliberately forwarded to immigrant employees and there were constant "under the breath" comments about them being made in corridors or similar it'd be a completely different situation.

WindSock · 11-04-2008 11:19am

Sounds to me that the joke just didn't tickle your funny bone. If it was a racist joke that you laughed at, it would probably be a different story.

PauloMN · 11-04-2008 12:58pm

WindSock wrote: »

Sounds to me that the joke just didn't tickle your funny bone. If it was a racist joke that you laughed at, it would probably be a different story.

Yes, it seems that way, the OP said:

Maybe I wouldn't have minded so much if it was actually funny, and to be funny there would have to be some truth in the message, which there isn't. The only way you could find it funny is if you agreed with what it was saying.

Sometimes I find stereotypes funny, even when they are not true. I laugh about Irish stereotypes as well. Sometimes they are just not funny, but it's good that you didn't get HR involved in the whole thing.

I think to say you can only find something funny if you agree with it is ridiculous though.

L31mr0d · 11-04-2008 2:01pm

WindSock wrote: »

Sounds to me that the joke just didn't tickle your funny bone. If it was a racist joke that you laughed at, it would probably be a different story.

ditto. Nothing about what the OP has detailed thus far leads to any other conclusion. The OP has already admitted having no problem with jokes that marginalize various different groups of people as long as they are funny. But if its a joke that, due to the OP's personal taste, isn't found to be funny then it is clearly rascist material. Double standards imo.

Racist "Joke" in Work Email

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