The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

cavan4sam · 24-01-2015 11:39pm

Thunderbirds wrote: »

So why just discredit the first half?

I just think that tyrone were never in danger.
i was impressed with our first half but was not naive enough to think that we were going to do the same in the 2nd half
we were lost for a few big men on a heavy pitch. Gearoid was a big miss as was the likes of (even with all their faults) givney and keating
The goal was perhaps unfortunate but as tom said its only January !!!!

Tom Joad · 24-01-2015 11:41pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I watched the game tonight and felt that Cavan needed a big target man in the second half. Probably needed two. The short hand-passing game had absolutely no effect in the second-half at all. In fact you need a free-taker too. A 40 yards free ended up being played short and a Cavan man was dispossessed on his own 50 yard line as a result.
Tyrone's subs changed the game in the second half. Mickey is a brilliant tactician.

Agree that we are crying out for someone to act as a target man but there are no obvious candidates. Maybe Argue or Killian Clarke (I'm struggling to think of others). The Cavan subs in contrast to Tyrone's were more of the same (even smaller,lighter forwards) which didn't change things.

You do have to credit Tyrone for the way they approach this competition and the changes they made which completely altered the course of the game.

They also have a cuteness Cavan don't have and never panic - Cavan had two straightforward chances to score directly after the Tyrone goal which would have made it a one point game but between Dunnie going for goal which was never on and panicing we got neither and that made a massive difference to the outcome.

rrs · 24-01-2015 11:56pm

Conor Madden would be a obvious target man, was in good form in the O Byrne Cup with DIT. He will be with the U21s so probaly won't be drafted in until the u21 campaign is over.

rrs · 25-01-2015 12:34am

On the game it self, it was a good first half but very disappointing second half. Cavan's third game in a week, Tyrone had 3 as well but they were already qualifed when they had played Antrim last week, they also made 13 changes from that game to the Armagh mid week - and then 12 changes for tonights game. Mattie Donnelly, Darren McCurry, Peter Harte all making a difference when they came on at half time

The likes of Rory Dunne, McKeever, Martin Reilly, Damien Reilly, Niall McDermott, Dara McVeety, Gilsenan, started 3 games in a week, tough going at this time of year.

Tom Joad · 26-01-2015 1:28pm

From Cavan GAA

NOTICE: ALLIANZ LEAGUE GAME V ROSCOMMON IS ALL TICKET.
Due to a capacity issue, next Sunday's 1st Feb Allianz Football League game
v Roscommon in Kiltoom is ALL TICKET.

You MUST have a ticket to enter the ground. Please purchase your ticket
early as capacity is limited.

Tickets are on sale in usual outlets and also in Kingspan Breffni
Park.

willabur · 26-01-2015 1:36pm

Just because a guy is big doesn't mean he should be a 'target man'. Full forward is a position that is suited to very few people, natural midfielders are going to struggle with their backs to goal because the position and situation you find yourself in is so radically different from the middle of the field that it bares little if no resemblance. Keating is the best one we have had in recent years, he is excellent at winning ball that has been targeted in to the full forward line. It was his decision making afterwards that was his let down

willabur · 26-01-2015 1:39pm

Regarding the game the other night. Tyrone upped the intensity of the game the other night at Half time and we couldn't live with it. Our lads looked heavy legged, this short passing game we have is fine but only works when it is played at a high tempo, you need direct runners, breaking lines and committing defenders so the positive pass can take him out of the game. Once Tyrone upped the ante our boys just fell off them

rrs · 26-01-2015 2:20pm

Roscommon is a tough opener away next weekend, no easy games as is in Div2 but they are in good form after winning the FBD yesterday.

Tom Joad · 26-01-2015 5:59pm

Getting the scores to win matches is going to be a huge issue in the League and I agree with Willabur that it's more than putting a big man as the target man. Niall McDermott is a good example of this in that he can win ball and rarely wastes it, without necessarily being a "big man" and he has been the best forward in the county for the last few years - in my opinion. I do expect him to be our main go to man in terms of hitting the ball in. Aside from Martin Dunne, who will chip in with scores, there is not too many that come to mind as being able to win the ball being put in and cause opposition teams problems as Keating done in the past.

I don't think it's for want of the Management team looking at everyone that's out there.

Last year in the 8 league (incl league final games) Cavan scored 4-107. 1-24 of this was scored by Eugene Keating, David Givney and Kevin Tierney so that's 22% of our points in the league were scored by 3 players who are unavailable this year and the so called big target men!

Similarly in the 3 championship games, Cavan scored 1-29 with 7 points scored by Givney and Keating (24% of our total points).

We have tried a lot of forwards in the league and championship last year so everyone has had a run out at this stage. Other players featured in the forward line were Turloc Mooney, PhilipTinnelly, Packie Leddy, Paul O'Connor, Chris Conroy, Mickey Lyng, Kevin Murray, Jack Brady. Barry Reilly has featured this year too.

Of the Juniors who were scoring regularly Enda Reilly and Enda Hession were the stand out forwards but don't really fit the target man bill.

Of the under 21s, Joe Dillon (injured and not a target man), Paul Graham, Tom Hayes (will probably get a jersey and a fine prospect but not a target man) and Michael Argue were the main score getters.

Of that list of players, for Argue stands out head and shoulders (pardon the pun) as a target man and a consistent scorer - he was hitting about 4 points a game from a deeper role in the under 21s this year.

Edit: Conor Madden is another possible addition to that list.

Apart from that there is no-one at club football (aside from a certain Gaels player) that stands out that hasn't been tried. Only conclusion is that we don't have target men available to us (aside from Argue).

celt262 · 27-01-2015 8:11am

You could have had the bomber Liston in there the other night and it wouldn't have mad a big difference. The team lost its shape and the half forwards came to deep and left the lads inside isolated and the ball in was cut out way to easy.

Tom Joad · 27-01-2015 10:59am

celt262 wrote: »

You could have had the bomber Liston in there the other night and it wouldn't have mad a big difference. The team lost its shape and the half forwards came to deep and left the lads inside isolated and the ball in was cut out way to easy.

I disagree. Not giving the ball away cheaply is a huge part of modern GAA - it's why managers get so frustrated with forwards dropping the ball into the keepers arms and view a wide as better than that. It allows the other team to build when the attacking team is most vulnerable and don't have their shape.

I think the opposite is the case, if a team like Cavan are to succeed using the model they are they are crying out for a target man. If you don't have a target man who can make the ball stick you are left with a situation where you end up going sideways/backwards so as not to cough up possession easily and by the law of averages you will end up sometimes giving up possession cheaply.

Donegal/ Tyrone/ Armagh and others were successful using this system or adaptations of it because they had deadly accurate target men ala Murphy, O'Neill, Clarke. Cavan don't have that so we are caught between a rock and a hard place. The system we use is effective for staying in games and winning tight matches but we will never compete will the big boys at senior level without a target man - it's too easy to neutralise the system.

Every team in GAA that won things had a marquee forward in the target man mould and without that we simply won't advance to the next level which is where we should be aiming for.

celt262 · 27-01-2015 11:08am

Tom Joad wrote: »

I disagree. Not giving the ball away cheaply is a huge part of modern GAA - it's why managers get so frustrated with forwards dropping the ball into the keepers arms and view a wide as better than that. It allows the other team to build when the attacking team is most vulnerable and don't have their shape.

I think the opposite is the case, if a team like Cavan are to succeed using the model they are they are crying out for a target man. If you don't have a target man who can make the ball stick you are left with a situation where you end up going sideways/backwards so as not to cough up possession easily and by the law of averages you will end up sometimes giving up possession cheaply.

Donegal/ Tyrone/ Armagh and others were successful using this system or adaptations of it because they had deadly accurate target men ala Murphy, O'Neill, Clarke. Cavan don't have that so we are caught between a rock and a hard place. The system we use is effective for staying in games and winning tight matches but we will never compete will the big boys at senior level without a target man - it's too easy to neutralise the system.

Every team in GAA that won things had a marquee forward in the target man mould and without that we simply won't advance to the next level which is where we should be aiming for.

I don't know if you get my point. In the second Cavan lost their shape completely in the forwards which played completed into Tyrone hands.

What use is it kicking a ball into someone with 3 men around him and nobody within 30 meters ?

What I am saying is that If the half forwards are in the vicinity of the half forward position they will have to be picked up and then the opposition cannot afford to have 2 or 3 men around our danger men inside.

Tom Joad · 27-01-2015 11:28am

celt262 wrote: »

I don't know if you get my point. In the second Cavan lost their shape completely in the forwards which played completed into Tyrone hands.

What use is it kicking a ball into someone with 3 men around him and nobody within 30 meters ?

What I am saying is that If the half forwards are in the vicinity of the half forward position they will have to be picked up and then the opposition cannot afford to have 2 or 3 men around our danger men inside.

Yes that was a part of the problem on Saturday night but if the half forwards stay in the half forward position the whole system we use falls assunder - to use the system effectively these have to be the spare defenders who crowd the man with the ball and give extra bodies to defend - if we abandoned that approach on Saturday night McCurry and McNulty would have bored even more holes in our defence. So I don't think the problem was where the half forwards were positioned. But the system does depend on the half forwards and wing backs breaking at speed to support the forward line which didn't happen either.

The only player who had the ability to win ball was Niall McDermott and Tyrone knew that (hell the world and his mother knew it). Cavan simply couldn't change the game from the sidelines as the bench was full of more light forwards to replace the light fowards who were completely nullified by Tyrone. If we had a target man on the edge of the square and McDermott/ Tom Hayes feeding off them - suddenly we have a viable way of making the system work and then give Tyrone something to think about and an out for the Cavan lads carrying the ball up the field.

I have seen Cavan play three times this year and the worrying thing is when we win the ball in our own half and look to break, too many times the runners are not in place to take the ball on, the man in possession can't kick the ball in as he sees someone like Hayes/ Brady / Dunne wrapped up so having been coached not to waste ball he has to go sideways or recyle. If we had a Murphy or McManus in there that ball could go in more often.

celt262 · 27-01-2015 11:52am

Tom Joad wrote: »

Yes that was a part of the problem on Saturday night but if the half forwards stay in the half forward position the whole system we use falls assunder - to use the system effectively these have to be the spare defenders who crowd the man with the ball and give extra bodies to defend - if we abandoned that approach on Saturday night McCurry and McNulty would have bored even more holes in our defence. So I don't think the problem was where the half forwards were positioned. But the system does depend on the half forwards and wing backs breaking at speed to support the forward line which didn't happen either.

The only player who had the ability to win ball was Niall McDermott and Tyrone knew that (hell the world and his mother knew it). Cavan simply couldn't change the game from the sidelines as the bench was full of more light forwards to replace the light fowards who were completely nullified by Tyrone. If we had a target man on the edge of the square and McDermott/ Tom Hayes feeding off them - suddenly we have a viable way of making the system work and then give Tyrone something to think about and an out for the Cavan lads carrying the ball up the field.

I have seen Cavan play three times this year and the worrying thing is when we win the ball in our own half and look to break, too many times the runners are not in place to take the ball on, the man in possession can't kick the ball in as he sees someone like Hayes/ Brady / Dunne wrapped up so having been coached not to waste ball he has to go sideways or recyle. If we had a Murphy or McManus in there that ball could go in more often.

We are in a spot of bother upfront and it's worse off we are this year compared to previous years.

There is a facebook page set up now called bring back Seanie that wont solve anything either though.

Hill St Blue · 01-02-2015 12:53am

I'll not make it down to Roscommon tomorrow. I'm still thawing out from Armagh last Saturday (both physically and mentally...Christ we had to listen to some moronic rubbish directed at our lads from the opposition's 'supporters' around us! Gas thing is, that hard and all as it was to listen to this year, last year's Final was worse...I've seen and heard a lot of auld guff at matches over the years, but that night took the biscuit!) Anyhoo, does anyone know if it'll be on the wireless?

Gallant_JJ · 01-02-2015 7:29pm

Just back in the door from Killtoom. Decent game of football. Martin Reilly immense throughout, Fergal Flannagan played well also. Gearoid was in and out of it throughout, his 4 points in the second half single handedly dragged Cavan back into it. McVeety also very industrious. Dunne and McDermott were poor, couldn't win their own ball in the first half, game really bypassed them in the second. Barry Reilly changed the game when he came on, very positive, first option was always to let the ball on. Onwards and upwards.

Thunderbirds · 01-02-2015 8:41pm

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

Just back in the door from Killtoom. Decent game of football. Martin Reilly immense throughout, Fergal Flannagan played well also. Gearoid was in and out of it throughout, his 4 points in the second half single handedly dragged Cavan back into it. McVeety also very industrious. Dunne and McDermott were poor, couldn't win their own ball in the first half, game really bypassed them in the second. Barry Reilly changed the game when he came on, very positive, first option was always to let the ball on. Onwards and upwards.

Good accurate report. For me Fergal Flanagan was our best player. Referee gave some strange decisions.

Tom Joad · 01-02-2015 11:25pm

Didn't make the match so had to rely on Northern Sound - decent performance by all accounts and nice to get an away point on the board - particularly against a team that many have as favourites for promotion.

rrs · 01-02-2015 11:39pm

A win next week in Laois would be a great start to the League. Begley wasn't playing for them today, must be carrying a knock. Be interesting to see if he plays Sigerson mid week for DCU.

Brendan Quigley got a straight red today and will the Cavan game, very good midfielder.

Crash Bang Wall · 02-02-2015 12:01pm

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

Just back in the door from Killtoom. Decent game of football. Martin Reilly immense throughout, Fergal Flannagan played well also. Gearoid was in and out of it throughout, his 4 points in the second half single handedly dragged Cavan back into it. McVeety also very industrious. Dunne and McDermott were poor, couldn't win their own ball in the first half, game really bypassed them in the second. Barry Reilly changed the game when he came on, very positive, first option was always to let the ball on. Onwards and upwards.

Dunne was a disgrace in the second half.....didnt even bother. Was in the terrace on the 21 for the second half looking straight at him. He didnt make runs, win his own ball or contest it. McDermott and Lyng found it tough, but they worked hard and contested more often than not. How Dunne lasted 68ish minutes I will never know. McKeevers distribution was poor and he was hooked at ht (rightly so). So why wasnt Dunne

Referee threatened to ruin a decent game. Ridiculous amount of soft frees given (to both sides) and the volume of cards was ridiculous. Missed an obvious Rossie black card in the first half when Martin Reilly was hauled down, and he gave the guy a yellow

Crash Bang Wall · 02-02-2015 12:02pm

rrs wrote: »

A win next week in Laois would be a great start to the League. Begley wasn't playing for them today, must be carrying a knock. Be interesting to see if he plays Sigerson mid week for DCU.

Brendan Quigley got a straight red today and will the Cavan game, very good midfielder.

A mate was at the Laois game, and he said Laois threw it away, but he also said 2 poor teams on show. Chance of a win in Portlaoise on Sat night so

cavan4sam · 07-02-2015 2:13pm

Heres hoping for a decent result against laois . I wouldn't be over confident going into it but at the same time don't think we should fear them.
A result here would give us great hope in a very tough division

baconsarnie · 07-02-2015 9:40pm

That's another fantastic performance (via Northern Sound). Definite shift in tactics (much welcome) but the intensity hasn't dropped.

Looking forward to getting home to the Down match

cavan4sam wrote: »

Heres hoping for a decent result against laois . I wouldn't be over confident going into it but at the same time don't think we should fear them.
A result here would give us great hope in a very tough division

Jampip · 08-02-2015 12:07am

Fantastic result this evening. Long time lurker on Boards that hasn't posted before but surprised there isn't much more lauding of tonight's result on here so said I'd join.

This was a decent Laois team who have played in some big matches with players like Munnelly, Kingston, Begley and Sheehan, and we schooled them in their own back yard.

In the second half, they didn't score for 28 minutes at one stage and it wasn't because we were defensive, they just couldn't get the ball.

Was surprised to see Rory Dunne go off but he and Martin Reilly and a few others have played a huge amount of football. This was Cavan's seventh game since he turn of he year! Their 5th in 3 weeks.

3 points from two away games is fantastic. We should maintain our place in Division 2 now which was the goal. Great to think that players like Mackey and Argue are to return as well.

KeepTheFaith · 08-02-2015 12:59am

Dunne came off because he was getting absolutely roasted. He's a good full back, the best we've had in years, but just couldn't cope with Kingston tonight. Killian Brady was outstanding, McVeety was quality, McEnroe came on and put in a colossal performance in the middle of the field for the last twenty minutes or so. McDermott had a great first half. Inside forward line is a worry but the support play was top quality, tackling, work rate, desire, intelligence, skill, all there in abundance. One swallow doesn't make a summer but it was as professional of a performance as I've seen from us in a long while. Laois were poor but we were much better than them and could have won by a lot more. We're not safe yet but we're looking like we belong in Division 2 so far and add Mackey, Argue, Tom Hayes and hopefully Keating to that team and we won't be easily beaten.

Jampip · 08-02-2015 1:23am

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Dunne came off because he was getting absolutely roasted. He's a good full back, the best we've had in years, but just couldn't cope with Kingston tonight. Killian Brady was outstanding, McVeety was quality, McEnroe came on and put in a colossal performance in the middle of the field for the last twenty minutes or so. McDermott had a great first half. Inside forward line is a worry but the support play was top quality, tackling, work rate, desire, intelligence, skill, all there in abundance. One swallow doesn't make a summer but it was as professional of a performance as I've seen from us in a long while. Laois were poor but we were much better than them and could have won by a lot more. We're not safe yet but we're looking like we belong in Division 2 so far and add Mackey, Argue, Tom Hayes and hopefully Keating to that team and we won't be easily beaten.

I'm surprised Kingston roasted him though when he's been able to cope with better players like Sean Cavanagh recently.

6 points would have had you safe last year. We've three already. I'd expect us to get a win vs Westmeath and would hope that we'll get something from the Down game.

The other games could go either way. At present, you'd have to hope we have a chance of winning those too.

The big thing tonight was having good players on the bench like Barry Reilly and McEnroe that made a difference when introduced.

KeepTheFaith · 08-02-2015 1:36am

Yeah I was surprised myself.. Kingston was on fire though, it happens.

Barry's introduction would have been better if we had a functioning full forward line. He can has a lovely passing range but Dunne couldn't get the better of his man and the ball that went into him was won easily by his marker. McEnroe was outstanding, I think that was his first game this year? Nothing got past him in the second half and he got a score or two as well.

Good to see that we can rack up a score without relying on Gearoid and Dunne. Neither had a game to remember tonight.

Thunderbirds · 08-02-2015 9:12am

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Yeah I was surprised myself.. Kingston was on fire though, it happens.

Barry's introduction would have been better if we had a functioning full forward line. He can has a lovely passing range but Dunne couldn't get the better of his man and the ball that went into him was won easily by his marker. McEnroe was outstanding, I think that was his first game this year? Nothing got past him in the second half and he got a score or two as well.

Good to see that we can rack up a score without relying on Gearoid and Dunne. Neither had a game to remember tonight.

Rory Dunne got a roasting last week too. Last years league final the same. So it's not that unusual. Martin Dunne gets roasted all the time. He's still living on the Armagh game two years ago. Great performance as well as win.

Jampip · 08-02-2015 9:50am

Thunderbirds wrote: »

Rory Dunne got a roasting last week too. Last years league final the same. So it's not that unusual. Martin Dunne gets roasted all the time. He's still living on the Armagh game two years ago. Great performance as well as win.

I wasn't at the game last week and hadn't heard that elsewhere. Re the League final last year, I was at it and didn't think he did. That said, we kicked they game away when it was there for the taking so the less said the better about it.

Either way, it was good to see the line make changes like that when needed and not be afraid to make a call. I can only think that is the input of one of the new coaches like McHale as I don't think we would have see it last year.

I agree re Dunne but who else is there? He's probably a starter by default. Hayes is with the U21s, other forwards like Tierney and Keating have opted out this year and Jack Brady has been poor.

If anything, I think Barry Reilly is an example that time off from the panel might help a few of these lads that struggle for form. Cut them loose for a while and let them go back to their club and get their confidence back.

Thunderbirds · 08-02-2015 10:15am

Jampip wrote: »

I wasn't at the game last week and hadn't heard that elsewhere. Re the League final last year, I was at it and didn't think he did. That said, we kicked they game away when it was there for the taking so the less said the better about it.

Either way, it was good to see the line make changes like that when needed and not be afraid to make a call. I can only think that is the input of one of the new coaches like McHale as I don't think we would have see it last year.

I agree re Dunne but who else is there? He's probably a starter by default. Hayes is with the U21s, other forwards like Tierney and Keating have opted out this year and Jack Brady has been poor.

If anything, I think Barry Reilly is an example that time off from the panel might help a few of these lads that struggle for form. Cut them loose for a while and let them go back to their club and get their confidence back.

I'm probably being a bit harsh on Rory Dunne. Last week he got a roasting in the first half but recovered well in second half. And I'd say Tom Hayes is the answer. I'd rather stay up in league than win another 21. Cian Mackey maybe also inside? He nearly back and doing full training.

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