Virgin Media subscriber numbers

JTMan · 10-05-2017 6:32am

The increased phone subscriptions are due to forced bundling of broadband and phone for new customers. The phone subscription number is misleading. People have subscribed to a broadband package and in many cases do not use the landline.

Interesting that TV subs have continued the ongoing downward trend.

Dave..M · 10-05-2017 8:45am

JTMan wrote: »

The increased phone subscriptions are due to forced bundling of broadband and phone for new customers. The phone subscription number is misleading. People have subscribed to a broadband package and in many cases do not use the landline.

Interesting that TV subs have continued the ongoing downward trend.

Also the phone stats may include recently upgraded areas that previously didn't support the phone service and now do so is artificially increased as existing customers change from legacy packages to ones that include phone by default.

colm_mcm · 11-05-2017 12:14am

JTMan wrote: »

The increased phone subscriptions are due to forced bundling of broadband and phone for new customers. The phone subscription number is misleading. People have subscribed to a broadband package and in many cases do not use the landline.

Interesting that TV subs have continued the ongoing downward trend.

There's 600 more phones added than broadband.

JTMan · 11-05-2017 6:22am

colm_mcm wrote: »

There's 600 more phones added than broadband.

Legacy (long time ago) broadband packages did not have a landline included. The 600 comes from people on legacy contacts upgrading to new packages which have forced landline bundle inclusion.

BlinkingLights · 14-05-2017 3:58pm

Virgin might be better off offering people a CI+ module that could go into the back of your average smart TV and maybe not going on and on endlessly about Horizon.

A lot of people find the hardware very poor and it seems like a lot of unnecessary investment if the TV and an app could do the same job.

At the end of the day, Virgin's main product is now broadband (without content) and a basic TV platform that is still used by a lot of people who don't necessarily want anything uber-fancy anyway.

If you'd a CI+ module, as is common with UPC and Ziggo (sister networks) on the continent, you could probably encourage a lot more people to take out Virgin TV + broadband as it's just a way more flexible solution.

JTMan · 08-08-2017 5:53pm

Liberty Global (Virgin Media) Q2 2017 numbers published yesterday (in brackets, quarter on quarter +/-)
http://www.libertyglobal.com/pdf/press-release/LG-Q2-2017-Press-Release-FINAL.pdf

Video Subscribers - 296,500 (-1,400)
--- *Analogue Cable - 27,500 (-900)
--- Digital Cable - 269,00 (-500)
Internet - 366,100 (+1,700)
Telephone - 354,900 (+1,000)

Total Subscribers - 1,017,500 (+1,300)
Premises - 452,100 (-400)

Mobile Subscribers - 40,500 (+12,600)

- TV subs continue a downward spiral as they have for several years now.
- Overall premises numbers flat.
- Huge mobile growth due to discounting.
- Landline growth due to forced (in most cases) bundling.

galtee boy · 09-08-2017 2:47pm

Why haven't Virgin gone down the IPTV route like eir and Vodafone and offered their TV service nationwide? Lots of areas outside the urban areas have good broadband and its improving all the time, albeit it slowly.

PAKNET · 09-08-2017 8:16pm

galtee boy wrote: »

Why haven't Virgin gone down the IPTV route like eir and Vodafone and offered their TV service nationwide? Lots of areas outside the urban areas have good broadband and its improving all the time, albeit it slowly.

Eir and Vodafone's TV service is a closed multicast IPTV system as opposed to something like SkyGo or RTPlayer.

You have to have Eir broadband to get Eir TV and you have to have Vodafone broadband to get Vodafone TV.

You cannot get Vodafone TV on Eir broadband, or vice versa.

Hence, there's no way Virgin could (reliably) offer a TV service where it wasn't over their own cable or broadband service.

It would also cost them a small fortune in bandwidth costs because they wouldn't be able to available of multicast like Eir and Vodafone can.

galtee boy · 09-08-2017 9:03pm

PAKNET wrote: »

Eir and Vodafone's TV service is a closed multicast IPTV system as opposed to something like SkyGo or RTPlayer.

You have to have Eir broadband to get Eir TV and you have to have Vodafone broadband to get Vodafone TV.

You cannot get Vodafone TV on Eir broadband, or vice versa.

Hence, there's no way Virgin could (reliably) offer a TV service where it wasn't over their own cable or broadband service.

It would also cost them a small fortune in bandwidth costs because they wouldn't be able to available of multicast like Eir and Vodafone can.

I don't get it, Vodafone don't have their own cable network, they use the cables/wires belonging to eir, why can't Virgin do the same?

scamalert · 09-08-2017 9:49pm

thats correct vodafone are leasing eir lines, but VM is using cable as provider thus no access to same loop.
Also VM is still long ways from from wide coverage since in many towns depending on estate you live theres a chance you wont get VM,specially in older ones past 15yrs.

10-08-2017 10:23am

galtee boy wrote: »

I don't get it, Vodafone don't have their own cable network, they use the cables/wires belonging to eir, why can't Virgin do the same?

While it's correct that Vodafone don't have their own cable network, they do have their own backend infrastructure. Note how you don't get Eir IP addresses on a Vodafone connection, it's not the same service. That's how they're able to make use of multicast to provide a TV service.

PAKNET · 10-08-2017 10:50am

galtee boy wrote: »

I don't get it, Vodafone don't have their own cable network, they use the cables/wires belonging to eir, why can't Virgin do the same?

As when Vodafone take over a line for VDSL, the line becomes dedicated solely for Vodafone traffic.

No other operator's traffic is allowed to/from your line as the local cabinet is configured to only pass through traffic from your chosen operator.

Which is the reason why when you plug an Eir modem into a line which has Vodafone fibre on it, the Eir modem will establish a sync but it won't pass any traffic.

Hence, if you are on Vodafone for broadband, Eir's multicast TV traffic won't be able to get to you - or vice versa.

Of course, there's nothing technically restricting that from being the case, Eir or Vodafone could well "whitelabel" their TV platform to third parties if they so wished.

But that is unlikely to happen, for the same reasons Virgin Media don't resell their broadband or TV platforms to anyone else.

galtee boy · 10-08-2017 2:44pm

Ok, thanks for the replies and info.

L1011 · 10-08-2017 3:06pm

galtee boy wrote: »

I don't get it, Vodafone don't have their own cable network, they use the cables/wires belonging to eir, why can't Virgin do the same?

Because it would dilute their offering hugely. Crap IPTV and crap VDSL vs mediocre DVBC and DOCSIS3 internet - the latter makes the former look like toys.

galtee boy · 10-08-2017 3:17pm

L1011 wrote: »

Because it would dilute their offering hugely. Crap IPTV and crap VDSL vs mediocre DVBC and DOCSIS3 internet - the latter makes the former look like toys.

I don't know where you are getting your information from, but I have Vodafone TV with about 15 months now and not once I have seen it buffer or fail, including the HD channels, of which there are now 35. You might be referring to the crap IPTV that is used for purposes that are not allowed to be discussed here. I assume eir TV is just as good, remember people won't put up with bad service, it's costing enough and there are other providers. I think we are well catered for in this country as regards choice of pay tv operators, considering our small population. We have Sky, Virgin, eir and Vodafone. Consumers should play one against the other and get the best deals possible. That's what I do, I left Sky after years and went with Vodafone and when my contract is up with Vodafone, I'll move again to whoever gives me the best deal, unless Vodafone make me an offer I can't refuse, which I doubt.

L1011 · 10-08-2017 6:50pm

galtee boy wrote: »

I don't know where you are getting your information from, but I have Vodafone TV with about 15 months now and not once I have seen it buffer or fail, including the HD channels, of which there are now 35. You might be referring to the crap IPTV that is used for purposes that are not allowed to be discussed here. I assume eir TV is just as good, remember people won't put up with bad service, it's costing enough and there are other providers. I think we are well catered for in this country as regards choice of pay tv operators, considering our small population. We have Sky, Virgin, eir and Vodafone. Consumers should play one against the other and get the best deals possible. That's what I do, I left Sky after years and went with Vodafone and when my contract is up with Vodafone, I'll move again to whoever gives me the best deal, unless Vodafone make me an offer I can't refuse, which I doubt.

Compare picture quality to an non IPTV system. Compare broadband speed, particularly after you get multiroom. Then consider that you're basically getting the max broadband speed you're going to get for a decade or more now, when DOCSIS3.1 is imminent.

VDSL+IPTV is an extremely poor substitute for cable. Virgin rightly do not want to associate themselves with it.

galtee boy · 10-08-2017 8:27pm

L1011 wrote: »

Compare picture quality to an non IPTV system. Compare broadband speed, particularly after you get multiroom. Then consider that you're basically getting the max broadband speed you're going to get for a decade or more now, when DOCSIS3.1 is imminent.

VDSL+IPTV is an extremely poor substitute for cable. Virgin rightly do not want to associate themselves with it.

I have nothing against Virgin, it's not in my area, but I have friends in Dublin, whom I visit and they have Virgin. I cannot see any difference in picture quality on their tv and mine, both are excellent. For sure, Virgin have a far greater channel line up, but that's nothing to do with picture quality. When I had Sky, the picture quality was excellent, I'm talking about HD obviously, SD is crap on all platforms. I don't agree with your assertion that Virgin is superior to everyone else. The HD I see on Vodafone is extremely sharp and I defy anyone to tell its otherwise, as is the HD I've seen on Virgin in Dublin. Before I got in Vodafone TV, my broadband speed was 90mb. Since the tv was installed, my speed test now gives me a reading of about 50mb. I have multiroom, Netflix and a daughter using iPad etc. No problems on any of them. I don't need or want 200/300 mb, the average family home doesn't need those speeds, though I'm sure others will disagree. I'll leave it at that, it started with an enquiry as to why Virgin don't go down the IPTV route outside of the large urban areas and I've been given the technical reasons as to why it can't be done.

PAKNET · 10-08-2017 8:40pm

L1011 wrote: »

Compare picture quality to an non IPTV system. Compare broadband speed, particularly after you get multiroom. Then consider that you're basically getting the max broadband speed you're going to get for a decade or more now, when DOCSIS3.1 is imminent.

VDSL+IPTV is an extremely poor substitute for cable. Virgin rightly do not want to associate themselves with it.

Cable networks themselves are transitioning to hybrid IPTV methods of delivery as well.

It makes no sense to broadcast every channel they want to make available 24/7 when many non-prime channels might attract a few hundred viewers at most.

Therefore the popular channels are broadcast, the rest are multicast or unicast as needed.

Obviously this won't have a direct impact on your BB speed like VDSL but FTTH will make the speed impact relatively irrelevant.

On the contrary, VDSL is not directly shared out amongst your neighbours. Virgin also have one of the worst routing and peering setups in this country, significant amounts of traffic have to go halfway across Europe and back again even if the server you are htting is down the road! There have been repeated and extended issues with popular services like Youtube and Netflix as a result.

Anyway, that is a whole other discussion...

tricky2beat · 11-08-2017 8:29am

L1011 wrote: »

Compare picture quality to an non IPTV system. Compare broadband speed, particularly after you get multiroom. Then consider that you're basically getting the max broadband speed you're going to get for a decade or more now, when DOCSIS3.1 is imminent.

VDSL+IPTV is an extremely poor substitute for cable. Virgin rightly do not want to associate themselves with it.

I don't think your assumptions are correct. The picture quality on Vodafone's IPTV is superior to Virgin. It's certainly a much better TV service. I'm now in a new house in Dublin and have experienced both.

The Cush · 03-11-2017 2:01am

Liberty Global (Virgin Media) Q3 2017 numbers published (in brackets, quarter on quarter +/-)
http://www.libertyglobal.com/pdf/press-release/LG-Q3-2017-Press-Release-FINAL.pdf

Video Subscribers - 297,300 (+800)
--- Analogue Cable - 26,400 (-1,100)
--- Digital Cable - 270,900 (+1,900)
Internet - 371,400 (+5,300)
Telephone - 358,200 (+3,300)

Total Subscribers - 1,026,900 (+9,400)
Premises - 455,600 (+3,500)

Mobile Subscribers - 44,400 (+3,900)

kre3 · 09-11-2017 12:23am

Looks like the €50 offer paid off. Wonder will the latest price increase have an impact on numbers?

dubrov · 09-11-2017 8:09am

I'd expect mobile numbers to fall off a cliff as a lot of people come to the end of their 6 month discounted period

The Cush · 16-02-2018 11:32pm

Liberty Global (Virgin Media) Q4 2017 numbers published (in brackets, quarter on quarter +/-)
www.libertyglobal.com/pdf/press-release/Liberty-Global-Q4-2017-Press-Release.pdf

Video Subscribers - 292,700 (-4,600)
--- Analogue Cable - 24,600 (-1,800)
--- Digital Cable - 268,100 (-2,800)
Internet - 372,200 (+800)
Telephone - 356,300 (-1,900)

Total Subscribers - 1,021,200 (-5,700)
Premises - 454,300 (-1,300)

Mobile Subscribers - 49,900 (+5,500)

Virgin Media is expecting to roll-out its 4-K ready set-top media platform in the Republic later this year as it looks to claw back broadcast subscribers from rivals such as Sky.

Eos, which is already available to Virgin Media customers in Britain under the brand name V6 is based on the TiVo platform and comes with a 1 Tbyte hard drive as standard to store up to 500 hours of standard definition or 100 hours of HD TV. It allows users to record six shows concurrently, comes with built-in apps and promises a “smarter and faster” experience overall.

Mr Farrell said Virgin Media intends to start rolling out the new platform in the Republic later this year. The company has no immediate plans to introduce 5G mobile services locally, partly as a result of it being constrained by its current MVNO agreement.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/virgin-media-readies-new-set-top-box-as-new-tv-customers-decline-1.3393313

Speaking with Siliconrepublic.com, Farrell explained that, in conjunction with broadband deployments, the company is working on the next generation of TV services.

A key element will be the arrival of new 4K set-top boxes later this year. Farrell said that the new boxes will be based on TiVo V6 technology but augmented with a new user interface.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/virgin-media-4k-broadband-q4

castle2012 · 17-02-2018 12:09am

The figures are terrible. Look at the start of this tread. 434k TV customer s. That's 140k TV customer s lost since 2013. Sky has been growing. Virgin is falling off a cliff with TV customer s.

beauf · 17-02-2018 1:42am

Maybe they'll actually get their finger out with the new box then...

scamalert · 20-02-2018 2:20pm

castle2012 wrote: »

The figures are terrible. Look at the start of this tread. 434k TV customer s. That's 140k TV customer s lost since 2013. Sky has been growing. Virgin is falling off a cliff with TV customer s.

to be fair that number is quite low if its over 5 years time.
in the future we will see more drops over many providers,since cost for tv packages and ones you can get online-granted not all channels, but with services as amazon,netflix etc there is very little need for live tv and ones mentioned usually cost fraction,as tvs become more tech smart integrated to support streaming from different sources apps.

The Cush · 09-05-2018 2:20am

Liberty Global (Virgin Media) Q1 2018 numbers published (in brackets, quarter on quarter +/-)
http://www.libertyglobal.com/pdf/press-release/LG-Q1-2018-Press-Release.pdf

Video Subscribers - 273,800 (-18,900)
--- Analogue Cable - 13,700 (-10,900)
--- Digital Cable - 260,100 (-8,000)
Internet - 372,600 (+400)
Telephone - 355,300 (-1,000)

Total Subscribers - 1,001,700 (-19,500)
Premises - 438,200 (-16,100)

Mobile Subscribers - 59,900 (+10,000)

Large drop in analogue and digital TV subscribers this quarter, no reason given in the press release for the reduction in numbers.

The analogue reduction is probably related to the analogue cable switch off and is similar to what they did with the MMDS subscriber numbers back in their Q1 2016 results, where they excluded 22,200 MMDS subscribers numbers in advance of MMDS switch off in Q2 2016 (April). They still had about 10,000 MMDS subscribers at switch off.

JTMan · 09-05-2018 6:24am

The analogue TV numbers almost look like a typo. It is hard to believe that the numbers almost halfed in a quarter even with the gradual switch off.

The digital TV numbers are a disaster again. TV subs are continuing to define rapidly. In this streaming day and age, less and less people care about linear TV.

The internet numbers are a disaster as well. Virgin are growing their footprint and should be growing broadband numbers at the same time. I would guess that competitive price pressure is playing a part.

The telephone numbers are 'rigged' via forced bundles including telephone that is often not used. Virgin should report active telephone customers.

The mobile numbers are impressive. Strong growth.

icdg · 09-05-2018 7:13am

The disappearance of nearly all club rugby union from channels carried on the platform will likely have an effect in the coming months, but I don’t think we’ll see that till the autumn. May be one to watch though.

KildareP · 09-05-2018 7:30am

JTMan wrote: »

The analogue TV numbers almost look like a typo. It is hard to believe that the numbers almost halfed in a quarter even with the gradual switch off.

The digital TV numbers are a disaster again. TV subs are continuing to define rapidly. In this streaming day and age, less and less people care about linear TV.

The internet numbers are a disaster as well. Virgin are growing their footprint and should be growing broadband numbers at the same time. I would guess that competitive price pressure is playing a part.

The telephone numbers are 'rigged' via forced bundles including telephone that is often not used. Virgin should report active telephone customers.

The mobile numbers are impressive. Strong growth.

I would suspect the digital TV numbers are more a reflection on the Virgin Media product than on Pay-TV as a whole. The Horizon platform is very unpleasant to use and full of "quirks".

If you look at Sky's subscriber numbers they are at a record high, so it would suggest people have been deflecting to Sky, rather than deflecting away from Pay-TV as a whole - although that probably has a part to play.

On the broadband, again, I'd put that down to usability issues.
One of the biggest issues we come across in an IT support environment is related to VPN's and VoIP not working and 9 times out of 10 that user is on a Virgin Media connection with Dual Stack Lite IPv6.
People just expect their internet connection to work, so when they're trying to work from home they do not want to spend vast amounts of their working time being bounced between their IT support and Virgin Media support trying to convey a message that, generally, neither side understands the meaning of!

Virgin's competitors can also now offer "good enough" speeds for the majority at a similar price point to them so they no longer have the distinct speed advantage they did in previous years. 50Mb VDSL vs 360Mb DOCSIS is near unnoticeable to most over an average WiFi network compared to 3Mb DSL vs 360Mb DOCSIS.

Virgin Media subscriber numbers

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