Eircom eFibre VDSL/FTTC rollout – plans to reach 1.6m premises by mid 2016

Sponge Bob · 23-02-2012 3:01pm

Some people already have crap UPC speeds from contention and just wait till 4G LTE phones come on the market next year and cause interference within the spectrum bandplan for 800mhz-1ghz UPC Coax

iMuse · 23-02-2012 10:15pm

This box is half a mile from my house and Ive seen eircom working at it before. Is it a Cabinet?

Solair · 23-02-2012 11:00pm

Yeah, that's a cabinet, but it could actually be for voice only, or it could be a simple cable junction box.

jimmad · 24-02-2012 12:21am

That box is less than 50 metres from my house, it used to be a bigger green one, there is another green box around 300 metres closer to the town.
More than likely they'll put the dslam there as powers already at hand.

Solair · 24-02-2012 2:56am

That's also most likely a junction box. The ESB box near by is probably for public lighting.

They can site remote-concentrators in boxes like that, but they're usually just for voice! In some cases, they mange to rollout a local voice exchange facility in a box like that and provide no DSL at all! lol

lucernarian · 24-02-2012 3:11am

Solair wrote: »

That's also most likely a junction box. The ESB box near by is probably for public lighting.

They can site remote-concentrators in boxes like that, but they're usually just for voice! In some cases, they mange to rollout a local voice exchange facility in a box like that and provide no DSL at all! lol

Eircom's incompetence in this regard in the mid 2000s was remarkable. Some of these mistakes, like The Naul's exchange, have only been corrected over the last few months.

10belowzero · 24-02-2012 10:11am

The case shown in jimmad's photo is a remote telemetry unit owned by the local council and is used for monitoring / controlling main's water pressure for an area's water provision.
The case in iMuse's photo's are the new c.c.p's now being used by eircom on new installation's and for maintenance repacment's of older cabnet's, they carry voice , b/band ,carrier's ,cable + pressure monitoring equip , data circuit's etc.
I have to say the company seem to be going all out to get the fibre build team's up and running asap , got about 12 text's yesterday, on top of email's ,as well as application's being delivered personally as well as being posted to our home's and closing date for application's is next wensday.
At this pace , these team's will be up and running and in the field by early may ,still no word of the actual exch area's to be done.

Freddie59 · 24-02-2012 2:02pm

arctan wrote: »

different technologies along it ... the cables are the medium

The coax is far superior to twisted pair. Apparently.

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=683070&seqNum=2

arctan · 24-02-2012 6:02pm

no apparents about it, co-ax can handle much more bandwidth with less attenuation, compared to twisted pair, as I pointed out earlier

Solair · 24-02-2012 7:23pm

Coaxial cable networks have always been used for high-bandwidth applications. Cable television, for example, is pretty huge bandwidth.

Twisted pair cables as used in telephone systems were originally specified only to carry narrow-band voice and data signals, and primarily just voice.

If eircom are bringing fibre right into the house, then they can provide really fast services that are completely competitive with UPC's technology.

However, if they're just going fibre-to-cabinet and then using VDSL technology over regular phone wiring to your house, they will only be able to just about compete with current generation cable technology.

EuroDOCSIS 3.0 used over a hybrid coax-fibre network like UPC's can potentially go a LOT faster than 100mbit/s

EuroDOCSIS 3.0 can be configured to handle over 400mbit/s down and well over 120mbit/s up, and that's without installing new cabling into houses.

UPC field-tested 1.3Gbit/s over a conventional cable network in Vienna recently!

http://dark-fiber.tmcnet.com/topics/dark-fiber/articles/217633-upc-austria-achieves-13-gigabits-speed-with-help.htm

So, if eircom doesn't go to really full-scale fibre to the home, they just face being wiped out by UPC all over again.

Also, UPC is a BIG player in this technology. It's not buying stuff off-the-shelf. It's one of the largest cable operators in the world and it has serious technology at it's disposal and actually drives R&D in the area.

eircom on the other hand is one of Europe's smallest national telcos and basically has to buy off-the-shelf.

So, without really proper investment, eircom's just going to face always being inferior to cable alternatives.

Freddie59 · 25-02-2012 1:44pm

Solair wrote: »

UPC field-tested 1.3Gbit/s over a conventional cable network in Vienna recently!

http://dark-fiber.tmcnet.com/topics/dark-fiber/articles/217633-upc-austria-achieves-13-gigabits-speed-with-help.htm

:eek::eek:

iMuse · 25-02-2012 4:49pm

Letterkenny is set to benefit from a 5 million euro investment in a fibre rollout programme that will help enhance broadband technology in the town.

This week, Eircom officials confirmed progress in the investment with thirteen areas throughout the town to be included in Phase 1 of the national initiative.

“We are very committed to the Letterkenny area and to the county,” Eircom’s Head of Communications, Paul Bradley, told members of the local Town Council at their meeting on Monday night.

By the end of the summer, Eircom hope to have delivered broadband with speeds of up to 40-50Mbps to customers.

A total investment of 100 million euro in the country includes an investment of between 4 to 5 million euro to be spent in Letterkenny.

Areas earmarked in the programme include Mountain Top, Glencar Scotch, Manor View, Town Centre, Ballymacool, Rahan, Lismonaghan, Lurgybrack, Glebe, Woodland, Meadowhill, Lisnenan, and Knocknamona.

Eircom is in discussions with industry to secure agreement on the rollout programme.

The company employs a total of 128 in Donegal with seventy-six of those based in Letterkenny, members were told.

Source

They seem to be trying to cover most areas of the town anyway which is good news

Sponge Bob · 26-02-2012 1:07am

Course the problen with this plan is that they are not prepared to say what they will do in the Exchange AREA. (Give it around 15-20 secs to load).

In geographic terms OVER Half the Letterkenny Exchange AREA will NOT be upgraded to VDSL...but will they guarantee those non VDSL areas an adequate ADSL2+ service instead....eg by moving ADSL2+ service launch to the edge of teh town and thereby much nearer the rural hinterland. ???

iMuse wrote: »

They seem to be trying to cover most areas of the town anyway which is good news

arctan · 26-02-2012 3:43pm

geographical sense shouldn't really be a bother, once it hits the main population areas ....

38 CCP's in Letterkenny, if they were all done, I can see very few people being left out of having VDSL ... again cable length and condition would be a big problem

D'Peoples Voice · 26-02-2012 8:34pm

arctan wrote: »

UPC still have high contention on the lines, it's fine for the moment but in a few years without more speed upgrades you'll see drop offs and crap speeds

this problem might not be as bad as feared.
Can we assume that while people might go mad on torrents
for the first few months after broadband installation,
their behaviour reverts back to just using broadband for social media/email/VOIP purposes, in the main.
In which case, I would expect the vast majority of people to be happy with relatively low speeds - which should keep the contention low, and the ongoing provision cost low from UPC's point of view.

At the expense of providing broadband of 20Mbs in ALL major towns and cities, are Eircom mad to be looking at concentrating their investment into providing high speeds 100 Mbs plus, that for most houses, will go under-utilised.
I know from looking at my neighbours, I'd say fewer than maybe 20% would have a genuine long term need for broadband over 20Mbs. With low take up, others might be faced with having to subsidise this project through higher prices across the board. I just hope that Eircom have analysed the demographics of these areas, and identified genuine pent-up demand. :rolleyes:

arctan · 27-02-2012 12:27am

yeah but from an actual data point of view, that 100Mb eircom link will be fairly utilised when triple play is rolled out ...

the likes of netflix and remote files sites are the way foreward which will both push up both upsteam and downstream utilisation ..

your view is nearly the same as that of net providers in the early 2000's thinking a max of 56kbps is gonna be loads for the next few years

lucernarian · 27-02-2012 1:09am

arctan wrote: »

geographical sense shouldn't really be a bother, once it hits the main population areas ....

38 CCP's in Letterkenny, if they were all done, I can see very few people being left out of having VDSL ... again cable length and condition would be a big problem

What happens when you have a place like Mountain Top, 3 km outside Letterkenny yet might not have a cabinet serving it until you reach the edge of the town? (This is a hypothetical situation and Mountain Top probably has a cabinet) The N56 has ducting running the whole way along but will eircom place VDSL equipment where the people actually live or will they take the lazy option and enable a cabinet which only serves people over 1km away?? This is a regular scenario in regional towns.

In theory, any location where ducting exists with fibre and power in place would be a good spot for these VDSL cabinets. All that would be needed is about a hundred or so lines of a mile length or less to be connected to the cabinet. There's no point just enabling all 38 cabinets if they're not close to new housing estates on the outskirts of towns etc.

Also, I don't think 56k was ever regarded as an adequate solution from like the mid 90s onwards. Heck, the simpsons took the mickey out of dialup. There were killer apps that meant people clearly benefited from Mbps speeds. Past 20 mbps download speeds, upload speeds become relatively more important. Cloud applications rely on this and I'm not sure something like 100Mb/8Mb would be as welcome as 20Mb/20Mb. VDSL is not so useful at providing that as GPON fibre is.

bk · 27-02-2012 1:02pm

Yup, I believe upload speed is becoming increasingly important.

Personally I'm happy enough on 10mb/s download, but would love more then 600kb/s upload. It is painful how long it takes to upload pictures and video.

What is the upload speed on Eircoms new VDSL2+ service?

Solair · 27-02-2012 4:44pm

Considering that not much more than a decade ago, eircom seemed to think there was no demand for broadband, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting around for them. If they'd had their way we'd all be on time, and dial up and ISDN in 2012!

Eircom doesn't really have a tracking record of being visionary or market leading. It's usually been the technology laggard.

bealtine · 27-02-2012 4:51pm

Solair wrote: »

Considering that not much more than a decade ago, eircom seemed to think there was no demand for broadband, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting around for them. If they'd had their way we'd all be on time, and dial up and ISDN in 2012!

Eircom doesn't really have a tracking record of being visionary or market leading. It's usually been the technology laggard.

In this limited case competition has stung eircom into action,UPC have been eating their lunch (and dinner too) with the UPC "fibre" rollout so eircom have to enable areas outside the main urban areas, Letterkenny and Wexford, areas not targeted by UPC.

Of course eircom will massively overcharge for the fibre products and then proclaim there to be no takeup...

AlmightyCushion · 27-02-2012 7:14pm

bealtine wrote: »

Solair wrote: »

Considering that not much more than a decade ago, eircom seemed to think there was no demand for broadband, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting around for them. If they'd had their way we'd all be on time, and dial up and ISDN in 2012!

Eircom doesn't really have a tracking record of being visionary or market leading. It's usually been the technology laggard.

In this limited case competition has stung eircom into action,UPC have been eating their lunch (and dinner too) with the UPC "fibre" rollout so eircom have to enable areas outside the main urban areas, Letterkenny and Wexford, areas not targeted by UPC.

Of course eircom will massively overcharge for the fibre products and then proclaim there to be no takeup...

The prices quoted so far weren't bad value for money if I remember right.

Gonzo · 27-02-2012 8:24pm

I'd love to see this technology come to Dunshaughlin in County Meath, i am 2km from the exchange and struggling to hit 7meg, Eircom wont upgrade me to ADSL2+ even tho im on an ngn exchange. nothing will improve my speed till fttc comes here and even if it does im not guaranteed that a box would be placed nearer my home giving me higher speeds. I'd be happy for 10meg even. I reckon it will be at least 3 years before Eircom roll out this service here.

bealtine · 27-02-2012 8:50pm

Gonzo wrote: »

I'd love to see this technology come to Dunshaughlin in County Meath, i am 2km from the exchange and struggling to hit 7meg, Eircom wont upgrade me to ADSL2+ even tho im on an ngn exchange. nothing will improve my speed till fttc comes here and even if it does im not guaranteed that a box would be placed nearer my home giving me higher speeds. I'd be happy for 10meg even. I reckon it will be at least 3 years before Eircom roll out this service here.

You may love it to happen but don't hold your breath:)It will happen eventually.

At 7mbs you are better than the majority of people on DSL and mobile.

arctan · 27-02-2012 10:40pm

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

What happens when you have a place like Mountain Top, 3 km outside Letterkenny yet might not have a cabinet serving it until you reach the edge of the town? (This is a hypothetical situation and Mountain Top probably has a cabinet) The N56 has ducting running the whole way along but will eircom place VDSL equipment where the people actually live or will they take the lazy option and enable a cabinet which only serves people over 1km away?? This is a regular scenario in regional towns.

In theory, any location where ducting exists with fibre and power in place would be a good spot for these VDSL cabinets. All that would be needed is about a hundred or so lines of a mile length or less to be connected to the cabinet. There's no point just enabling all 38 cabinets if they're not close to new housing estates on the outskirts of towns etc.

Also, I don't think 56k was ever regarded as an adequate solution from like the mid 90s onwards. Heck, the simpsons took the mickey out of dialup. There were killer apps that meant people clearly benefited from Mbps speeds. Past 20 mbps download speeds, upload speeds become relatively more important. Cloud applications rely on this and I'm not sure something like 100Mb/8Mb would be as welcome as 20Mb/20Mb. VDSL is not so useful at providing that as GPON fibre is.

my point was, if the 38 CCP's were changed over there would be very few existing customers left out of the system upgrade ... obviously Eircom will enable or install new cabs at sites with the most possible connections, hence revenue

as for 56K, solution wasnt the idea, it was what an awful lot of people could only get/afford in Ireland 10 years ago, and there was no real push for broadband until 2003/2004

Contrarian · 28-02-2012 1:20pm

eircom Standalone Fibre pricing p/m inc VAT (available at Dundrum, Priory Park, Sandyford and Wexford)

25Mb/8Mb - €40 (FTTC/FTTH)
50Mb/20Mb - €50 (FTTC/FTTH)
150Mb/30Mb - €60 (FTTH)

also fibre/VoIP bundles starting at € 40

Cantona's Collars · 28-02-2012 1:48pm

Contrarian wrote: »

eircom Standalone Fibre pricing p/m inc VAT (available at Dundrum, Priory Park, Sandyford and Wexford)

25Mb/8Mb - €40 (FTTC/FTTH)
50Mb/20Mb - €50 (FTTC/FTTH)
150Mb/30Mb - €60 (FTTH)

also fibre/VoIP bundles starting at € 40

For anyone with a bit of cop on those aren't bad prices considering what the alternative is(ouside UPC areas).The problem in Wexford is the sheer amount of people who go with the alternative 'cos it's cheaper even if it's rubbish.I can't get my head around that mentality.

I recently upgraded my service,nothing wrong with my old one but for €2.50 extra a month I now get 8mb instead of 2.The missus couldn't get her head around this and her usual comment was "ah sure wasn't the old one grand"

stevenf17 · 28-02-2012 1:59pm

Found this presentation on NGN site
http://www.nextgenerationnetwork.ie/downloads/rollout_programme_overview/nga_rollout_presentation.ppt

Slide 13 shows where there thinking of rolling out FTTC to!

D'Peoples Voice · 28-02-2012 2:02pm

Contrarian wrote: »

eircom Standalone Fibre pricing p/m inc VAT (available at Dundrum, Priory Park, Sandyford and Wexford)

25Mb/8Mb - €40 (FTTC/FTTH)
50Mb/20Mb - €50 (FTTC/FTTH)
150Mb/30Mb - €60 (FTTH)

also fibre/VoIP bundles starting at € 40

How many people are willing to pay €50 - €60 per month for broadband?
this might give you a clue (
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/rate-of-health-insurance-dropout-doubles-in-2011-541484.html)

Even €40 is high for some people,
when a large minority of people still think that mobile broadband is sufficient for emails and social media, and costs around €15 per month.
Still I expect a massive take-up of the 25Mb/8Mb, and a small take-up of the more expensive packages.

bealtine · 28-02-2012 2:22pm

Contrarian wrote: »

eircom Standalone Fibre pricing p/m inc VAT (available at Dundrum, Priory Park, Sandyford and Wexford)

25Mb/8Mb - €40 (FTTC/FTTH)
50Mb/20Mb - €50 (FTTC/FTTH)
150Mb/30Mb - €60 (FTTH)

also fibre/VoIP bundles starting at € 40

I still think €40 is a bit too expensive for a basic offering in comparison to what UPC are offering similar 20Mbs service for. But it's not as bad as I expected:)

AlmightyCushion · 28-02-2012 2:28pm

zerks wrote: »

For anyone with a bit of cop on those aren't bad prices considering what the alternative is(ouside UPC areas).The problem in Wexford is the sheer amount of people who go with the alternative 'cos it's cheaper even if it's rubbish.I can't get my head around that mentality.

I recently upgraded my service,nothing wrong with my old one but for €2.50 extra a month I now get 8mb instead of 2.The missus couldn't get her head around this and her usual comment was "ah sure wasn't the old one grand"

It's not just wexford, it's everywhere. A lot of people just see the price tag and go with the cheapest one regardless of if it's awful or not. If you told them about these packages they'd laugh at them and call them a rip off. 10 minutes later they'd be complaining about their mobile broadband being slow.

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

How many people are willing to pay €50 - €60 per month for broadband?
this might give you a clue (
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/rate-of-health-insurance-dropout-doubles-in-2011-541484.html)

Even €40 is high for some people,
when a large minority of people still think that mobile broadband is sufficient for emails and social media, and costs around €15 per month.
Still I expect a massive take-up of the 25Mb/8Mb, and a small take-up of the more expensive packages.

The packages aren't as cheap as mobile broadband but they are still decent value for money, better value for money than mobile broadband. I'd gladly pay more for a good connection and as more people start using online services like netflix, xbox live etc. they'll appreciate a fast stable connection and will happily chuck their 3G dongle in the bin once they see the difference between the two.

Eircom eFibre VDSL/FTTC rollout – plans to reach 1.6m premises by mid 2016

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