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GSM Repeater

Comments

  • #2
    AlanD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭AlanD


    Good idea alright. I have a section of my house that has a very poor signal from all networks. My house in general has a poor O2 signal.

    My concern would be about the introduction of such close proximity mobile phone waves in to your house. People object to the large masts over health concerns, so would this be any different? Same frequency just less power. But it's the frequency of the waves that can cause the harm.

    But then, mobile phone frequencies are everywhere anyway so maybe it's no extra harm.


  • #3
    Pyro Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Pyro Boy


    Think this is illegal in Ireland remember reading this post :
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055416130&page=3


  • #4
    aFlabbyPanda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭aFlabbyPanda


    yeah I saw a few posts about the legallity of it and to be honest I don't quite understand the arguement saying these are illegal.

    By the same token any TV booster would be also. Since you arent transmitting over the original networks frequency (like a pirate radio would) you are simply relaying it internally.

    So how do hotels etc get around it? I know plenty who have installed expensive GSM repeaters. Do you honestly think every hotel was lucky enough to get perfect coverage indoors?

    Also since the signal is poor in the whole estate (not just my house) I can't see anyone being able to complain about suddenly getting poor service.

    Anyway I bought the ebay one so we'll see how it works out.


  • #5
    cianclarke
    Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭cianclarke


    Be sure to let us know! Am curious myself..


  • #6
    rebel.ranter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭rebel.ranter


    BrianjG wrote: »
    yeah I saw a few posts about the legallity of it and to be honest I don't quite understand the arguement saying these are illegal.

    By the same token any TV booster would be also. Since you arent transmitting over the original networks frequency (like a pirate radio would) you are simply relaying it internally.

    So how do hotels etc get around it? I know plenty who have installed expensive GSM repeaters. Do you honestly think every hotel was lucky enough to get perfect coverage indoors?

    Also since the signal is poor in the whole estate (not just my house) I can't see anyone being able to complain about suddenly getting poor service.

    Anyway I bought the ebay one so we'll see how it works out.

    Hi, the legality issue relates to the fact that mobile operators pay license fees to operate exclusively in the frequency band that is licensed to them.

    By installing a unit like this you a amplifying the signal coming from the mast so you could be causing interference if it is not planned properly. Also if the unit is faulty it can also cause even more destructive interference.
    BrianjG wrote: »
    Also since the signal is poor in the whole estate (not just my house) I can't see anyone being able to complain about suddenly getting poor service.

    What people often forget is that you also amplifying a signal back to the base station on the up-link channel. This is a worry for operators. I have seen a repeater with a faulty up-link amp that caused the dropped calls on a cell to increase to ~15% of all the calls on that cell. It affects all calls on the cell not just those in the vicinity of the repeater. Think about the number of calls made, up to 25,000 per cell per day is not a wild number, the fault above in a typical cell could add over 3,500 extra dropped calls, then you'll see complaints come in!!!

    Even a healthy repeater will cause the noise floor rise in the cell, which will mean that the minimum receive level a mobile will need is greater. This has to be managed, the effective cell size would be reduced.
    BrianjG wrote: »
    So how do hotels etc get around it? I know plenty who have installed expensive GSM repeaters. Do you honestly think every hotel was lucky enough to get perfect coverage indoors?

    These solutions in hotels are normally installed by the network operators themselves. or increasingly by 3rd parties under the instruction of multiple operators.
    BrianjG wrote: »
    Anyway I bought the ebay one so we'll see how it works out.

    I hope you practice your innocent face for WHEN the unit goes faulty & ComReg come calling :D.


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  • #7
    aFlabbyPanda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭aFlabbyPanda


    everyone keeps saying these are illegal but I have yet to see any evidance of this that all I'm saying.


  • #8
    rebel.ranter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭rebel.ranter


    Hi Brian, it is illegal to broadcast in licensed spectrum, i.e. licensed to someone else. There are free to use blocks of spectrum like the ones used by video senders, remote control cars, car remote locking systems etc. once they are low power devices. The GSM & UMTS spectrums are licesnsed in blocks to operators. Only the license holders can broadcast in this spectrum.

    By installing this repeater you are broadcasting, hence breaking the law.

    See here for more info:

    http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/licensing.541.html
    In managing the radio spectrum, ComReg has set down specific rules and regulations for the possession and use of many forms of radio equipment. These regulations specify the licensing regime or exempt the radio equipment from licensing.

    Unlicensed or non-compliant possession or use of radio equipment is illegal rendering offenders liable for prosecution. ComReg’s Spectrum Compliance Team
    Radio Spectrum
    Compliance / Interference
    Overview

    The Spectrum Compliance Section is the subdivision within ComReg that is responsible for ensuring that all radio equipment is operated in accordance with current legislation and takes appropriate action where breaches are uncovered.

    Low powered radio devices may be exempted from requiring a licence (e.g. car fobs, Bluetooth devices etc.) but in general operators of radio equipment must have a valid licence before using the equipment. Additionally, all operators of equipment must adhere to the conditions of the licence issued by ComReg in terms of power output, frequency output and geographical location of the equipment.

    The Spectrum Compliance Section offers protection to the radio services of licensed operators by tracing and eliminating unwanted interference.

    Contact the Spectrum Compliance Team who will be happy to offer advice at compliance@comreg.ie

    Just to note that operators generally do their own tracing, they then hand over the info to ComReg who deal with the eliminating.


    WIRELESS TELEGRAPHY ACT, 1926 (the law that covers this issue):

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1926/en/act/pub/0045/index.html


  • #9
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    You need a licence for an ACTIVE GSM or 3G repeater.

    A passive one may be used legally.

    A sightly grey area would be deep underground carpark or similar.

    Hotels are more likely to have a GSM/3G jammer so you have to use their phones. Those also are illegal.


  • #10
    rebel.ranter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭rebel.ranter


    watty wrote: »
    A passive one may be used legally.

    A sightly grey area would be deep underground carpark or similar.

    Just to clarify, any repeaters being discussed in this thread are considered active. A passive repeater is essentially two antennas cabled together without any active amplification. Mentioning this merely adds to the confusion here.

    There is NO grey area concerning deep underground car parks or similar. It is still illegal & can still cause problems as described in one of my previous posts.
    (Remember using a repeater means you are "repeating" from a base station on the network, also you are transmitting back to the base station for the uplink, this is the worrying bit from an operator point of view)


  • #11
    towel401
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭towel401


    watty wrote: »
    You need a licence for an ACTIVE GSM or 3G repeater.

    A passive one may be used legally.

    A sightly grey area would be deep underground carpark or similar.

    Hotels are more likely to have a GSM/3G jammer so you have to use their phones. Those also are illegal.

    you know of any hotels in ireland using them?


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  • #12
    aFlabbyPanda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭aFlabbyPanda


    just an update for anyone who was interested, I got the repeater during the week plugged it in and it did feck all.

    I'm going to mess with the location and antenna over the next few days to see if it makes any difference.

    anyone got any details on passive repeaters?


  • #13
    Doodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Doodoo


    BrianjG wrote: »
    just an update for anyone who was interested, I got the repeater during the week plugged it in and it did feck all.

    I'm going to mess with the location and antenna over the next few days to see if it makes any difference.

    anyone got any details on passive repeaters?
    Do you have any luck getting this going?


  • #14
    mk6705
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭mk6705


    BrianjG wrote: »
    yeah I saw a few posts about the legallity of it and to be honest I don't quite understand the arguement saying these are illegal.

    By the same token any TV booster would be also. Since you arent transmitting over the original networks frequency (like a pirate radio would) you are simply relaying it internally.

    So how do hotels etc get around it? I know plenty who have installed expensive GSM repeaters. Do you honestly think every hotel was lucky enough to get perfect coverage indoors?

    Also since the signal is poor in the whole estate (not just my house) I can't see anyone being able to complain about suddenly getting poor service.

    Anyway I bought the ebay one so we'll see how it works out.

    Right. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
    They are illegal. Comparing it to a TV booster makes no sence. A TV booster takes a signal from an aerial, amplifies it, then passes it through a cable to a TV, modulating it on the cable to the TV or whatever else you want to connect it to. A GSM repeater takes a signal from a base station and rebroadcasts it, modulating it on an aerial and out into the air. It can easily cause interference because it is putting out another signal in the same band, which could easily clash with any base station in the area.
    Since you arent transmitting over the original networks frequency (like a pirate radio would)

    Pirate radio does not by it's nature broadcast over a used frequency. Alot of this is propaganda by OFCOM in the UK, where in London this is a problem (mainly due to their own unwillingness to license services). Any pirate radio station you hear is probably on a clear frequency, they would have no reason to broadcast over a station. In fact if they did they'd be causing trouble for themselves by the fact that licensed station are nearly always much more powerful than pirates. Some pirates may intentionally broadcast over a stations frequency but this is very rare and the people who do it are quite insensible.

    However to recommend a solution to you, I'd say either switch networks, get a better phone or get some form of a booster for the phone.

    :).


  • #15
    aFlabbyPanda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭aFlabbyPanda


    no, its never worked. I had o2 out to my office today & my home doing a site servey with a view to installing a repeater as the coverage is terrible in both locations.

    I'll know more in the next week or so.


  • #16
    gartcork
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭gartcork


    BrianjG wrote: »
    no, its never worked. I had o2 out to my office today & my home doing a site servey with a view to installing a repeater as the coverage is terrible in both locations.

    I'll know more in the next week or so.

    Hi Brian...Have you any update on this as the coverage at my home is almost non-existent. Thanks...


  • #17
    Dankoozy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭Dankoozy


    gartcork wrote: »
    Hi Brian...Have you any update on this as the coverage at my home is almost non-existent. Thanks...

    you can legally buy and install a repeater for the thuraya satellite phone network. 39c a minute calls though


  • #18
    byrnefm
    Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭byrnefm


    I know this is a bit of an old thread but with Vodafone's SureSignal out soon, the question of GSM signal repeaters / boosters and licensing may come up again!

    I saw a company in Louth selling a GSM signal booster for one's house/premises that works for any 2G network: http://www.gsmboostersireland.com/

    I'm guessing that this would require a license to use but don't see a mention of this on their website?


  • #19
    Davy
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Davy


    byrnefm wrote: »
    I know this is a bit of an old thread but with Vodafone's SureSignal out soon, the question of GSM signal repeaters / boosters and licensing may come up again!

    I saw a company in Louth selling a GSM signal booster for one's house/premises that works for any 2G network: http://www.gsmboostersireland.com/

    I'm guessing that this would require a license to use but don't see a mention of this on their website?

    They arent allowed sell them anymore. The law was tightened to ban the sale of any such device that interferes with the wireless signal. The only people allowed to use/distribute such devices are the licence holders like vodafone etc


  • #20
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    I'm a bit confused.

    In this thread, "mobile operators pay license fees to operate exclusively".

    Every mobile handset communicates with the base-station and is transmitting in the frequency band the mobile operator uses.

    Why does amplified the return signal cause a license issue?

    If for example the transceiving antenna was placed on the roof of a building with good line of sight, it could even be set to a power below the threshold 2Watt max, e.g. 1.9Watt. This would mean it would just be like another mobile phone.

    Sounds like over-regulation to me....


  • #21
    Irene M.
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Irene M.


    Well, it's been curious to read about illegality of repeaters. I bought GSM repeater almost 2 years ago from european online shop Myamplifiers after studying well the question. I know that my repeater is certified (CE and RoHS) and under official warranty. No one has ever complained about signal interference, especially some of my neighbours who can also benefit from the intensified signal))) IMHO - If our providers cannot help us in improving mobile reception, I see no other solution that resolving the issue by ourselves.


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  • #22
    IrishTweetie
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭IrishTweetie


    HI Irene, im on the market looking for a GSM booster. I have good (roughly 3 bars) signal outside, but inside i do not get anything with the steel in the building.

    Can you advise what GSM booster you pruchased, does it carry the 3G and 4G networks.. and roughly how much did you pay?

    Thanks in advance for your help
    VIv


  • #23
    Irene M.
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Irene M.


    IrishTweetie wrote: »
    HI Irene, im on the market looking for a GSM booster. I have good (roughly 3 bars) signal outside, but inside i do not get anything with the steel in the building.

    Can you advise what GSM booster you pruchased, does it carry the 3G and 4G networks.. and roughly how much did you pay?

    Thanks in advance for your help
    VIv

    Hi there! Yes, my repeater supports phone calls and 3G connection. I am pretty satisfied with the coverage and signal quality it gives (Nikrans MA450GW model). I am not a professional, but I have seen on Myamplifiers that there are repeaters for GSM only, for 3G or 4G only, and there are all-in-one models that improve all types of mobile connection. I´d advise you to consult with sellers of these devices to choose one basing on your needs and signal reception conditions.

    Good luck with resolving your signal problem;)


  • #24
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,163 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    If comreg were bothered they could hit you with very large fines for this. Chances are they'll make an example of somebody some day.


  • #25
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,055 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    ED E wrote: »
    If comreg were bothered they could hit you with very large fines for this. Chances are they'll make an example of somebody some day.


    Just came across this thread myself. Looking to get a signal booster for my house. What's this about a fine?


  • #26
    Irene M.
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Irene M.


    I agree with you 100%, but if ComReg cared of it... the truth is nobody cares, neither government nor our mobile operators. Besides, if you buy a repeater for personal use it is usually a not very powerful device that can be easily detected as it doesn´t create noticeable interference, so the chance to be caught goes down to zero.
    My Nikrans repeater covers my two-storey house plus patio and it doesn´t reach our neighbours and cannot be perceived from the street, so I hope I´ll go on using it without any problems for long time.


  • #27
    Nigel041
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Nigel041


    Irene M. wrote: »
    I agree with you 100%, but if ComReg cared of it... the truth is nobody cares, neither government nor our mobile operators. Besides, if you buy a repeater for personal use it is usually a not very powerful device that can be easily detected as it doesn´t create noticeable interference, so the chance to be caught goes down to zero.
    My Nikrans repeater covers my two-storey house plus patio and it doesn´t reach our neighbours and cannot be perceived from the street, so I hope I´ll go on using it without any problems for long time.

    Truth is comreg do care, at least they did a few years back....

    A very close friend of mine based in Louth sold these GSM Repeaters for nearly 3years and sold 1000's of them.
    One early Monday morning a knock came to his door it was comreg accompanied by the Garda and a warrant to search the property (his house) they took all of his stock I think about 30 new units and his phones and laptops and any related paperwork, the was at the end of 2010 he heard nothing more until late 2012 when he received a summons for court basically for selling these product and having in his possession, the judge laughed it out of court as he could not make head nor tail of the case and comreg ballsed up there end, basically they were charging him with supplying these without a licence but when the judge asked how he would obtain such licence they had no response, basically there is no licence..

    The fine / sentence is €5000 and or 6months prison, he was fined €600 on the day.

    Comreg did go to a lot of the previous customers and seized there units, don't think they were charged with any crime, not that I'm aware of anyway..

    This case never made it to the papers, so wasn't broadcasted publicly..

    There were a lot of other sellers online around that time and they are all gone now, I presume those other sellers got a visit from comreg around that time..

    There is now one company selling these openly online and have a base can't think of the name off hand.. I doubt very much they a legal to use, and I'm very surprised they are still in business they are going along time now..


  • #28
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,163 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    I know of meteor techs triangulating a Plantronics headset that was broadcasting way outside spectrum and impacting a cell, they are occasionally arsed.


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