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spray foam insulation

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    #32
    MonkieSocks
    Registered Users Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    Anyone got a rough estimate on how much to do the attic and walls on a semi detched average sized house.

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



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    #33
    Macspower
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭Macspower


    MonkieSocks wrote: »
    Anyone got a rough estimate on how much to do the attic and walls on a semi detched average sized house.

    The last 3 bed semi we did cost around 1500 euro but the one before cost 2500 for a similar looking house. What I really mean is that it depends on a number of factors. Would really need to see it to give an accurate price...

    they are however normally an easy job done in a few hours


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    #34
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,544 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    I have removed some one on one business stuff from this thread. The thread should not be used as a diary for a specific business, or to promote or denigrate a specific business, all that should be kept to PM or email please.......:)


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    #35
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Can I ask if there is a grant available from the SEAI for spray foam insulation of attic spaces?:

    Also would the gable walls of the house be covered in the foam and also would the wallplate be sealed/covered in the spray foam insulation?

    Thanks.


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    #36
    Macspower
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭Macspower


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Can I ask if there is a grant available from the SEAI for spray foam insulation of attic spaces?:

    Also would the gable walls of the house be covered in the foam and also would the wallplate be sealed/covered in the spray foam insulation?

    Thanks.

    Firstly a grant is available but it is minimal and outdated... attic is worth 250 euro. however in the current climate we're lucky to get anything I suppose.

    To do the job correctly the gable walls should be sprayed and your wallplate should be filled.


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    #37
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Macspower wrote: »
    Firstly a grant is available but it is minimal and outdated... attic is worth 250 euro. however in the current climate we're lucky to get anything I suppose.

    To do the job correctly the gable walls should be sprayed and your wallplate should be filled.


    Thanks.:)


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    #38
    Jeda
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭Jeda


    Hi Maxpower, I'm also interested in getting this done, could you pm me your details when you get a chance...


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    #39
    Macspower
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭Macspower


    Jeda wrote: »
    Hi Maxpower, I'm also interested in getting this done, could you pm me your details when you get a chance...

    I'll gladly send you some info Jeda,

    In future guys , while I appreciate any business that might some our way by means of this thread, I only intended to give information for boards users about spray foam in general, including the benefits and pitfalls of the product and the industry.

    please just PM me for any private details or prices and we'll try and keep this as an information thread, as per boards rules and mods requests.

    Mods feel free to tidy up any non infomation threads.. :o


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    #40
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Both my attics are getting done in spray foam in 2 weeks time.

    I will post a thread with pics of the instalation process.:)


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    #41
    sas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭sas


    Macspower wrote: »
    this sounds like it is an air tightness membrane and a different thing. An air tightness membrane is not required if an independent Air tightness test has been carried out on the foam.

    Has an independent air tightness test been carried out on your product?

    If so have you then used it on houses aiming for high airtightness levels without the membrane? What results did they obtain on the blower door?

    As a product I find it fascinating. No cutting insulation around pipes, awkward spaces filled perfectly, self supporting (no batten underneath required), fast installation. If only I could get over my suspicion of all things new...


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    #42
    Macspower
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭Macspower


    sas wrote: »
    Has an independent air tightness test been carried out on your product?

    If so have you then used it on houses aiming for high airtightness levels without the membrane? What results did they obtain on the blower door?

    As a product I find it fascinating. No cutting insulation around pipes, awkward spaces filled perfectly, self supporting (no batten underneath required), fast installation. If only I could get over my suspicion of all things new...

    PM me an email address and I will send you a copy of the Air Tightness Test


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    #43
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Can I just ask here.....

    I noticed today,that I have 2 Nymj electric cables and a cold water pipe running through the the roof beams/joists into the ensuite.

    Can they be covered over with the spray foam???:confused:

    And does this mean they they wont rot or deteriate over time (thinking down the line about any future rewires or replumbs in years to come).

    Thanks.:)


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    #44
    Carlow52
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭Carlow52


    My advice is that the cables are best sleeved to allow cooling in air.

    Its the required practice for other forms of insulation so I dont see this as being any different.
    I use 30mm black flexible conduit and split it with a strong scissors and sleeve the cable that way, taping it back into shape- this is assuming u dont take it off at one end and push it through


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    #45
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Carlow52 wrote: »
    My advice is that the cables are best sleeved to allow cooling in air.

    Its the required practice for other forms of insulation so I dont see this as being any different.
    I use 30mm black flexible conduit and split it with a strong scissors and sleeve the cable that way, taping it back into shape- this is assuming u dont take it off at one end and push it through


    Thanks,what about the copper plumbing pipe?

    Is it ok for that to be covered in with spray foam insulation?

    Thanks.:)


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    #46
    Carlow52
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭Carlow52


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Thanks,what about the copper plumbing pipe?

    Is it ok for that to be covered in with spray foam insulation?

    Thanks.:)

    Copper pipe will be fine as long as u are sure all covered joints are DA tight where D might stand for duck

    ps 17/4

    if u have a long run of qualplex or similiar which carries hot water its better to sleeve it as it needs to expand


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    #47
    Macspower
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭Macspower


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Can I just ask here.....

    I noticed today,that I have 2 Nymj electric cables and a cold water pipe running through the the roof beams/joists into the ensuite.

    Can they be covered over with the spray foam???:confused:

    And does this mean they they wont rot or deteriate over time (thinking down the line about any future rewires or replumbs in years to come).

    Thanks.:)


    The foam itself will have no effect whatsoever on your electrical cables. It wont cause overheating or anything like that. However to facilitate future repairs it is best to have it in a conduit. If it's already in place I wouldn't worry too much about it. It can be safely sprayed over without any adverse effect... If you ever need to get to it the foam can always be removed easily..

    As regards the water pipes as mentioned joints should be checked for leaks first and repaired before spraying. Don't worry about expansion as the foam is not rigid and will expand/contract as necessary. If they carry hot water the foam will help keep it hot.


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    #48
    DaveWalsh2020
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭DaveWalsh2020


    Your better off putting in the spacer card as it allows air flow along timbers. This airflow will take the moisture out of the timbers and keep them healthy. There are different types of spacer cards, some are breathable others are not. The bigger the vemtilation gap the better for timbers, its healthier for them.

    You can spray out past the timbers and cut the foam back leaving a nice full fill finish. Then fix your thermally lined plaster board to the timber and its gonna be warm.

    In the dormer crawl space you could bring the spacer card out 25 - 75mm from the felt and spray onto the card and in front of the timber insulating the front of the timbers to stop them conducting heat out of the area. The timbers will breath into the ventilation gap. open cell foam breath (permeates) better than the timbers.

    NSAI agrement cert is good and so is European certification.


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    #49
    DaveWalsh2020
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭DaveWalsh2020


    I am an insulation airtightness Ber Contractor I use to be a Building Contractor. I do all insulation systems and the spray foam is very popular. Some more info is required here.

    Its a 50mm gap for ventilation not 25mm.


    The 50mm gap.
    This detail is for ventialtion not " sarking felts or pushing felts etc ". This ventilation allows the timbers permeate into the ventilation gap. Keeping them healthy and allowing them breathe as we say. Air flow allows the timers permeate into the ventilation gap keeping them healthy. The spray foam ventialtion card or spacer card is to maintain airflow and ventilation. Felts may sark 10mm.

    Foam may be sprayed direct when there is a sarking timber installed under a felt that is counter battoned for ventilation and where a felt only has been counter batton on the tiles/slate side of the felt for ventilation.

    All older houses should always have cards installed as the insulation system should be independant.

    The spray foam requires a vapour control layer not airtightness membrane.

    The density of spray foam is in the ranges of 7 to 20 and the density off building timbers can be 300 - 600 +/- Permability is not a problem there may be other things to watch out for.


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    #50
    cyfac
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭cyfac


    DaveWalsh2020 wrote: »
    I am an insulation airtightness Ber Contractor I use to be a Building Contractor. I do all insulation systems and the spray foam is very popular. Some more info is required here.

    Its a 50mm gap for ventilation not 25mm.


    The 50mm gap.
    This detail is for ventialtion not " sarking felts or pushing felts etc ". This ventilation allows the timbers permeate into the ventilation gap. Keeping them healthy and allowing them breathe as we say. Air flow allows the timers permeate into the ventilation gap keeping them healthy. The spray foam ventialtion card or spacer card is to maintain airflow and ventilation. Felts may sark 10mm.

    Foam may be sprayed direct when there is a sarking timber installed under a felt that is counter battoned for ventilation and where a felt only has been counter batton on the tiles/slate side of the felt for ventilation.

    All older houses should always have cards installed as the insulation system should be independant.

    The spray foam requires a vapour control layer not airtightness membrane.

    The density of spray foam is in the ranges of 7 to 20 and the density off building timbers can be 300 - 600 +/- Permability is not a problem there may be other things to watch out for.

    Hi dave could you explain why an air tight membrane cant be used instead of a vapour barrier please


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    #51
    DaveWalsh2020
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭DaveWalsh2020


    Macspower wrote: »
    The foam itself will have no effect whatsoever on your electrical cables. It wont cause overheating or anything like that.

    Big electric cables or 6 core cables in the attic, like shower and oven cables and the likes do heat up with insulation and there has to be a 75mm gap around it for safety. This is an SEAI requirement that is enforced with vigour...............


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    #52
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    could I batten out the inside of ext walls spray foam the new cavity before I put up plaster board ? or even batten and put up plasterboard and have the cavity back filled with spray foam ? ( no need to shave then )
    thanks


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    #53
    DaveWalsh2020
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭DaveWalsh2020


    The vapour control layer is system requirement "consideration". The datasheets don't ask for airtighness membranes. Vapour control layer is €20 airtighness membrane (siga) €150 plus specialty tapes.+/-. some lads have used foil back plaster board s on certain details.


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    #54
    DaveWalsh2020
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭DaveWalsh2020


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    could I batten out the inside of ext walls spray foam the new cavity before I put up plaster board ? or even batten and put up plasterboard and have the cavity back filled with spray foam ? ( no need to shave then )
    thanks

    Why dont you use metal studs (tougher). If external wall is damp or exposed treat it. Then an inch or two of closed cell (chemical based is tougher) then spray open cell full fill it and then cut it back. Thats a warm job........... No penny pinching there...


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    #55
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    DaveWalsh2020 wrote: »
    Why dont you use metal studs (tougher). If external wall is damp or exposed treat it. Then an inch or two of closed cell (chemical based is tougher) then spray open cell full fill it and then cut it back. Thats a warm job........... No penny pinching there...

    would this be much more expensive than simple dry lining ?
    Its actually a cavity wall but the cavity is too small to be worth filling.


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    #56
    DaveWalsh2020
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭DaveWalsh2020


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    would this be much more expensive than simple dry lining ?
    Its actually a cavity wall but the cavity is too small to be worth filling.

    It would be expensive...If there is a cavity (Blockwork) Id insulate it. Either beads or slow pour spray foam.This can be done later if your managing budget. But thermally lined plaster boards are the best method for insulating as they stop conduction right at source(air within the home). Id get the biggest and best ones. The trick with them is to seal them as you build them onto the wall. Seal them into place with a carlite gypsum compound or another to stop air movement.
    Im thinking you have double leaf blockwork with a small cavity 40/50mm.

    You would want thermally lined walls and cavity filled. Use what you have (safely)........


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    #57
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    DaveWalsh2020 wrote: »
    It would be expensive...If there is a cavity (Blockwork) Id insulate it. Either beads or slow pour spray foam.This can be done later if your managing budget. But thermally lined plaster boards are the best method for insulating as they stop conduction right at source(air within the home). Id get the biggest and best ones. The trick with them is to seal them as you build them onto the wall. Seal them into place with a carlite gypsum compound or another to stop air movement.
    Im thinking you have double leaf blockwork with a small cavity 40/50mm.

    You would want thermally lined walls and cavity filled. Use what you have (safely)........

    thanks.
    Is there somewhere I can find out how to prepare the walls for sticking the boards to them ?
    sorry to derail the thread.


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