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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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Comments

  • #6842
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Tox56 wrote: »
    They have better depth but we are at home. You could say they are 'battle hardened' from a long season, or you could say they're fatigued after a long season. It's a toss up really, and we do have an OK record against them, but unless we absolutely tear them to pieces it will be a decent win but not much more. Not that I'll be complaining.
    Swiwi wrote: »
    If you guys win it will be a fantastic victory, sorry. Firstly, it will utterly cement your top 8 standing. Secondly, need I remind you the last time out was 0-60, so that would be a huge turnaround in fortunes. Thirdly, you will have done it without inspirational players such as BOD & SOB. Last but not least, there would be a fair share of happy Kiwis ;)

    Although in fairness, I see you have won 3 of the last 4 internationals. So maybe you're right, a victory would be decent but not much more.


  • #6843
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    GerM wrote: »
    I do agree but kicking for touch isn't primarily based on winning the opposition's line out. That's the best case scenario. Teams are happy to settle for forcing the opposition outhalf to kick for touch from in their own 22 with very little angle which will provide a significant net gain of territory and possession. It seems fairly mundane and it is but it's a regularly used tactic. The alternative is the scrum half kicking to your back three and getting the ball where you originally had it in space unless it's a very good box kick which is a difficult skill to master.

    Of course, if the opposition have an outhalf that can kick 40m with no angle or a scrum half that can land a box kick pretty much where he wants, it's not a great tactic to employ.

    When Fourie du Preez was at the height of his game (ie 2007) he had one mean box-kick. Could just about make the rugby hall of fame on its own merits. Ball + string come to mind.

    NZ have Dagg who has a prolific boot, and in fact NZ will not generally kick straight to touch from a lineout in their 22, but rather set up a crash-ball to give a better angle for the subsequent kick


  • #6844
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    A rumour off another forum (who said he heard if off someone who talked to Mick Kearney):
    • Court to start against SA, Kilcoyne and Bent on bench.
    • Earls at 13, Zebo at 15.
    • Jackson and Marshall to start against Fiji.

    IMO Zebo has the skillset to play 15, he's great under a high ball and has a big boot, but throwing him in against a side whose primary tactic (kicking the effing leather off the ball) will mean Zebo has a lot of defensive and positional work to do, so it seems a bit mad to play him at 15 given he has never played there at provincial level. At the very least Keith Earls has played 10 or so games at fullback since he came on the scene back in 2008.

    Either way, I think there's little excuse for not winning this game. While Ireland is missing a lot of players, similarly South Africa are missing loads of names as well.


  • #6845
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    It'd be surprising to see Zebo at XV alright.

    Dunno where the rumours are coming from. I'd doubt the coaches have even decided yet?


  • #6846
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    A rumour off another forum (who said he heard if off someone who talked to Mick Kearney):
    • Court to start against SA, Kilcoyne and Bent on bench.

    Dunno about the other two but that makes perfect sense, Healy out Fitzpatrick with fitness issues, Bent and Kilcoyne have to be ahead of any other options since the only other prop in the squad is archer


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  • #6847
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    A rumour off another forum (who said he heard if off someone who talked to Mick Kearney):
    • Court to start against SA, Kilcoyne and Bent on bench.
    • Earls at 13, Zebo at 15.
    • Jackson and Marshall to start against Fiji.

    IMO Zebo has the skillset to play 15, he's great under a high ball and has a big boot, but throwing him in against a side whose primary tactic (kicking the effing leather off the ball) will mean Zebo has a lot of defensive and positional work to do, so it seems a bit mad to play him at 15 given he has never played there at provincial level. At the very least Keith Earls has played 10 or so games at fullback since he came on the scene back in 2008.

    Either way, I think there's little excuse for not winning this game. While Ireland is missing a lot of players, similarly South Africa are missing loads of names as well.

    Little excuse for not having a respectable scoreline. I predict the game will be pretty tight, but a narrow loss (if the team play well) would still be OK in my book.

    A bad loss to Argentina on the other hand...


  • #6848
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    GerM wrote: »
    I do agree but kicking for touch isn't primarily based on winning the opposition's line out. That's the best case scenario. Teams are happy to settle for forcing the opposition outhalf to kick for touch from in their own 22 with very little angle which will provide a significant net gain of territory and possession. It seems fairly mundane and it is but it's a regularly used tactic. The alternative is the scrum half kicking to your back three and getting the ball where you originally had it in space unless it's a very good box kick which is a difficult skill to master.

    Of course, if the opposition have an outhalf that can kick 40m with no angle or a scrum half that can land a box kick pretty much where he wants, it's not a great tactic to employ.


    In certain conditions, kicking for the corners is a good tactic. When Munster played Racing, we should have kicked for the corners more often. We were making no real ground going through the phases, we kept making handling errors...we would have gained a lot more territory for kicking for the corners and as you say, force their out-half to kick for touch from a narrow angle.

    It's a better tactic than aimless kicking back and forth with poor chasing that a lot of teams seem to go in for these days.


  • #6849
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    danthefan wrote: »
    Could not agree more. Whenever I see "game management" in a post these days I just stop reading. I'm convinced 95% of people don't even know what they mean when they use the term. Further to that if outhalf A plays rubbish for 75 minutes then kicks a great touchfinder into the corner and the team win, while outhalf B plays really well and just creates 5 tries for his team and they win at a canter, people seem to think outhalf A is the better "game manager", which is just patently nonsense.


    I'm with you. it's one of those crappy, meaningless, catch all statements that means the square root of feck all and is used to excuse dull, conservative, kick the ball away rugby and to damn other guys that don't have access to the inner sanctum. It's a tedious and slip shod piece of meaningless gibberish. Game management my arse.


  • #6850
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    GerM wrote: »
    Game management is an absolutely valid term. If people would rather it be called decision making, then so be it. Or controlling a game. If you win scrappy line out ball in your own 22 and the defensive line is set, you don't try to sling it wide unless you've spotted something. You send that ball as high and far towards row Z at the halfway line as you can. If you're in your own 22 and your pack is failing to get on top with the opposition slowing the ball down, there's nothing wrong with slotting a kick in behind their back three. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with checking your own back line and calling an up and under and chase to land around their 22.

    Game management can be varying the passing, picking out different areas to attack etc. Madigan isn't great at it. We've seen in the past the fondness for the big skip pass repeatedly. Great skill to watch but the more it's used, the less effective it becomes.His kicking from hand is patchy.

    Game management is dictating the game and influencing what areas of the field play takes place in. It's as applicable to scrumhalves as it is outhalves. For the record, there will always be room for kicking for touch in rugby. Even with the concession of possession, anything that gives a massive gain in territory will be considered.

    We used to call all that 'playing rugby'.


  • #6851
    clsmooth
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It'd be surprising to see Zebo at XV alright.

    Dunno where the rumours are coming from. I'd doubt the coaches have even decided yet?

    In all fairness deccie usually has the team picked months in advance


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  • #6852
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    jacothelad wrote: »
    I'm with you. it's one of those crappy, meaningless, catch all statements that means the square root of feck all and is used to excuse dull, conservative, kick the ball away rugby and to damn other guys that don't have access to the inner sanctum. It's a tedious and slip shod piece of meaningless gibberish. Game management my arse.

    Couldn't disagree more actually.

    While the term itself has lost all meaning, the ability to put your team in the right areas, control the pace the game is played at and how it's played and to map your attacking scenario is all vital.

    Of course this depends on more areas than just 9 and 10, but Madigan has shown that in the past, when we've been on top, he's made crucial 'game management' (!). Kicking out on the full, missing touch from penos, taking quick taps when it's clearly not on and throwing wide flat passes are all example.

    Jackson is far and away ahead of him in that area.


  • #6853
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    not an expert here but it was mentioned to me that when Ferris jumps he adjusts his knee position so that when he lands less impact is taken by his knees. Impact instead goes to his ankle thigh and hip muscles

    Well when you put it like that you could have a point, it certainly makes sense.


  • #6854
    ed7890
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ed7890


    Giving a guy his first ever game at 15 against South Africa would be really unfair to him IMO. Surely if they were thinking about it, in an emergancy, they would have released him to Munster for the Cardiff game and let him play there, and see how he got on.


  • #6855
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    His injuries don't ever seem to be connected. What is wrong with him?! It's just becoming upsetting.

    Perhaps he has weak or over-elastic ligaments. That would explain the nature and frequency of his injuries. Most have been caused by joints being forced out of place. The forces which cause this are common in rugby in certain circs. Most players aren't overly affected but if your joints are not held securely by strong ligamentous support then unfortunately injuries are far more likely as excessive movement within the joint causes more tissue damage than is the norm.
    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    [/LIST]
    Dunno about the other two but that makes perfect sense, Healy out Fitzpatrick with fitness issues, Bent and Kilcoyne have to be ahead of any other options since the only other prop in the squad is archer we don't have another prop in the squad.
    I think that is what you mean.


  • #6856
    Banbridgeman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 322 ✭✭Banbridgeman2


    My form team: 1.Court 2.Strauss 3.Ross 4.McCarthy 5.Touhy 6.Henderson 7.Henry 8.Heaslip 9.Reddan 10.Sexton 11.Zebo 12.D'arcy 13.Cave 14.Bowe 15. Earls


  • #6857
    Iron Hide
    Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭Iron Hide


    Banbridgeman2 wrote: »
    My form team: 1.Court 2.Strauss 3.Ross 4.McCarthy 5.Touhy 6.Henderson 7.Henry 8.Heaslip 9.Reddan 10.Sexton 11.Zebo 12.D'arcy 13.Cave 14.Bowe 15. Earls

    Quality team but theres no way POC wont start unless he's completely broken. Iain Henderson is a fine prospect for the future but a test debut vs Alberts and co is a bit too much at this stage, he should definitely start the Fiji game and maybe 15-20 mins off the bench against the Argies.

    I'd go with

    1.Court
    2.Strauss
    3.Ross
    4.McCarthy
    5.POC
    6.McLaughlin
    7.Henry
    8.Heaslip
    9.Reddan
    10.Sexton
    11.Zebo
    12.D'Arcy
    13.Earls
    14.Bowe
    15.Hurley

    16.Cronin
    17.Kilcoyne
    18.Bent
    19.Ryan
    20.POM
    21.Murray
    22.ROG
    23.McFadden

    The Hurley call will probably anger a few but I don't see why he'd be called up to replace BOD to fart around on the bench with Earls at 15.

    Mike McCarthy is in there to compensate somewhat for the loss of Ferris, same story D.Ryan on the bench, he plays like a madman if he doesn't start.

    I'm not too much of a fan of Bent parachuting into the squad but the other choice is Archer, who would most likely suffer a serious injury if he were to prop against my dog, never mind Steenkamp or Mtawarira.


  • #6858
    LeftBase
    Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    I Cian Healy out?

    For me my 15 would be:

    1. Healy
    2. Strauss
    3. Ross
    4.McCarthy(as I have POC at 5 this will be changed to DOC by Dec:rolleyes:)
    5. POC
    6. McLaughlin
    7. POM(wouldnt be surprised if he got sent off against SA)
    8. Healip.
    9. Reddan
    10. Sexton
    11. Zebo
    12. D'arcy
    13. Mc Fadden
    14. Bowe
    15. Earls

    16. Cronin
    17. Kilcoyne
    18. Bent
    19. Henry
    20. Ryan
    21. Marshall
    22. Turnstile OG
    23. Hurley.


  • #6859
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    A rumour off another forum (who said he heard if off someone who talked to Mick Kearney):
    • Court to start against SA, Kilcoyne and Bent on bench.
    • Earls at 13, Zebo at 15.
    • Jackson and Marshall to start against Fiji.

    IMO Zebo has the skillset to play 15, he's great under a high ball and has a big boot, but throwing him in against a side whose primary tactic (kicking the effing leather off the ball) will mean Zebo has a lot of defensive and positional work to do, so it seems a bit mad to play him at 15 given he has never played there at provincial level. At the very least Keith Earls has played 10 or so games at fullback since he came on the scene back in 2008.

    Either way, I think there's little excuse for not winning this game. While Ireland is missing a lot of players, similarly South Africa are missing loads of names as well.

    I think Zebo at 15 could be a masterstroke. He has shown is safe under a high ball, has a might boot and of course has the pace to counter attack. I for one would really look forward to him playing that role next week.


  • #6860
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    What I'd pick:

    1. Court (presuming Healy out)
    2. Strauss
    3. Ross
    4. Tuohy
    5. Ryan (presuming POC out if not id put Tuohy on the bench)
    6. Locky
    7. Henry
    8. Healip
    9. Reddan
    10. Sexton
    11. Trimble
    12. D'arcy
    13. Cave
    14. Bowe
    15. Earls

    16. Cronin
    17. Kilcoyne
    18. Bent
    19. McCarthy/Tuohy
    20. POM
    21. Murray
    22. Jackson
    23. Zebo


    What I think(/fear) Kidney will pick:

    1. Court (presuming Healy out)
    2. Strauss
    3. Ross
    4. DOC
    5. Ryan (presuming POC out)
    6. Locky
    7. POM
    8. Healip
    9. Murray
    10. Sexton
    11. Zebo
    12. D'arcy
    13. Earls
    14. Bowe
    15. Hurley

    16. Cronin
    17. Kilcoyne
    18. Bent
    19. Ryan/Tuohy
    20. Henry
    21. Redden
    22. ROG
    23. McFadden


  • #6861
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 10,998 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    I think Zebo at 15 could be a masterstroke. He has shown is safe under a high ball, has a might boot and of course has the pace to counter attack. I for one would really look forward to him playing that role next week.

    Id be worried about his positioning having no experience there before and how in the past he has been questioned on his defense on the wing. Saying that I just picked Earls there in my side and he's played 15 very little and his great performance against England he wasn't really tested in defense/positioning. Id pick either one ahead of Hurley though as he shouldnt be near the squad.


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  • #6862
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Would love to see Zebo at 15, I think he's certainly got the core skills necessary for that position. Starting him there against the Boks might be a bit of a stretch though.

    Would be very interesting to see him there for Munster, could be a nice slot in there given Jones' injuries, and would possibly free up O'Dea to start if it went well.


  • #6863
    LeftBase
    Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    I think Zebo at 15 could be a masterstroke. He has shown is safe under a high ball, has a might boot and of course has the pace to counter attack. I for one would really look forward to him playing that role next week.

    SA would BOMB him with balls and he is far from Kearnyesque! It could be a big mistake and a big dent in Zebo's career!


  • #6864
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    Fez is defo out of the series anyhow


  • #6865
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    LeftBase wrote: »
    SA would BOMB him with balls and he is far from Kearnyesque! It could be a big mistake and a big dent in Zebo's career!

    Don't think he's any less commanding under a high ball than Earls tbh, and SA will also be without Habana which is a big loss for kick chases.


  • #6866
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    I'd be happy enough with Zebo at 15. It's an attack minded selection and he's been in good form this season.


  • #6867
    Aardvark1
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Aardvark1


    I am living in the US, anyone know of any websites offering live streaming of the 3 autumn games? http://premiumsports.tv/ have in the past but I don't see anything on their website.


  • #6868
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    durkadurka wrote: »
    Fez is defo out of the series anyhow

    Step forward young Henderson, your time has come!

    What team would people like to see against Fiji?

    Perhaps something like:

    Court
    Strauss
    Fitzpatrick
    McCarthy
    Tuohy
    Henderson
    Henry
    Heaslip
    Marshall
    Jackson
    Zebo
    McFadden
    Cave
    Bowe
    Earls


  • #6869
    Glass Prison 1214
    Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Glass Prison 1214


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    Step forward young Henderson, your time has come!

    What team would people like to see against Fiji?

    Perhaps something like:

    Court
    Strauss
    Fitzpatrick
    McCarthy
    Tuohy
    Henderson
    Henry
    Heaslip
    Marshall
    Jackson
    Zebo
    McFadden
    Cave
    Bowe
    Earls

    I definitely hope that Kilcoyne gets to start in that game over Court.


  • #6870
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »
    I definitely hope that Kilcoyne gets to start in that game over Court.

    Yeah my thinking there is that Fitzpatrick should be our second choice TH, and would think Kidney will want the nous of Court there too.


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  • #6871
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    Zebo was touted - along with Earls and Bowe - as a potential fullback in the squad before Hurley was added. It would be a huge ask for him to slot in at 15 but he has displayed all the skills necessary to shine there other than positioning. His kicking and fielding of the ball have been brilliant this year (Kearney would be proud), and his attacking game has never been in doubt. If it's to work out we'll need Bowe and Trimble to be talking to him all game.

    Would Hurley been needed on the bench, or would we be OK with Cave/McFadden and shifting Earls back?


This discussion has been closed.
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