Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Why are people so afraid of gay marriage?

Options
  • 15-08-2009 8:17pm
    #1
    MultiUmm
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭


    I can't get my head around it. I realise some people argue that marriage has always been between a man and a woman and the like, but how would it really affect peoples day to day lives? (Excluding the gay couple o/c.)

    Others, mainly Christians, argue that gay couples will want to marry in churches, when in reality I'd guess most gay couples wouldn't be too pushed about a religious ceremony.

    So can anyone give me a few reasons as to why so many people are still against gay marriage? And for those of you who are against it, can you tell me how it will drastically change/affect your lives?

    N.B: I've decided that adoption inevitably has become a topic of discussion, so feel free to include it in posts.
    Tagged:


«134567…13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    MultiUmm wrote: »
    N.B: I'd appreciate it if people kept adoption out of this, that's not what we're discussing here.
    The fact of the matter is that adoption is the primary reason people don't want gay marriage.


  • Options
    #3
    MultiUmm
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭MultiUmm


    Aard wrote: »
    The fact of the matter is that adoption is the primary reason people don't want gay marriage.

    Maybe so, but I still think that gay people should be given full marriage rights, regardless of adoption or not. I'm aware that full marriage rights more than likely also mean that gay couples should technically be fully eligible to adopt, but couldn't there be some kind of an exemption on that matter?

    Personally, I don't see why gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt. A child raised by same gender parents is much better off imo then a child drifting from foster home to foster home or even worse stuck in an abusive enviroment. If a child has loving, nurturing parents, I don't see the problem with same sex parents.

    But for the time being I think marriage should be the main issue, adoption second on the agenda.


  • Options
    #4
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    I am for equal rights but I don't understand why gay people would consider marriage within a religion. I would not want to give validation to an institution that has repressed homosexuals since its inception...


  • Options
    #5
    MultiUmm
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭MultiUmm


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    I am for equal rights but I don't understand why gay people would consider marriage within a religion. I would not want to give validation to an institution that has repressed homosexuals since its inception...

    That's a scare mongering tactic some Catholics/ Christians use against gay marriage, but as I said in my opening post I'd imagine the majority of gay people wouldn't want a religious ceremony, especially if it's Catholicism we're talking about. :rolleyes:

    What we do want is full marriage rights in the eyes of the goverment, not the church. Religion shouldn't interfere with matters of the state.
    Some people say civil unions are enough but in reality gay couples don't have half as many rights as married couples. If there needs to be a referendum on gay marriage then so be it, let the public decide.
    However, I wouldn't expect Fianna Fáil to do so anytime soon.


  • Options
    #6
    Tricity Bendix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Tricity Bendix


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    I am for equal rights but I don't understand why gay people would consider marriage within a religion.
    Not everyone who gets married does so "within a religion".


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,107 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Do these people not realise that there are already many gay couples and single gay people with children?
    The sky has not fallen in, though there are perhaps a few extra kids not being raised to hate people for who they love. Oh noes.


  • Options
    #8
    cotwold
    Registered Users Posts: 950 ✭✭✭cotwold


    Aard wrote: »
    The fact of the matter is that adoption is the primary reason people don't want gay marriage.

    I dont think its as plain as that. Most people ive come across haven't made that connection. I know people completely supportive of gay marriage but will hum and haw if you mention adoption. In my view most people who are against gay marriage are either religious and feel as if gay marriage is threatening one of "their religions" (:rolleyes:) ceremonies, or they haven't actually considered the issue enough to see it doesn't affect them unless their gay.

    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    I am for equal rights but I don't understand why gay people would consider marriage within a religion. I would not want to give validation to an institution that has repressed homosexuals since its inception...

    No religion has a monopoly on marriage, contrary to what most Irish Catholics seem to think. They didn't invent the concept and its already been secularised by civil marriage.

    I don't know of any gay people who want Catholicism (or at least believe it realistic) to recognise gay marriage. It'll never happen in our life times and most likely ever.


  • Options
    #9
    Marshy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    I am for equal rights but I don't understand why gay people would consider marriage within a religion. I would not want to give validation to an institution that has repressed homosexuals since its inception...
    Yeah I agree, there shouldn't be any notion of same sex-marriage within a religion in my view. Civil marriage is a different matter.

    Its no surprise at all to me that Gay marriage is such a big deal in this country (as it is in quite a few others). You have to remember homosexual acts were only decriminalised here just over 15 years ago. A lot of Irish people still hold quite conservative views.

    As well as that, internationally same-sex marriage still isn't all that prevalent. Only a handful of countries offer full marriage. The UK currently only have civil partnerships.


  • Options
    #10
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    What rights will Gay marriage give Gay couples that Civil partnership doesn't ?
    Does anyone have a link to the final draft of the legislation ?


  • Options
    #11
    Untense
    Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Untense


    Does anyone have a link to the final draft of the legislation ?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60879213&postcount=1


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    MultiUmm
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭MultiUmm


    Do these people not realise that there are already many gay couples and single gay people with children?

    Of course there are a few gay couples/ single gay parents raising children, I know two women in Tralee who are raising a son together (One of the women had a child with her ex who was a male obviously.) And single gay parents in this country are allowed to adopt but if they have a partner they're not? :rolleyes: Does anyone else see the irony in this? "Oh, you can be bent as a roundabout, just make sure not to do anyting with another man or woman now."


    though there are perhaps a few extra kids not being raised to hate people for who they love. Oh noes.

    :rolleyes: Homophobes will always exist in some shape or form, but why should small minded views outweigh those of the majority?


  • Options
    #13
    MultiUmm
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭MultiUmm


    You have to remember homosexual acts were only decriminalised here just over 15 years ago. A lot of Irish people still hold quite conservative views.



    That is quite true, but progress is made gradually, I don't expect gay marriage to be legalised overnight, nor do many other gay couples.

    The fact that homosexuality was illegal here up til' 93 and considered "sinful" to now being accepted by many is good progress imo. Perhaps people may take the same stance with marriage?


  • Options
    #14
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Tbh, I'm confused as to the purpose of this thread. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of people posting here are pro-gay-marriage. Perhaps you'd find a better answer to your question in another forum - perhaps Humanities, or, if all else fails, AH.


  • Options
    #15
    MultiUmm
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭MultiUmm


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    What rights will Gay marriage give Gay couples that Civil partnership doesn't ?
    Does anyone have a link to the final draft of the legislation ?



    Marriage is symbolic in many ways but it also provides legal guarantees that civil unions don't provide, on things like tax, property, wills, etc.


  • Options
    #16
    MultiUmm
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭MultiUmm


    Aard wrote: »
    Tbh, I'm confused as to the purpose of this thread. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of people posting here are pro-gay-marriage. Perhaps you'd find a better answer to your question in another forum - perhaps Humanities, or, if all else fails, AH.
    Mmm, I was thinking about posting it in AH to get a more broad spectrum of views but I read the charter beforehand and it said there was to be no discusion on sex or sexuality, so I figured I'd be safe and post it here. :/ Shame I didn't think about posting it in humanities. :(

    Would I be able to move it to another forum or is that only up to mods? (Sorry, relative newbie here. :P)


  • Options
    #17
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    MultiUmm wrote: »
    Would I be able to move it to another forum or is that only up to mods? (Sorry, relative newbie here. :P)
    I can move it to Humanities if you'd like.


  • Options
    #18
    MultiUmm
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭MultiUmm


    ixoy wrote: »
    I can move it to Humanities if you'd like.

    If you wouldn't mind that would be great. Hopefully it might pick up there a bit. We'll see.


  • Options
    #19
    I.J.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭I.J.


    MultiUmm wrote: »

    Personally, I don't see why gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt. A child raised by same gender parents is much better off imo then a child drifting from foster home to foster home or even worse stuck in an abusive enviroment. If a child has loving, nurturing parents, I don't see the problem with same sex parents.

    The thing there is that religion is getting in the way of gay couples marrying and adopting and love has never been the main priority of any religion and certainly not Catholicism, which I will speak of because thats the religion I was raised with.


  • Options
    #20
    MultiUmm
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭MultiUmm


    I.J. wrote: »
    The thing there is that religion is getting in the way of gay couples marrying and adopting and love has never been the main priority of any religion and certainly not Catholicism, which I will speak of because thats the religion I was raised with.

    But why should the Catholic church have such a strangle hold on what the goverment decides about children, adoption, gay rights etc? We can't let the Catholic church dictate to us on how to run things, look where that got us and what implications it had, i.e horrific abuse of children in Catholic institutions and a culture of fear and silence, just naming two of many injustices they are guilty of.

    This is kind of OT I suppose, but I was raised Catholic as well, but defected (not officially but soon hopefully) after I realised it was an institution based on hypocrisy and bull.


  • Options
    #21
    cotwold
    Registered Users Posts: 950 ✭✭✭cotwold


    MultiUmm wrote: »
    :rolleyes: Homophobes will always exist in some shape or form, but why should small minded views outweigh those of the majority?

    I wouldn't be confident that if gay marriage went to referendum that it would get a majority vote. Im not saying that everyone that would vote against it is a homophobe but a lot of people are still limited by their conservatism in Ireland.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Rick_
    Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Rick_


    MultiUmm wrote: »
    If a child has loving, nurturing parents, I don't see the problem with same sex parents.
    You don't, but unfortunately there are still a lot of narrow minded arsewipes out there who can't differentiate between 'homosexual' and 'paedophile' and are convinced if we got anywhere near a child that we'd try to molest it. They probably also think the marriage is a front to make it easier to get access to a child. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #23
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    MultiUmm wrote: »
    ........
    So can anyone give me a few reasons as to why so many people are still against gay marriage? And for those of you who are against it, can you tell me how it will drastically change/affect your lives?

    N.B: I've decided that adoption inevitably has become a topic of discussion, so feel free to include it in posts.

    First off, I don't think that something has to drastically change/affect your life in order for you to have an opinion on it, and those opinions can range from mild to very strong and anywhere in between.
    IMHO things that may influence peoples negative attitude to gay marriages...

    1. Religious belief influence on marriage - some people often equate marriage as a purely religious ceremony, and to a large degree discount the civil/legal aspect of the whole event. As such their Religious view tends to primarily influence their views on marriage, be it civil or religious

    2. 'Moral / Religious' beliefs - some people view homosexuality are morally wrong and gay people as being sexually deviant. They are against the concept of sexual relations between same sex couples both in theory and in practice, and as such do not support the official recognition and validation that marriage would provide

    3. Adoption - some people believe that the ideal environment to raise adoptive children is in a 'traditional, heterosexual, married environment'. Adoptions by gay married people would not support this view.


  • Options
    #24
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Thread moved at the request of the OP.


  • Options
    #25
    I.J.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭I.J.


    MultiUmm wrote: »
    But why should the Catholic church have such a strangle hold on what the goverment decides about children, adoption, gay rights etc? We can't let the Catholic church dictate to us on how to run things, look where that got us and what implications it had, i.e horrific abuse of children in Catholic institutions and a culture of fear and silence, just naming two of many injustices they are guilty of. .

    Religions around the world, in this country Catholicism, have brainwashed and burned hate and bigotry into the brains of its followers. There is stigma which is carrying through the generations. Its reported that aapprox 90% Irish people claim to be Catholic. Things will move forward but slowly. Look at it this way, the Catholic Church can't get away with burning homosexuals at the stake anymore so maybe some day its verbal hate and bigotry will not be tolerated and love will finally flourish through society.


  • Options
    #26
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    Ignorance and/or religious hatred.

    Nothing else explains it.


  • Options
    #27
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    1. gay divorce - although there is a lot of money to be made in this so I'd imagine the family law lawyers would love if gay marriage were legislated

    2. married people losing certain privaleges - like spousal health insurance and other employment related benefits. It would be costly and since they cant discriminate they would have to revoke it from everyone. Either that or costs of health insurance etc, would go up since there are more people to cover.

    3. Immigration


  • Options
    #28
    SeekUp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭SeekUp


    irishgrover wrote: »
    2. 'Moral / Religious' beliefs - some people view homosexuality are morally wrong and gay people as being sexually deviant.

    I'd say that this hits the nail on the head . . . many people think that gay marriage is immoral, even though it wouldn't affect them on a personal level on a daily basis.

    It doesn't matter that no physical harm is being done to anyone; to them it's the same concept as public indecency or not speaking up/calling the police when you see someone putting graffiti on a public building. Those may not be the best examples, but you know what I mean . . . I don't always think it's a case of people being afraid, just that some people think it's morally wrong, so they want to prevent it from being done.


  • Options
    #29
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    I have no problem with gay marriage in fact I know a couple who for legal and loving reasons it would be nice to see them married. However despite all my free views I do have a problem with gay adoption. Why? I dont know! Maybe i am biased. Maybe I am a bigot or something. The good side is my fathers generation did not like people being gay so we have come along. Perhaps my kids wont mind!

    I am curious though! If I was married in the morning and found out I could not have kids I would have to apply for adoption. Under adoption laws and rules I am subject to very strict rules and checks. If a gay couple passed these checks i am sure I would not mind them adopting


  • Options
    #30
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Gay adoption would be the reason I would object too.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    Why would anyone have a problem with gay adoption?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement