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M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Still on for 2013 as far as I'm concerned.

    Yeah, Kelly is contradicting what his boss said last December, that funding was planned for 2013. Or Maybe Leo is just getting cute and realized that a Dub telling people from outside dublin (while still planning idiotic things like MN for the pale) is a bad idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Deputy Michael Kitt, who said he was disillusioned by the response from Minister for Transport Alan Kelly to questions raised in relation to the road projects in the Dáil recently. [...]
    “[...] It is now reported that consideration has been given to completing the Gort to Athenry section only. This is bad news for Tuam where there is traffic congestion and for years, there have been traffic delays between Tuam and Galway City.”

    When questioned on the future of the routes by the Galway Independent, Sean O’Neill of the NRA said that the N17/18 Gort to Tuam Motorway Project is “subject to two main funding challenges” as a result of the current financial difficulties in the private investment community and also in government funding.

    “Currently, the N11 Arklow to Rathnew/Newlandscross Flyover Project (combined project) is going through final confirmation of funding from the private investment community. If funding is confirmed on this combined scheme, it would be a positive indicator toward investment support for the construction of the N17/N18 Gort to Tuam Motorway Project,” he added.

    However, Deputy Kitt appealed to the Minister to engage with the National Roads Authority to speed up the process and help guarantee the future of the project.
    link

    Where'd he get this (report of Gort->Athenry only) bit from? The top of his head? Or is there a genuine information (as opposed to gossip) somewhere about this?

    Or is he just trying to keep himself in the news and show the great things he's doing for East Galway after being upstaged this week by his West Galway colleague?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    serfboard wrote: »
    Where'd he get this (report of Gort->Athenry only) bit from?

    That rumour crops up every couple of months, he is the cause of this one himself. He asked a dáil question of Alan Kelly stating these "reports". Kelly responded saying that it was in the best interests of the area concerned that the entire thing be built together.

    The one thing I'd take out of the questions is a denial that there are any plans to put a toll on the route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭jenningso


    http://www.galwaynews.ie/26016-european-funding-promise-gort-tuam-atlantic-corridor

    But where will the rest of the €530 million come from!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    jenningso wrote: »
    http://www.galwaynews.ie/26016-european-funding-promise-gort-tuam-atlantic-corridor

    But where will the rest of the €530 million come from!

    About €140m has been paid out (hand, studies etc) - I wonder where they're getting the other €100m though because estimates for construction of the road are €250m - €300m.

    This doesn't seem to be new (it was first mentioned here 2 years ago) but somebody appears to have asked the question about EIB funding of this project. It appears that up to €170m is still available.

    It raises two questions - how much of this money are we likely to see and how much are the preferred bidders trying to raise?

    The article also suggests that BAM have actually pulled out (I knew they had funding issues, but don't remember seeing that they have actually pulled out)
    Work was due to begin on the €530 million Gort-Tuam route in early 2010, but BAM Balfour Beatty, the private partner pulled out because of difficulties raising the necessary funding.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    The article also suggests that BAM have actually pulled out (I knew they had funding issues, but don't remember seeing that they have actually pulled out)

    May just be sloppy writing on Galway News article, the Irish Times story states:

    "the BAM Balfour Beatty consortium was not able to secure suitable funding due to concerns about Ireland’s sovereign debt."

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0528/1224316807295.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    So does this mean we are any closer to getting this project up and running next year?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    glineli wrote: »
    So does this mean we are any closer to getting this project up and running next year?

    No, as I said earlier we knew about this 2 years ago.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    This is a FG councillor in Tuam telling us about EIB funds secured in early 2010 and discussed here years ago.

    He should go back to what he is good at, ie Chairing the Tuam Credit Union :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭yer man!




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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    yer man! wrote: »

    Secured more than two years ago. Anything pro-Europe is being re-announced due to the referendum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    There's a full article about this in the Connacht Tribune today.

    Yes it's conveniently announced the week of the referendum but there are a couple of interesting details that are new or explain (plausibly) the reason for the delay when we know there's EIB commitment for 2 years.
    Discussions with the European Commission to provide a funding mechanism for the 57km Gort to Tuam motorway are at a “critical stage” and the project could be given the green light in the coming weeks.

    We've had about a half dozen false starts, i'm not holding my breath.
    Public Expenditure and Reform Minister Brendan Howlin said he is keeping hopes high that €173m in funding can be leveraged from the European Structural Fund and European Investment Bank for the motorway, which would create around 2,500 jobs.

    I haven't heard anything about money from the European Structural Fund wrt any roads project in Ireland for a while because we've been out of Objective 1 status (even with the fiddling to keep the BMW region O1 for a bit longer) for a few years.
    If the €173m funding – which has been approved in principle by the Investment Bank – can be secured, it’s understood roadbuilding consortium BAM Balfour Beatty would then be in a position to find private investors.

    Galway East Labour TD Colm Keaveney told the Connacht Tribune that the project is topping the list of capital-ready projects in this country at the moment.

    If it's capital ready wtf is the reason for it not being started already?
    He explained (sic Deputy Kenny, Galway East) that technical discussions are taking place between Minister Howlin, the European Commission and the European Investment Bank, because Ireland does not have an AAA-rated bank, and a “firewall” for the investment in the road would have to be provided.

    The European Investment Bank has already agreed in principle to providing €173m – the backing from Europe is expected to be a strong enough guarantee to the BAM Balfour Beatty consortium to raise the private investment element of the project.

    So there are apparently more strings attached to the EIB funding that was clear before (or it could just be window dressing to explain away the "reappearance" of the funding this week)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 mintoffdom


    MYOB wrote: »
    Secured more than two years ago. Anything pro-Europe is being re-announced due to the referendum.

    Cynical doesn't even begin to describe it :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭black47


    Taken from RTE website

    Ireland to benefit from European Investment Bank collateral rule change

    Updated: 19:41, Friday, 22 June 2012







    Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has said the European Investment Bank had agreed to relax the collateral rules allowing the Government and the private sector to access fresh funding.
    1 of 100060ef5-314.jpg Michael Noonan, pictured with Jean Claude Juncker, announced the change in European Investment Bank's rules after today's ECOFIN meeting


    Related Stories
    The funding is expected to be announced as part of a package of growth measures to be agreed at next week's summit of EU leaders.
    Projects which could be earmarked for funding could include the Dublin-Wexford road, the Tuam-Gort road, new schools and community health centres, Mr Noonan said.
    EU leaders are expected to increase the capital of the EIB by €10 billion.
    The increase could in turn leverage the EIB's lending capacity to up to €60bn which would be spent on infrastructure projects.
    Ireland's access to EIB funding is limited, since as a triple A-rated bank it requires certain collateral rules.
    But Mr Noonan said the EIB president had agreed to look at ways of relaxing those rules to access more funding.
    "At present the EIB are undercommitted to Ireland, so there's scope for improvement." the Minister said.

    Fingers crossed


  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    I see they have started a new road through that bad section between Milltown and Tuam. This measn it will be a generation before any new M17 comes north of tuam anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    yew_tree wrote: »
    I see they have started a new road through that bad section between Milltown and Tuam. This measn it will be a generation before any new M17 comes north of tuam anyway.

    Wrong thread - you should be in the Tuam to Claremorris thread.

    That section of road is in planning for years and needs to be done regardless of any section of DC


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    antoobrien wrote: »
    That section of road is in planning for years and needs to be done regardless of any section of DC
    Not that we need *M*17 north of there anyway. If it was me it'd get wide single carriageway! But we got rid of that. :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Not that we need *M*17 north of there anyway. If it was me it'd get wide single carriageway! But we got rid of that. :confused:

    Don't think it's planned for M status, just DC (as the M6 was originally).

    Besides isn't there information floating around that says wide S1 is as expensive as DC?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    As expensive as narrow DC and significantly more dangerous due to the risk of headons with ~250km/h closing speeds


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    MYOB wrote: »
    As expensive as narrow DC and significantly more dangerous due to the risk of headons with ~250km/h closing speeds
    As expensive to build, but maintenance cost of DC is far higher than SC.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Projects which could be earmarked for funding could include the Dublin-Wexford road, the Tuam-Gort road, new schools and community health centres, Mr Noonan said.
    I find it interesting that only two road projects get mentioned, and that this is one of them.

    So the GCOB and the M20 are dead?


  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭jenningso


    spacetweek wrote: »
    As expensive to build, but maintenance cost of DC is far higher than SC.

    Dublin based bias as usual. You think single carraigeways are the way to go because of cost, but with little regard to safety? Maintenance costs on proper DCs are less due to increased efficiencies and better design features. I wonder were you complaining when they widened the m50?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    ^^ N17 north of Tuam will be narrow dc. It's the standard nowadays y'know. It doesnt really matter as it wont be built for another 40 years


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    spacetweek wrote: »
    As expensive to build, but maintenance cost of DC is far higher than SC.

    Only because we insist on continuing with the razor-wire barriers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    MYOB wrote: »
    Only because we insist on continuing with the razor-wire barriers.

    Maybe we could adopt narrower concrete barriers, like in figure 20:

    http://www.transport.tas.gov.au/road/road_hazard_management_guide?SQ_DESIGN_NAME=printer_friendly#22


  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭f2


    Anything happening with M17, no sign of a start date. I saw that the European Investment Fund were putting 172 million towards it, usual policital announcements and then the silence is deafening. Has the land been purchased, talking to people around Tuam, some landowners are paid but more are not, some fencing has been done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    f2 wrote: »
    Anything happening with M17, no sign of a start date. I saw that the European Investment Fund were putting 172 million towards it, usual policital announcements and then the silence is deafening. Has the land been purchased, talking to people around Tuam, some landowners are paid but more are not, some fencing has been done.

    The EIB loan facility is there for two years, the CPOs were announced 3 years ago (there's supposedly been €120m-€140m been spent on land).

    This is waiting on BAM (tender winner) to find the rest of the capital, don't hold your breath.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Had we not blown the money on the WRC we would be able to afford this project ( along with the CPOs already spent and the €170m EIB loan of course) .


  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭f2


    It was strongly rumoured Roadbridge were taking over the project but nothing came of it, talking to a local landowner he said some of his neighbours were paid but he is having problems trying to get the council to send out the final papers for signing. Im hoping it might start, hoping for some work!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Had we not blown the money on the WRC we would be able to afford this project ( along with the CPOs already spent and the €170m EIB loan of course) .
    WRC: th e ultimate prof that the theory "build it and they'll come" is a fallacy made up by people.that just don't want to see something built.


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