Wind farms - ugly truths

Markcheese wrote: »

Did anyone hear the argument/debate thingy on the mooney show (radio 1 ) last Friday... I doubt it'll change anyone's mind one way or the other but it was interesting...
There was a survey mentioned about attitudes across the country to wind farm, with cork (with most wind farms) being most positive,and west Meath (with none) being most negative.....
Now I've no idea who did the survey and how.. How they factored county sizes and population ect,ect.. But thought it interesting....

Thing to remember with the survey - imo

Cork - its the biggest county in Ireland - and part of Ireland biggest county - so MANY Cork people are not near enough to a wind farm to form a negative opinion.

Westmeath on the other hand is part of the Midlands were 2,500 turbines are/were proposed for Uk export.

Seen somewhere where one of the wind developers used the Cork vs Westmeath wind farm numbers thing to argue that wind farms don't impact house prices - and to support the point - he argued that Westmeath houses fell further then Cork house prices.

Again point been missed - is that houses in Cork are very often not near wind farms. While Cork has more wind farms then Westmeath - it does seem that a lot of future focus for the Midlands - is on wind turbines - almost to the point where one is left with the impression that the future for the Midlands is turbines - that's the no 1 thing - it seems.

That's helping drive negativity in the Midlands towards turbines - further I think

Markcheese wrote: »

Did anyone hear the argument/debate thingy on the mooney show (radio 1 ) last Friday... I doubt it'll change anyone's mind one way or the other but it was interesting...
There was a survey mentioned about attitudes across the country to wind farm, with cork (with most wind farms) being most positive,and west Meath (with none) being most negative.....
Now I've no idea who did the survey and how.. How they factored county sizes and population ect,ect.. But thought it interesting....

In Cork most of the wind farms up till now have been constructed in isolated upland areas with little housing for miles in many cases. The governments crazy targets for wind now mean ever bigger turbines are starting to be built in more populated rural areas which is directly related to the growing number of anti-wind campaigns that are now popping up all over the country.
It doesn't help either that since the start of the year ABP has rubber stamped plans for nearly a dozen major wind farms in various locations against the advice of their own planners. The High court has recently over turned one of these flawed decisions in relation to a windfarm in Roscommon and there is currently another half dozen going through the courts as we speak. Sadly the lessons from the developer led planning disasters of the Celtic Tiger have clearly not been learnt by our so-called planning experts.

I suppose basically - we need to work to ensure we have a solution that works well for residents.

If we are saying its okay to pick out groups of residents around the country - decide their future lives don't matter - then that's BAD policy. So we need to plan for the future of the resident - even if we find that its difficult.

I would personally prefer a solution where we can ensure that projects that are given planning - are in fact safe and problem free for the residents - this should be normal proper procedure.

And we need to have a PROPER plan to address any unforeseen issues - ie - Govt, planners and developers genuinely thought everything was going to be fine - but there are issues with the actual project.

I feel leaving residents in limbo is unacceptable - they need to be able to plan their future living in confidence

"Cork - its the biggest county in Ireland - and part of Ireland biggest county - so MANY Cork people are not near enough to a wind farm to form a negative opinion."


Yup Cork county is big... But it's not the sahara , quite a lot of people live in rural cork ,even pretty, touristy west cork ,!!
But proximity to a wind farm should have been a factor in the survey...
Incidently , there are a few wind turbines in more urban/commuter belt areas in cork 2 in aghada, and 3 a couple of miles away In ringaskiddy ....
No big commotion ,

" would suggest you check the output from these turbines - and see if they are market "green bling" turbines or if they are driven hard to drive a profit turbines"

The 3 in ringaskiddy are only operational since late spring , could be "greenwash", but an expensive way to do it ,especially with all the bad pr about turbines... But if you have output figures and reasons why they're an exceptional case , fire
them up...
The 2 turbines in aghada are just wind turbines... Not the biggest in the country (even when they went up )

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Very little of the infrastructure and housing built during the boom would have happened if you'd insisted on stuff being problem free for existing residents.

The LUAS upgrades will disrupt the centre of Dublin for ages. Newlands Cross roadworks too.

You are in effect asking for privileges which the majority of the population who live in large urban areas are denied.

Infrasound is not a problem, because people who live near the sea don't suffer from it.

Pylons aren't a health problem because none of the people campaigning against then have asked for compensation or remediation for the urban dwellers who have lived with them for years.


Yes it would be nice if there was a cheaper solution than compulsory purchase of affected buildings at current market value that would make everyone happy. But as someone who already subsidises rural services I don't particularly want to subsidise irrational pseudo-science scaremongering, especially when the subsidies are being denied to urban dwellers who also have infrasound and construction projects foisted upon them. So if there is a more expensive solution than CPO's , I'm not really all that interested given the complete lack of empathy of the rural protesters for the plight of urbanites in similar circumstances.



Yes it would be nice if communities had a share / stake in local wind farms.

And again we got 25% of our electricity last winter from renewables, and it could have been double that if the grid could accept more asynchronous sources.

When I meant problem/hassle free for the resident - I mean when the project is up and running.

In terms of the rest of your points - do you see ensuring that a project is problem free for residents when OPERATIONAL (all turbines operating and supplying to grid - commissioning fully done) as a block to wind development.

If wind turbines don't cause issues for the residents - then ensuring that should be very possible.

Btw - when I say problem free - I don't expect life to be perfect - what I mean by problem free - is that residents can ACTUALLY live in their homes comfortably and have a decent quality of life.

if both of those - been able to live in the home comfortably - and a decent quality of life IN THE HOME is an issue for you - why is this - do you not feel that comfortable living in the home and a decent quality of life in the home - is compatible with wind turbines.

What standards should a resident reasonably expect from the wind energy project near their homes. What safety standards should be in place - and do you think its reasonable for a resident to continue to expect to be able to live in their homes - if no buyout scheme is offered by developer and Govt of homes nearby

Btw - all I want to do - is to try and create a future for communities - and the people who live in them - not mess up Dublin.

If your saying that ensuring a future for Rural communities is wrong because it interferes with the building of wind farms - are you then saying the way forward is to wind down rural communities.

And if that is the case - how do we plan the futures of the people in these communities.

The way I look at it - is that people are entitled to be able to plan for their future - with some sort of confidence. This future may be where they are now - or they may end up moving somewhere else.

This is where proper planning is required.

I would prefer (but it may not be possible) to plan the future for communities - in a way that sees the people living in the communities now - been able to continue living there if they WANT TO.

I know you and I have different outlooks on this - I respect the points your making - even if I don't agree with them.

I do think whatever the best way forward is - if we are creating a BETTER future for Ireland - we shouldn't exclude people from it simply because their community is in a bad location - ie a wind farm site.

We need a broad planning strategy - that looks at how to deliver energy - but also looks at how people will live in the future.

The how people will live in the future is the part that's overlooked imo - wider debate needed when simply what we are having here

The most interesting part of the article being

said Melissa Whitfield Aslund, a scientist at the Canadian consulting firm Intrinsik, whose clients include wind energy developers. ..... Whitfield Aslund collaborated with six Intrinsik colleagues to review nearly 60 studies

So not exactly an independent - and obviously does not cover cases which were settled out of court when individuals got paid for silence

To give some balance and the opposing view then read waubrafoundation dot org dot au/resources/wind-turbine-noise-adverse-health-effects-june-2014/
(as a new user I am not allowed to post proper links)

Waubrafoundation are often accused of be non-wind biased but disregard that element and take the document as a summary of the links to many medics and acousticians who cite their views on the matter.

3.2 km may be seen as excessive by many - but I think nonetheless - the county manager in Offaly and others driving wind policy - are handling things completely the wrong way

http://www.tullamoretribune.ie/articles/news/41837/drop-wind-turbine-set-back-plan-council-chief/

The questions should be

1) what is a good outcome for residents

2) What safety standards should be applied to wind development.

The 3,2 km setback in the Offaly CDP - whatever flaws one might feel it has was bought in by the councillors - in a bid to give better assurance and comfort to residents.

Now love them or hate them - the reality is that many people in rural communities have no confidence in wind developers or the way planning of wind turbines is done in this country and the standards that apply.

So what is the way forward - and how do we plan the future of residents who might or will be impacted on by having wind developers near their homes.

Now some may feel that the way forward in dealing with rural residents is to say tough luck - but I personally feel the wind industry needs to up its game - and the whole renewables sector in general.

If a resident can live happily with wind turbines nearby - then great - but we need to look at what happens when problems araise because the idea that problems can crop up for residents - with a project - whether its noise or some other issue - and the issue NOT be fixed - we need to move away from the idea that this is acceptable.

To me its simply - pro wind people - and most importantly - wind developers say the wind energy is safe - great - so lets make sure the project is perfectly safe - otherwise the promises are a waste of time

Painful as the idea sounds - we must plan how people are going to live in the future - and yes we will have to consider making changes to how we live. However this does need consultation with residents and homeowners - so that we can find solutions that work okay. Its important I think that people can plan their future going forward with some certainty and with as much confidence as possible. A key aspect of this - is that if promises are made - that we DELIVER on those promises - because delivering on promises - will help improve confidence

Are one off houses badly planned - well yes - but the state has to accept that its county councils gave planning for these houses - so its not now good enough to hang residents out to dry - when a normal member of the public should not be expected to know what the proper way to plan houses are. That's why theres planners and other people who are supposed to have these skills and knowledge.

So if we are going to impose changes and impose projects of concern - we need to improve how we plan them - and look at alternative options for how people would live - and indeed how we would look at improving the renewables technology.

Anti wind groups and anyone criticising wind in their local area is seen as the bad boys (nimbyism) - but there comes a point where we may need to consider the idea that the wind developers, wind turbine manufacturers and the renewables industry in general - need to do more to improve their solutions.

"It will ruin everything we've worked for and completely devalue our property"!

"The wind-farm project in Tipperary has created animosity in the community between those who will benefit financially from the wind farm and those who wont"!

That says it all!

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10647103_620925894689093_7772818874430364441_n.jpg

fclauson wrote: »

triple glaze will not keep out the noise - who ever even cited this as a use case for triple glaze obviously has no concept of the types of sound which wind farms produce

In actual fact triple glazing could make the situation worse and leaving the wind open could diminish the impact of the specific tones of a wind turbine

I think where the triple glazing is coming form - is this pretence that if you can't hear it in the normal hearing range - its not going to be an issue.

In other words the people saying triple glazing will help - don't actually think infrasound is an issue.

They probably think (a) weighted measurement (dbA) is an acceptable way to measure the impact of noise from wind turbines on homes :rolleyes::mad:.

Even I know that (a) weighted measurements don't measure infrasounds - because (a) weighted measurements only measure the normal hearing range - which completely excludes infrasounds