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Temporary Clerical Positions in the Public Service

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  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭skitzyspider


    There's no truth in that at all. I have got the TCO job for the last 5 years running..Im currently working as a TCO at the moment and over the years I have been placed in various departments and no I am not related to anybody in these departments and neither has any of the other TCO's I have worked with over the years.

    It annoys me when people suggest that "I must know somebody" :mad: as every year I have been offered a contract based on my own merits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,329 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    scoopmine wrote: »
    Anyone got any idea how long it takes to get a reply after you do the questionaire. I did mine last Friday!

    Depends could take up to two weeks to a month. I did it last year and I got a response I was unsuccessful within three weeks from the date I completed the questionnaire.


  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭Cian92


    elPadrino wrote: »
    I am a civil servant. Last year, 4 out of 8 temporary clerical officers taken on in my area were related to other members of staff. A coincidence? I doubt it.

    Well 1 in 6 of all employees work in the civil or public service. Still think it is a coincidence? Probably not.

    As regards the does this only happen in Ireland question, nepotism would be rife in Japan, way more prevalent than in Ireland, in Japan it isn't seen as a bad thing (God only knows why).

    If you don't get the job, maybe you should just accept somebody better than you got it, rather than begrudge everybody else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 kazz2012


    Cian92 wrote: »

    If you don't get the job, maybe you should just accept somebody better than you got it, rather than begrudge everybody else.

    I dont begrudge anyone a job I know wat its like to be out of work, but if you know someone in any company not just civil service your appplication is def favoured.
    Obviously not everyone has a relative n will get in on their own merits. I didnt mean to insult people who work hard n get the job but I have gone on interviews where I was asked if I knew anyone working in the company. :confused:why?


  • Registered Users Posts: 705 ✭✭✭keepkeyyellow


    From my personal experience the TCO thing has no nepotism. The people interviewing me hadn't a clue what office I was going to end up in, and all the TCO's that were brought in had no family in there. Having that said in the pernament staff there was two daughter and mother duos and an uncle related to someone as well but I really think they're trying to stamp that out.

    And also if one of your relations helped you get a job you wouldn't be complaining on here....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,594 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    There's no truth in that at all. I have got the TCO job for the last 5 years running..Im currently working as a TCO at the moment and over the years I have been placed in various departments and no I am not related to anybody in these departments and neither has any of the other TCO's I have worked with over the years.


    In fairness, I did a TCO gig two years ago: of the seven TCOs in the office that summer, two were related to the one fairly senior manager.


  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭cornerforward13


    Three years ago while in college, I spent a summer as a TCO and I didnt even do an interview, I got it because my aunt got me in. True story


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    Three years ago while in college, I spent a summer as a TCO and I didnt even do an interview, I got it because my aunt got me in. True story

    This would more than likely have come under "summer staff" which were used to cover term time. The TCO positions where you need to apply and do an interview are treated differently. The PS doesn't take on "summer staff" anymore and term time has been changed to a shorter working year where the length of unpaid leave taken is much shorter.

    There's no doubt that nepotism played a role in "summer staff" but as another poster said, this has been largely stamped out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭EdenHazard


    whats the story if i get this and then have to do exams during the time im working?


  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Amzie


    EdenHazard wrote: »
    whats the story if i get this and then have to do exams during the time im working?

    There really accommodating if you need time off, I had exams nd I was only there 2 weeks and they gave me time off no probs :) you get annual leave days based on how long your contract is so don't worry about it :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Chinafoot wrote: »
    This would more than likely have come under "summer staff" which were used to cover term time. The TCO positions where you need to apply and do an interview are treated differently. The PS doesn't take on "summer staff" anymore and term time has been changed to a shorter working year where the length of unpaid leave taken is much shorter.

    There's no doubt that nepotism played a role in "summer staff" but as another poster said, this has been largely stamped out.

    Sorry, that's not true I'm afraid. I applied for clerical officer positions in Offaly County Council less than 5 years ago. I sat a Public Appointments Commission examination along with 350+ others and I came in the top 20.

    Having been TESTED in the clerical skills required, I then was called to an interview with Offaly County Council. It turned out to be a 'preliminary' interview. After 20 minutes, it turns out I was unsuitable skillwise, which I found out after I received the letter etc.

    Under FOI, I requested my interview notes. They took a while to arrive. When they did, the notes 'noted' that I had worked in Cork and worked for Eircom, neither of which was true and neither of which I could have possibly said. 3 of the 20 minutes of the interview were spent discussing a set-top box that one of the interviewers had, which was introduced into Ireland by a company I worked for and which I was lead salesperson.

    I wrote to the Director of Services and his HEO below him to complain. Not just for myself (I was dead in the water the minute I complained) but for the 350 people who had boots wiped on them. I had scored 70% in their education rating despite having an MSc in business management. For a clerical role!! I enquired what was 100% rated at? PhD? For a clerical role? Strange scale indeed.
    I had scored 55% in clerical skills, despite having not been tested in those during interview and having been tested in them at PAC test and scoring 19th out of 350+ people ??

    All of the staff who were appointed were already county council temps. NONE of the Urban District Council staff who sat the exam were appointed. There was blue murder going on down there over this.

    I emailed back and forward and, getting no joy, contacted the County Manager, a supposed straight-shooter. New into the role, he may not have wantd to win this battle and lose others but, at any rate, despite numerous pleas to logic and reason, my query went nowhere.

    I have the documentation and I have the emails to HEO, Director of Services and County Manager (to PAC also) to prove that the process was far from clean and that my application and that of almost 350 other people was a waste of time in that instance.

    Both of the people interviewing for that preliminary interview had coached the Offaly County Council staff prior to interviews.

    Make of all of that what you will. I now work for another semi-state, where I DID get in on my own merit.

    The PAC are involved in the interview process of other groups not simply to streamline and it and to make it objective, but purely to keep themselves busy and in a job. There was no investigation process into the hard evidence that I forwarded.

    I should point out that I had undergone civil service interview training with a woman called Mary near Timahoe, Portlaoise who specialises (successfully) in getting people over the line. I was ready for (and answered) all of the anally retentive knockout questions such as 'how many councillors are there?' instead of 'what is the function and remit of county councillors?'.

    Is there corruption at county council level, despite the involvement of the Public Appointments Commission? YES. I have a full file that I have kept and if the county manager should dare re-enter controversy or dare I say politics again, I will present this little controversy to a journalist as a lesson in not to f8ck with certain ideological and honest people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,594 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Chinafoot wrote: »
    This would more than likely have come under "summer staff" which were used to cover term time. The TCO positions where you need to apply and do an interview are treated differently. The PS doesn't take on "summer staff" anymore and term time has been changed to a shorter working year where the length of unpaid leave taken is much shorter.

    There's no doubt that nepotism played a role in "summer staff" but as another poster said, this has been largely stamped out.

    Not true in all departments.

    The one I was in used TCOs to cover staff on term time leave, and some were related to a senior manager (I recognised them from the interviews).


  • Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭scoopmine


    Hope I hear something back soon really hoping something will come off this!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭Postgrad10


    If you read the link byJustMary at the start of this thread you'll see how last years process was timeframe wise . Also have you got your information booklet saved that was with the original application form online ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    JustMary wrote: »

    Not true in all departments.

    The one I was in used TCOs to cover staff on term time leave, and some were related to a senior manager (I recognised them from the interviews).

    I didn't say it was true in all departments and I'm sure in some areas it still happens, however, it is most certainly not the 'done thing' anymore yet people continually spout that the only way to get into the PS is to be related to someone.

    An Ri Rua, yes that was clearly a crap situation but it is hardly indicative of the PS as a whole. Also, have you proof that all those who were appointed were related to someone in the PS? You said that all positions went to current temp workers, how is that related to the nepotism element that's being discussed?


  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭culsoh


    Is there any way to know if there much vacancies in each County??

    For interest sakes, where did everyone apply for?
    I applied for Louth


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    Sorry, that's not true I'm afraid. I applied for clerical officer positions in Offaly County Council less than 5 years ago. I sat a Public Appointments Commission examination along with 350+ others and I came in the top 20.

    Having been TESTED in the clerical skills required, I then was called to an interview with Offaly County Council. It turned out to be a 'preliminary' interview. After 20 minutes, it turns out I was unsuitable skillwise, which I found out after I received the letter etc.

    Under FOI, I requested my interview notes. They took a while to arrive. When they did, the notes 'noted' that I had worked in Cork and worked for Eircom, neither of which was true and neither of which I could have possibly said. 3 of the 20 minutes of the interview were spent discussing a set-top box that one of the interviewers had, which was introduced into Ireland by a company I worked for and which I was lead salesperson.

    I wrote to the Director of Services and his HEO below him to complain. Not just for myself (I was dead in the water the minute I complained) but for the 350 people who had boots wiped on them. I had scored 70% in their education rating despite having an MSc in business management. For a clerical role!! I enquired what was 100% rated at? PhD? For a clerical role? Strange scale indeed.
    I had scored 55% in clerical skills, despite having not been tested in those during interview and having been tested in them at PAC test and scoring 19th out of 350+ people ??

    All of the staff who were appointed were already county council temps. NONE of the Urban District Council staff who sat the exam were appointed. There was blue murder going on down there over this.

    I emailed back and forward and, getting no joy, contacted the County Manager, a supposed straight-shooter. New into the role, he may not have wantd to win this battle and lose others but, at any rate, despite numerous pleas to logic and reason, my query went nowhere.

    I have the documentation and I have the emails to HEO, Director of Services and County Manager (to PAC also) to prove that the process was far from clean and that my application and that of almost 350 other people was a waste of time in that instance.

    Both of the people interviewing for that preliminary interview had coached the Offaly County Council staff prior to interviews.

    Make of all of that what you will. I now work for another semi-state, where I DID get in on my own merit.

    The PAC are involved in the interview process of other groups not simply to streamline and it and to make it objective, but purely to keep themselves busy and in a job. There was no investigation process into the hard evidence that I forwarded.

    I should point out that I had undergone civil service interview training with a woman called Mary near Timahoe, Portlaoise who specialises (successfully) in getting people over the line. I was ready for (and answered) all of the anally retentive knockout questions such as 'how many councillors are there?' instead of 'what is the function and remit of county councillors?'.

    Is there corruption at county council level, despite the involvement of the Public Appointments Commission? YES. I have a full file that I have kept and if the county manager should dare re-enter controversy or dare I say politics again, I will present this little controversy to a journalist as a lesson in not to f8ck with certain ideological and honest people.

    wow...i had a similar scenario with offaly coco where i wasnt even called for interview despite working as a clerical officer temporary for a government department at the time of application. I got the usual PFO letter and queried in writing the criteria used to shortlist with the Senior Executive Officer and got nowhere either only the standard garbage high standard of applicants etc.....just goes to show open and transparent...huh...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭Postgrad10


    I applied to Louth too Culsoh . So you are my competition :)
    Those of you who applied last year , did you all texts to tell you to check your messages ? One person mentioned getting a text in last years thread .


  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭culsoh


    Postgrad10 wrote: »
    I applied to Louth too Culsoh . So you are my competition :)
    Those of you who applied last year , did you all texts to tell you to check your messages ? One person mentioned getting a text in last years thread .

    Well it was a case of Cavan, Monaghan or Louth and I chose Louth as I heard there wasn't many vacancies in Cavan or Monaghan... Lets hope there are loads in Louth!!! :P

    I am not holding out much hope anyway... I kinda breezed through the questionaire, not paying a whole pile of attention to the questions.. and from reading this years and last years threads... I should of!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭Postgrad10


    Same as ! Was thinking there might be more of a chance of a vacancy in Louth than the other counties . Here's hoping !
    I really don't know how that questionnaire is marked but we've as a good a chance as anyone . Will keep posting if I've any news . The deadline was a week earlier this year so we might hear back sooner than last years dates . Good luck !


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  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭culsoh


    Best of luck!!

    Anyone else apply for Louth?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭Postgrad10


    culsoh wrote: »
    Best of luck!!

    Anyone else apply for Louth?

    If it's just us Culsoh , then all the better :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 22 Red_Star


    I applied for Cork .... I'm guessing Dublin and Cork will be the most applied for areas :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 705 ✭✭✭keepkeyyellow


    Red_Star wrote: »
    I applied for Cork .... I'm guessing Dublin and Cork will be the most applied for areas :(

    But then you have to remember that cork has revenue, county hall, city hall, the department of agriculture and a good few social welfare offices! There's hope


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Chinafoot wrote: »
    I didn't say it was true in all departments and I'm sure in some areas it still happens, however, it is most certainly not the 'done thing' anymore yet people continually spout that the only way to get into the PS is to be related to someone.

    An Ri Rua, yes that was clearly a crap situation but it is hardly indicative of the PS as a whole. Also, have you proof that all those who were appointed were related to someone in the PS? You said that all positions went to current temp workers, how is that related to the nepotism element that's being discussed?

    Sorry, yes, I admit that, no, these may not have been nepotism per se but more likely your plain old-fashioned PULL. Then again, many may have been related. I have no proof. What I do have written proof of (not anecdotal, as you infer) is the Public Appointments Commission were not in ANY way interested in investigating what had occurred in a recruitment process for which you might feel they were overseeing and therefore had moral authority AND culpability. Not so at all. They are simply a shared service function that is hired out to the semi-state or government department for the start of the recruitment process. Thwey are simply grabbing pieces of others' recruitment processes to keep themselves busy. What they were at for their first few years is anyone's guess !!! As far as I could gather, there was NO complaints procedure for serious anomalies uncovered between their metrics handed off to local Co Co and how the Co Co then chose to 'score' individuals. The proof that I have is quantitative and, seeing as the PAC refused or were unable to follow through on my serious complaints, the damning evidence is that institutionalised corruption is present and not addressed through fail-safes and whistleblower procedures. That TAINTS the work of the Public Appointments Commission. Shame on them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    wow...i had a similar scenario with offaly coco where i wasnt even called for interview despite working as a clerical officer temporary for a government department at the time of application. I got the usual PFO letter and queried in writing the criteria used to shortlist with the Senior Executive Officer and got nowhere either only the standard garbage high standard of applicants etc.....just goes to show open and transparent...huh...

    Depending on when you applied, the SEO in charge of HR had NO qualifications in HR and had previously been SEO over IT, with no qualifications in that area either. And completely unable to explain the education weighting scale to me at all. Not even a clever attempt at covering up BS. In fact, I had more certified qualifications in HR & IT than the most senior people involved......

    Obviously individuals cannot be named but let she who has eyes see.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    Then What I do have written proof of (not anecdotal, as you infer) .....

    I inferred nothing. My initial comment was in relation to claims made that the only way people will get these TCO positions is by knowing or being related to someone currently employed in the PS. You admit yourself that you have no proof that those given positions in your example did so due to connections.

    I don't feel the need to comment on your example as a whole because I know nothing about that and it bears no relation to what I posted.

    I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Graciefacey


    The waft of sour grapes is overwhelming! If you didn't get the job its because of your attitude


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Chinafoot wrote: »
    I inferred nothing. My initial comment was in relation to claims made that the only way people will get these TCO positions is by knowing or being related to someone currently employed in the PS. You admit yourself that you have no proof that those given positions in your example did so due to connections.

    I don't feel the need to comment on your example as a whole because I know nothing about that and it bears no relation to what I posted.

    I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth.

    I thank you for your thanks ;-)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    The waft of sour grapes is overwhelming! If you didn't get the job its because of your attitude

    Statement one is possible but statement 2? I wouldn't think that's correct. In the case of many candidates and, should you be referring to my posts, in the case of mine. Its BECAUSE of my ideal worker attitude that I was hired by a semi-state. Its BECAUSE of my skills that I came 19th out of 350 candidates. Its BECAUSE of corrupt local council employees that my pleasant 20 minutwe interview resulted in them having a work history for me which wasn't possible.

    Yes, its being tightened up on. Is it rife in county councils though? YES it is.


This discussion has been closed.
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