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My "Yes" vote was not a vote in support of gay people

  • 23-05-2015 11:32am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭


    ...because "support" implies that you occupy a position that I don't. It implies that you are different, that you are fighting a battle on your own. It implies that I hope you succeed, but whether you succeed will have no effect on me.

    I'm straight, but that doesn't mean you and I occupy different worlds. Every individual is different, there is no solid boundary between gay and straight, it's just another one of the differences that makes every individual unique.

    And don't "thank" me for my vote. "Thanks" implies a debt has been created. That I have done something good for you that I didn't have to do.

    In reality the debt already existed. And it is a debt owed by the state. For treating gay people as inferior, for telling gay people that they were less than human, mentally ill, subversive. That their relationships were meaningless and without value. That they were incapable of raising children, of being in positions of trust, or of controlling their passions.

    My vote was a vote for apology. To finally lift the state-sponsored idea that being gay is in any way remarkable, never mind requiring special legal segregation.

    Nobody has ever defined me by my sexuality, or made a judgement on my value as a human being because I'm straight, or used my sexual preferences as a reason to deny me access to work, finances or even just a pub. I've never had to hide who I am, to check that someone might be "OK" with me before talking to them, or to apologise for who I am.
    And I hope from today forward all people of this country get to experience the same level of unremarkability that I do.

    Apologies cannot undo decades, centuries of oppression. We all understand why things were the way they were, but that doesn't excuse it. But without the ability to go back in time and undo what's been done, all I can offer is an apology and the dismantling of state-backed oppression of homosexuality.

    On behalf of our country, I'm sorry. I have always been sorry, but today at last I hope that regret has been proven by our country.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    I agree about the unremarkability. I want to say thanks nonetheless. People had it in their gift to continue the oppression or end it and whatever the individual reasons for their YES I am grateful that the world I grew up in can never now officially cripple and condemn us. The people who need to apologize to me are mostly dead and gone. And I am grateful to you for pointing out how much people's experience of us as ordinary has brought this day about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    I won't thank you for your vote but I will thank your for this Post.

    I hope someday all minorities will be unremarkable enough to remove special mention as protected groups. It was clearly necessary in the past and still needed in the present but I do feel more comfortable heading into a world of increasingly unremarkable people. People like me.:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    seamus wrote: »
    ...because "support" implies that you occupy a position that I don't. It implies that you are different, that you are fighting a battle on your own. It implies that I hope you succeed, but whether you succeed will have no effect on me.

    I'm straight, but that doesn't mean you and I occupy different worlds. Every individual is different, there is no solid boundary between gay and straight, it's just another one of the differences that makes every individual unique.

    And don't "thank" me for my vote. "Thanks" implies a debt has been created. That I have done something good for you that I didn't have to do.

    In reality the debt already existed. And it is a debt owed by the state. For treating gay people as inferior, for telling gay people that they were less than human, mentally ill, subversive. That their relationships were meaningless and without value. That they were incapable of raising children, of being in positions of trust, or of controlling their passions.

    My vote was a vote for apology. To finally lift the state-sponsored idea that being gay is in any way remarkable, never mind requiring special legal segregation.

    Nobody has ever defined me by my sexuality, or made a judgement on my value as a human being because I'm straight, or used my sexual preferences as a reason to deny me access to work, finances or even just a pub. I've never had to hide who I am, to check that someone might be "OK" with me before talking to them, or to apologise for who I am.
    And I hope from today forward all people of this country get to experience the same level of unremarkability that I do.

    Apologies cannot undo decades, centuries of oppression. We all understand why things were the way they were, but that doesn't excuse it. But without the ability to go back in time and undo what's been done, all I can offer is an apology and the dismantling of state-backed oppression of homosexuality.

    On behalf of our country, I'm sorry. I have always been sorry, but today at last I hope that regret has been proven by our country.

    Well said Seamus. I have similar feelings on the debt owed by society to the gay community. I am surprised at how little anger was forthcoming during the campaign. I expected a lot more. I join you in offering a long overdue apology.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ThinkProgress


    I had lots of motives for voting yes. (at one point I mistakenly thought I might have a few for voting NO as well - thankfully my eyes were opened in that regard)

    We can all complicate things, or we can choose to make things very simple in our minds...

    If I'm being 100% honest as a straight guy, I don't think I'm as comfortable with people in the LGBT community as I would like to be.

    I'm not homophobic, but I'm also not completely at ease around gay people. This is not the fault of any LGBT person - it's completely my fault and the fault of our society!

    I see this vote as progress towards the day when myself (and many others like me), can see past cliches or preconceived notions sexuality etc.

    I'm not quite there yet, but I want to be. Right now, when I see a gay couple on the street... the first thing I see is their sexuality. I wish that wasn't the case, but right now that's where I am mentally.

    I don't think I treat people any different - I certainly try not to. But I just wish it didn't register in my mind at all... I want it to be irrelevant in my mind.

    I think that will happen one day. And this is a big step towards that day!

    Thankfully, despite my flaws, I could see why voting yes was the correct choice to make.

    Many on the NO side are guilty of complicating this issue and muddying the waters. They've dragged people into believing their exaggerated claims... many of whom are not prejudiced.

    I think the number of truely homophobic people in this country is a very very small minority. Which has to give everyone hope for the future.

    This is a good country, where the majority understand what's right and wrong. But we still have a long road ahead before we get to a place where we don't see a person's sexuality as a defining aspect of their character.

    Maybe some won't admit to that - but I have no problem admitting to it! :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    I'll apologise when you tell me what I did wrong :confused:


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I didn't vote for gay/bisexual people, it was for all people. It is about the country and society we want to live in, the values we hold. I voted for me.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    I think I just got a little sick.

    Edit: I voted yes by the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I didn't vote for gay/bisexual people, it was for all people. It is about the country and society we want to live in, the values we hold. I voted for me.

    This. ^^

    I don't mean Seamus is wrong to feel ashamed that it was ever different, of course he's right.

    But there's so much to apologize for, and so many people to apologize to, as well as the gay community (single mothers, their children, women mutiliated in childbirth, men and women worn into the ground by being prevented from limiting their families to the number of children they could afford to bring up etc etc etc) that it seems to me the healthiest way to look at is, this is a sign that Iona and their ilk have lost control of our minds.

    At long last, the Noble Call has been heard. We really are a risen people. It's not about the past, it's about what sort of a future we want.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    What's the difference between civil partnership and marriage? Some people need to settle down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    noway12345 wrote: »
    What's the difference between civil partnership and marriage? Some people need to settle down.

    The voice of reason.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,393 ✭✭✭danjo-xx


    noway12345 wrote: »
    What's the difference between civil partnership and marriage? Some people need to settle down.

    The main difference is that civil partnership could be revoked by any government of the day if it so chose. Where as Civil Marriage will now be in the constitution and can only be changed by the people.


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Well said Seamus.


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    noway12345 wrote: »
    What's the difference between civil partnership and marriage? Some people need to settle down.

    Only about 160 differences, but who's counting eh?

    Would you like it if your colleague, who does exactly the same job as you, for the same length of time, had 160 differences in their contract to you that gave them a bigger salary, greater job security, loads more perks, better promotional prospects, a nicer office, a cooler computer, and where for some obscure reason, they were favoured ahead of you every single step? But you've still got a job like he has, so what are you moaning about?

    Marriage - civil marriage that is, is just a legal process that permits two people who are not blood relations to become kin to each other. To become a member of each other's family.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Neyite wrote: »
    Only about 160 differences, but who's counting eh?

    Would you like it if your colleague, who does exactly the same job as you, for the same length of time, had 160 differences in their contract to you that gave them a bigger salary, greater job security, loads more perks, better promotional prospects, a nicer office, a cooler computer, and where for some obscure reason, they were favoured ahead of you every single step? But you've still got a job like he has, so what are you moaning about?

    Marriage - civil marriage that is, is just a legal process that permits two people who are not blood relations to become kin to each other. To become a member of each other's family.

    Ohhhhhhh this yes vote gives gay people more money and a nicer office. That should have been put on the posters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I've been doing a bit of canvassing over the weeks and in my head and heart I was doing it for my gay daughter and others like her. I want her and her peers to live in a country where they are equal. That's been the driving force in this for me. Or so I believed until today.

    Someone in Gov said this wasn't just a referendum but a social revolution and I totally identify with that. I am not gay so on the face of it this will have zero impact for me but already feel more free than I did yesterday. I feel like we as a country have cast off some of the shackles of holy Catholic Ireland and we all benefit from that, young and old, gay or straight. I didn't really realise what impact this would have for me and MY straight life before now but I think this is a watershed for us all.

    On a very personal level my daughter now feels totally equal. Its like a cloud has lifted which means more to me than I can say so thank you so so much to everyone who voted especially those who took the time and money to travel home. What an amazing thing to do!!

    As I write this I'm looking at my son who at 5 is wondering why his mammy is crying and is totally unaware of all this. And that's great because he will grow up in a country where he doesn't carry the millstone of Catholic guilt around his neck. He will take SSM for granted as something totally normal and how great is it to be FINALLY able to say that!!!

    I have collected a lot of Vote Yes/No stuff over the weeks and was going to bin them but have decided to hang on to them for him so he can see just how hard this was fought and what people used to say about our gay community and remember Never Again.

    On a final note from this rambling and somewhat drunk post I saw a graphic online of countries that allow same sex marriage and the pride and emotion I felt seeing Ireland coloured in with the Uk, Canada etc was just amazing...we are a fantastic little country with the greatest people in the world. xx


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Ohhhhhhh this yes vote gives gay people more money and a nicer office. That should have been put on the posters.
    No. Just giving them the same as everybody else.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Neyite wrote: »
    No. Just giving them the same as everybody else.

    They really weren't far behind what everyone else had. I'm glad there was such a big yes vote but let's get real here. This wasn't such a big deal. People are getting a bit carried away. They're acting like it's similar to ending apartheid in South Africa or black people not being forced into slavery. Come on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    noway12345 wrote: »
    They really weren't far behind what everyone else had. I'm glad there was such a big yes vote but let's get real here. This wasn't such a big deal. People are getting a bit carried away. They're acting like it's similar to ending apartheid in South Africa or black people not being forced into slavery. Come on.

    Say that to my friend who is a 48 yr old gay man and still afraid to come out to him mother or my daughter who still doesn't have the confidence to hold her girlfriends hand in public or my late father who married a woman because the alternative was just too horrific to contemplate. Its no big deal to you or I and how lucky are we that we can say that. Try putting yourself in the place of a gay person, this is huge for them. They have every right to get carried away and celebrate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Into The Blue


    8h ago13:46


    Australian marriage equality campaigners are vowing to step up their efforts following the Irish result. Rodney Croome, convener of Australian Marriage Equality, said: “If there was ever any doubt that marriage equality was inevitable in Australia, the Irish vote has removed it. The questions is not if, but when.”
    He predicted Australians will feel deeply embarrassed to have fallen behind the traditionally conservative Catholic country. “Australia’s political leaders have no more excuses for dragging the chain.”
    I told my mother in law i voted yes just to cancel her no vote :D

    Cünt hates me anyway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    noway12345 wrote: »
    They really weren't far behind what everyone else had. I'm glad there was such a big yes vote but let's get real here. This wasn't such a big deal. People are getting a bit carried away. They're acting like it's similar to ending apartheid in South Africa or black people not being forced into slavery. Come on.

    You are cluless a bout everything.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    noway12345 wrote: »
    What's the difference between civil partnership and marriage? Some people need to settle down.

    400,000 Irish voters

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭guitarzero


    I dont get why your apologizing for other peoples behaviour. Doesnt add up. If other ppl were homophobic then let them come to their own remorse. Its not noble apologizing for others behaviours.


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