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Zero Grazing

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2

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    #32
    tismesoitis
    Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭tismesoitis


    plenty of grass but the utilisation would be crap if we let them out ground would poach to bits!!!


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    #33
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Two lads near me zero grazing and regrowth is very good , much better than grazed ground, plenty of slurry and fert applied early on the ground


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    #34
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,727 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Zero grazing was featured on RTE's countrywide program this morning.

    I think with quotas going and with land fragmentation, this will become more popular.
    They are expensive though, they said on the program this morning that entry level is at €18k and goes upto €65k for the top of the range model.
    The guy on the program claimed one farmer increased milk output per day by 750 litres a day and it made him €233 per day extra after the expense of diesel.


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    #35
    bob charles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Zero grazing was featured on RTE's countrywide program this morning.

    I think with quotas going and with land fragmentation, this will become more popular.
    They are expensive though, they said on the program this morning that entry level is at €18k and goes upto €65k for the top of the range model.
    The guy on the program claimed one farmer increased milk output per day by 750 litres a day and it made him €233 per day extra after the expense of diesel.

    over how many cows and I wonder was this the only change. cost allot to zero graze an acre of grass in front of a cow/beef, also include the cost of the slurry you have to spread after her.


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    #36
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    Did it for all the 90's and still have the tee shirt.

    I would get out if cows or put them in full time in bought feed before I'd do it again.


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    #37
    Mulumpy
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭Mulumpy


    Lad in our group has a zero grazer. Most of his land a mile away and was sick of walking the cows on the road. He draws them grass to feed after milking in the shed then lets out to rationed grass around the parlour. Says tis labour some but that anything is better than what he was at.


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    #38
    TEAT SQUEEZER
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭TEAT SQUEEZER


    there must be some good figures on here about a zero grazing system..(you know who and yer man:D step forward pls) is it too simple a view that its gotta be the next cheapest option to grazing outright?... i`m thinking used as a buffer to grazing cattle/cows and not as an total indoor system etc........


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    #39
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    A 2nd parlour in the outfarm would sound like an easier option in my view, the extra capital cost of the parlour should balance out with the extra running cost of the zg, but without the extra time spent at the zg every day.


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    #40
    TEAT SQUEEZER
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭TEAT SQUEEZER


    Timmaay wrote: »
    A 2nd parlour in the outfarm would sound like an easier option in my view, the extra capital cost of the parlour should balance out with the extra running cost of the zg, but without the extra time spent at the zg every day.
    whatever happened to just leaning back in the seat and enjoying the ride, smiling and waving at the girls as you go on your merry way...:D

    there must be someone who zero grazes on here or who has costed and rejected the idea .. their opinions would be of greatvalue imo


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    #41
    loveta
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭loveta


    delaval wrote: »
    Did it for all the 90's and still have the tee shirt.

    I would get out if cows or put them in full time in bought feed before I'd do it again.

    Why so anti them delaval??
    Or why would you rather cows in on bought feeds than cheap grass??


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    #42
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    loveta wrote: »
    Why so anti them delaval??
    Or why would you rather cows in on bought feeds than cheap grass??

    A good idea but back then it was a mower and forage wagon. Wagons weren't as far on as today and certainly didn't carry enough. In real amount of driving to be done.
    Milk, go for grass, breakfast, take out slurry,fert, milk, sleep it was relentless . It just ate time. I recon round baling and feeding back out would be a better option and higher DM grub. Parlour on other block is the answer if block was big enough.


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    #43
    bob charles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    delaval wrote: »
    A good idea but back then it was a mower and forage wagon. Wagons weren't as far on as today and certainly didn't carry enough. In real amount of driving to be done.
    Milk, go for grass, breakfast, take out slurry,fert, milk, sleep it was relentless . It just ate time. I recon round baling and feeding back out would be a better option and higher DM grub. Parlour on other block is the answer if block was big enough.

    there is a dark past to you lad :D has it taking much counseling to get over it?


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    #44
    grazeaway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭grazeaway


    delaval wrote: »
    A good idea but back then it was a mower and forage wagon. Wagons weren't as far on as today and certainly didn't carry enough. In real amount of driving to be done.
    Milk, go for grass, breakfast, take out slurry,fert, milk, sleep it was relentless . It just ate time. I recon round baling and feeding back out would be a better option and higher DM grub. Parlour on other block is the answer if block was big enough.

    Did you have to mow 1st then pick in up in a silage wagon? If so would a tractor with a front linkage and front mounted mower been a better option.


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    #45
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    delaval wrote: »
    A good idea but back then it was a mower and forage wagon. Wagons weren't as far on as today and certainly didn't carry enough. In real amount of driving to be done.
    Milk, go for grass, breakfast, take out slurry,fert, milk, sleep it was relentless . It just ate time. I recon round baling and feeding back out would be a better option and higher DM grub. Parlour on other block is the answer if block was big enough.

    would the bales not start to heat if they werent used up quick enough. I think there would be more work in that method as you have to mow bale draw and feed out the bales. The idea of zero grazing is to not damage the grass is it not?


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    #46
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    jersey101 wrote: »
    would the bales not start to heat if they werent used up quick enough. I think there would be more work in that method as you have to mow bale draw and feed out the bales. The idea of zero grazing is to not damage the grass is it not?
    Wrap them and feed as silage


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    #47
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    grazeaway wrote: »
    Did you have to mow 1st then pick in up in a silage wagon? If so would a tractor with a front linkage and front mounted mower been a better option.
    I hadn't the price of the diesel at the time and was lucky to have a front loader:):)


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    #48
    jersey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭jersey101


    delaval wrote: »
    Wrap them and feed as silage

    ah i get what ye mean now. If ye can wrap good grass can be as good as meal


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    #49
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    bob charles wrote: »
    there is a dark past to you lad :D has it taking much counseling to get over it?
    Are you only noticing that now:P:P


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    #50
    grazeaway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭grazeaway


    delaval wrote: »
    Wrap them and feed as silage

    The in laws do this on the continent but they have a bale feeder, they load in a couple of bales at a time, the machine runs on a timer and feeds along the passage at regular time.

    I know a lad that used zero grazing last summer cos of the weather. He used an old silage harvester and filled the trailer every day and dropped silage in front of the feed barrier and pushed it in with the loader. He did it again this spring. Doesn't reckon it would suit him long term to do full zero grazing but will defo pull out his silage harvester and trailer again when the weather gets sh*t again.


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    #51
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    In terms of zg in bad weather, on my land anyways I'd certainly take my chances with on/off stripgrazing than zg it, heavy machinery is still going to do alot of damage surely?, esp on fields with shallow clay drains.


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    #52
    freedominacup
    Registered Users Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    jersey101 wrote: »
    The idea of zero grazing is to not damage the grass is it not?

    Nope the idea of zero grazing is to seperate the poor fool who gets invoved in it from as much of his money as possible, but they're real bastards about it they won't actually break you, they'll leave you just enough to keep going. Zero grazing ain't new lads, those zero grazers are just a reinvention of the wheel.

    There was a farm from somewhere in the north featured on the comic a few months back which was zero grazing full time. They had a certain model of zero grazer ( the name escapes me). A guy I was friendly with worked for the inventor/developer of that particular machine back in the day. They were all over the NW of england then but they said on the comic that the machine is no longer in production, that the one on that farm in northern ireland was one of the last working. What does that tell you? from development to production to the last being in use in less than 20 years. For my money zero grazing is at best a very marginal operation.


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    #53
    loveta
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭loveta


    Horses for courses i suppose alot of accurate points made in previous posts but i feel they have there place and would not like to be without esp in the shoulders of the year or bad weather.I have more land out lying than i actually have on the main block and the largest parcel is only 25ac so in these cases its brillant at getting the green stuff into them,


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    #54
    st1979
    Registered Users Posts: 936 ✭✭✭st1979


    loveta wrote: »
    Horses for courses i suppose alot of accurate points made in previous posts but i feel they have there place and would not like to be without esp in the shoulders of the year or bad weather.I have more land out lying than i actually have on the main block and the largest parcel is only 25ac so in these cases its brillant at getting the green stuff into them,

    Have to agree. I have 60% in one block that we own. And the rented land which is reasonable rent and been all 10yrs plus rented is between 1 and 3 miles away. Currently use rented land for silage and a bit of tillage. Have own large wagon and front mower. If I expand cow numbers to the max I can see a lot of benefits in using the rented land on shoulders or crap weather. With very small extra cost. Have enough cubicles slurry storage and machinery so surely it would be a benefit.
    I used to rent land that I could graze but it ended up cows walked 2km from furthest point to parlour each way. And I can tell you that was not labour free and cows hooves gave a lot of trouble.

    Think we need to have an open mind on these things. Not many farms will be able to graze large cow numbers relative to there acreage. I would not want to zg every day but it might be a useful tool to have. And I reckon most who actually zg dont have a 30k machine. I see lads using old single or double chops.


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    #55
    yellow50HX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭yellow50HX


    st1979 wrote: »
    Have to agree. I have 60% in one block that we own. And the rented land which is reasonable rent and been all 10yrs plus rented is between 1 and 3 miles away. Currently use rented land for silage and a bit of tillage. Have own large wagon and front mower. If I expand cow numbers to the max I can see a lot of benefits in using the rented land on shoulders or crap weather. With very small extra cost. Have enough cubicles slurry storage and machinery so surely it would be a benefit.
    I used to rent land that I could graze but it ended up cows walked 2km from furthest point to parlour each way. And I can tell you that was not labour free and cows hooves gave a lot of trouble.

    Think we need to have an open mind on these things. Not many farms will be able to graze large cow numbers relative to there acreage. I would not want to zg every day but it might be a useful tool to have. And I reckon most who actually zg dont have a 30k machine. I see lads using old single or double chops.

    Think your spot on there. I don't think 100% ZG is practical in Ireland but it defo has a place for lads that want to expand number higher then the home place can take. Like you say it's a lot easier to drive a tractor and machine a mile of 2 up the road once a day then walk 150 cows over and back twice a day. If your looking to rent a place a mile away over 5 years and it doesn't have roadways or water or esb then not only do you have the issues of walking cows a long distance but you draw in water, set up drinking trough put in solar fencing and put up wires. Other wise it only be useful for silage and rearing calves and dry animals.


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    #56
    st1979
    Registered Users Posts: 936 ✭✭✭st1979


    yellow50HX wrote: »
    Think your spot on there. I don't think 100% ZG is practical in Ireland but it defo has a place for lads that want to expand number higher then the home place can take. Like you say it's a lot easier to drive a tractor and machine a mile of 2 up the road once a day then walk 150 cows over and back twice a day. If your looking to rent a place a mile away over 5 years and it doesn't have roadways or water or esb then not only do you have the issues of walking cows a long distance but you draw in water, set up drinking trough put in solar fencing and put up wires. Other wise it only be useful for silage and rearing calves and dry animals.

    When the cows were coming from 2km away they done everything possible to stay in the field unless they were being fed in parlour. Used to take 1 hr to get in 30 mins to put out so 3 hrs a day messing around


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    #57
    freedominacup
    Registered Users Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    st1979 wrote: »
    When the cows were coming from 2km away they done everything possible to stay in the field unless they were being fed in parlour. Used to take 1 hr to get in 30 mins to put out so 3 hrs a day messing around

    The debate seems to be about ZG against walking cows long distances often on public roads, how does it stack up when measured against other cropping? Delaval posted recently that he reckons he is heading for 12tDM/ha of grass utilised which is definitely impressive but it equates in DM yield to a reasonable crop of wholecrop wheat. If you were achieveing de's utilisation on ZG how does it stack up against wholecrop/maize/beet?

    Cows can easily get through a 10kg/DM buffer in an hour before/after milking morning and evening assuming around 3-4kg/DM from concentrates in mix. Once you get above 10kgs of buffer DM it starts to make more sense for them to be housed at night esp in poor weather.


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    #58
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    freedominacup wrote: »
    The debate seems to be about ZG against walking cows long distances often on public roads, how does it stack up when measured against other cropping? Delaval posted recently that he reckons he is heading for 12tDM/ha of grass utilised which is definitely impressive but it equates in DM yield to a reasonable crop of wholecrop wheat. If you were achieveing de's utilisation on ZG how does it stack up against wholecrop/maize/beet?

    Cows can easily get through a 10kg/DM buffer in an hour before/after milking morning and evening assuming around 3-4kg/DM from concentrates in mix. Once you get above 10kgs of buffer DM it starts to make more sense for them to be housed at night esp in poor weather.
    I have a friend in Holland who is total ZG for the summer. The best he can do is 15 tonne DM/ha


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    #59
    bob charles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    delaval wrote: »
    I have a friend in Holland who is total ZG for the summer. The best he can do is 15 tonne DM/ha

    that pretty poor isnt it. Have you any idea of what are the dutch figures for grass growth in a season. Considering land is costing over 20k in holland this has a major bearing. I presume a utilisation figure is up around 100% and a clean cut would grow an extra 25% more grass. So take delaval's figure of 12t ha utilised grass @ 90% utilisation (I wont say yeah or nah about that figure) and will call it the Irish figure

    so 12 / 0.9 = 13.5~ total grass grow in Ireland

    Extra growth using zero grazing 25% so

    13.5t/ha * 125% = 16.875t/ha (total zero grazed tons)

    16.875/12 = 1.40 or a zero grazer will be getting 40% more grass per ha into their cows.

    is the 25% extra grass growing in a season a fair figure for Irish conditions?



    Come on lads its a Sunday afternoon we have to prove that zero grazing full time is the way forward:)


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    #60
    bob charles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    freedominacup wrote: »
    The debate seems to be about ZG against walking cows long distances often on public roads, how does it stack up when measured against other cropping? Delaval posted recently that he reckons he is heading for 12tDM/ha of grass utilised which is definitely impressive but it equates in DM yield to a reasonable crop of wholecrop wheat. If you were achieveing de's utilisation on ZG how does it stack up against wholecrop/maize/beet?

    Energy grown per acre is the important figure and not Tons per acre


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    #61
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    bob charles wrote: »
    Energy grown per acre is the important figure and not Tons per acre
    I must grow a few hundred acres of sugar beet next year. I'd say my covers ill be low in May and June:):)


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