M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

glineli · 31-01-2014 4:11pm

spacetweek wrote: »

It's already designed, it's starting in a few weeks.

We hope, if only someone can find a pen and sign the bloody contract!!!

tonc76 · 31-01-2014 5:30pm

spacetweek wrote: »

It's already designed, it's starting in a few weeks.

I doubt it is as what consultants would carry out a design when the contract hasn't even been signed yet? They don't make money by working for free!

f2 · 31-01-2014 7:29pm

Its a design and build project I know, but there is a designed road, I can only assume the contractors will tweak the design to suit themselves. The project has been costed < would have to know this to put a tender in>, for some useless information I seen a designed road back in 2001, it was with a council engineer who was walking the route back then

annfield1978 · 31-01-2014 11:09pm

spacetweek wrote: »

It's already designed, it's starting in a few weeks.

You have no idea...

spacetweek · 03-02-2014 2:02pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

You have no idea...

Fairly easy to know - if the Gov are saying it's starting in early 2014 then there can't possibly be that much work required to get it shovel-ready.

annfield1978 · 03-02-2014 10:50pm

No detailed design has been done, and designers have not been formally appointed yet

glineli · 05-02-2014 3:43pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

No detailed design has been done, and designers have not been formally appointed yet

I am surprised by that as all teh commentry from public representatives and senior employees at Galway and Calre County Councils had indicated that the constrauction would begin in Q1 2014.

How can they tendor and give a price unless the design is finalized?

D Trent · 05-02-2014 4:26pm

glineli wrote: »

I am surprised by that as all teh commentry from public representatives and senior employees at Galway and Calre County Councils had indicated that the constrauction would begin in Q1 2014.

How can they tendor and give a price unless the design is finalized?

Clare coco have nothing to do with gort-tuam motorway

D Trent · 05-02-2014 4:30pm

glineli wrote: »

I am surprised by that as all teh commentry from public representatives and senior employees at Galway and Calre County Councils had indicated that the constrauction would begin in Q1 2014.

How can they tendor and give a price unless the design is finalized?

Clare coco have nothing to do with the motorway stretch gort to tuam

glineli · 05-02-2014 6:06pm

D Trent wrote: »

Clare coco have nothing to do with the motorway stretch gort to tuam

That is correct but as mentioned in this thread, a senior offical from Clare Co Co recently commented on the scheme

wtd2008 · 07-02-2014 11:53am

Any idea what the journey time would be from Tuam to Gort? Will hopefully cut my commute in half.

f2 · 07-02-2014 12:26pm

3 weeks left in Feb

antoobrien · 07-02-2014 12:52pm

wtd2008 wrote: »

Any idea what the journey time would be from Tuam to Gort? Will hopefully cut my commute in half.

Assuming 120km/h limits, in/around 30 minutes.

mydiscworld · 07-02-2014 2:59pm

Where will the new road meet up with the M6 motorway to Galway city? Somewhere near Athenry?

Gort to Galway (Coolagh Roundabout) is 31km on the old road from where the motorway currently ends.

With the new road, how far from Galway will it be? Looks further than the 31km but at 120kph, far quicker

Zubeneschamali · 07-02-2014 3:15pm

mydiscworld wrote: »

Where will the new road meet up with the M6 motorway to Galway city?

In Google maps, here. You can see the wider stretch of tarmac for the off-ramps.

antoobrien · 07-02-2014 5:11pm

mydiscworld wrote: »

Gort to Galway (Coolagh Roundabout) is 31km on the old road from where the motorway currently ends.

With the new road, how far from Galway will it be? Looks further than the 31km but at 120kph, far quicker

Gort - Rathmorrissy will be approx 28km. This junction will be about 12km from the Coolagh roundabout. Overall it'll be 9km longer, but it cuts out spots like Kilcolgan (junction to Kinvara & the northern end of the Burren), Clarinbridge & the approach to Oranmore where traffic can slow dramatically.

Ascii · 11-02-2014 1:06pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

You have no idea...

Lets try and clear this up for once.

Council/NRA appoint a team of Engineers to carry out a Prelim Design. This specifies bridge sizes, locations of stream crossing, approximate road levels etc etc etc. This is included in the tender documents. When main contractor is pricing the D+B scheme he appoints his own team of design engineers (ARUP, Jacobs, Tobins, Halcrow Barry etc) to do specimen design. What they do here is they take the prelim design and advance it further. They might deside to use longer spans in the bridges, use less columns, use round culverts instead of boxes, lower the height of road in low areas to reduce fill volumes etc. The contractor will then price this design that his team of consulting engineers have drawn up. When he is then awarded the job he will take his specimen design and turn it into a detailed design.

This will then be sent to the councils appointed engineers (in the case of the M18 its Jacobs) who will be called the Employers Representative for the Scheme. It is up to them to examine the detailed design and ensure that it meets with Irish and EU standards for road construction. This is called the Design Certification Procedure and commences when the contact is signed and will run for 95% of the project duration.

Say half way through the job the price of steel falls and the contractor decides that it is cheaper to build the bridges from steel as opposed to concrete. He can instruct his designers to do so and submit these designs going forward. Since this will differ from his original specimen design he must submitted a VCDC which is a Variant Conceptual Design Cert. This is the Employers Representatives method of approving the change from concrete to steel. Likewise if he find a hill of rock and it is too expensive to remove, he may raise the alignment of the road in this section to reduce costs of blasting etc. Similary if he is short of rock he may lower the level of the road here to gain additional rock. Once the design is within current design standards and is approved by the Employers Representative the contractor is free to do what he wants so to speak.

Any questions

f2 · 11-02-2014 1:10pm

Well said

GalwayMagpie · 11-02-2014 2:50pm

Ascii wrote: »

Lets try and clear this up for once.

Council/NRA appoint a team of Engineers to carry out a Prelim Design. This specifies bridge sizes, locations of stream crossing, approximate road levels etc etc etc. This is included in the tender documents. When main contractor is pricing the D+B scheme he appoints his own team of design engineers (ARUP, Jacobs, Tobins, Halcrow Barry etc) to do specimen design. What they do here is they take the prelim design and advance it further. They might deside to use longer spans in the bridges, use less columns, use round culverts instead of boxes, lower the height of road in low areas to reduce fill volumes etc. The contractor will then price this design that his team of consulting engineers have drawn up. When he is then awarded the job he will take his specimen design and turn it into a detailed design.

This will then be sent to the councils appointed engineers (in the case of the M18 its Jacobs) who will be called the Employers Representative for the Scheme. It is up to them to examine the detailed design and ensure that it meets with Irish and EU standards for road construction. This is called the Design Certification Procedure and commences when the contact is signed and will run for 95% of the project duration.

Say half way through the job the price of steel falls and the contractor decides that it is cheaper to build the bridges from steel as opposed to concrete. He can instruct his designers to do so and submit these designs going forward. Since this will differ from his original specimen design he must submitted a VCDC which is a Variant Conceptual Design Cert. This is the Employers Representatives method of approving the change from concrete to steel. Likewise if he find a hill of rock and it is too expensive to remove, he may raise the alignment of the road in this section to reduce costs of blasting etc. Similary if he is short of rock he may lower the level of the road here to gain additional rock. Once the design is within current design standards and is approved by the Employers Representative the contractor is free to do what he wants so to speak.

Any questions

Excellent post. When the haters show up a nit-pick on a minor point just ignore them.

Where in the process is the M18?
Any news on 'contract day'?

Carawaystick · 11-02-2014 10:41pm

Ascii wrote: »

Lets try and clear this up for once.

...

Any questions

What is the deal with planning permission?
Do modifications to the abp aproval get re-submitted?

I mean if I build a house and the ridge is half a foot higher than on the approved drawings, or a different type of cladding is used, then it's in breach of planning.

antoobrien · 12-02-2014 3:47pm

GalwayMagpie wrote: »

Where in the process is the M18?
Any news on 'contract day'?

Waiting for the contracts to be signed.

There was an article in the City Tribune last weekend (don't know if it was in the Connacht Tribune) indicating that there's a new twist as the three contractors in the consortium want to a third each (possibly reverting to the original plan of three separate projects) rather than a single overall project structure.

There are a few quotes in the article indicating that the only hold up now is the contractors, not the NRA or any other government body (so that lessens the likelihood of the electioneering conspiracy theory being true).

There's also a statement that construction can't start until September due to wildlife legislation restricting when vegetation can be destroyed, but from reading the various acts (1976 & http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0038/print.html#sec46) road building is one of the exceptions to this.

Ascii · 13-02-2014 9:08am

antoobrien wrote: »

Waiting for the contracts to be signed.

There's also a statement that construction can't start until September due to wildlife legislation restricting when vegetation can be destroyed, but from reading the various acts (1976 & http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0038/print.html#sec46) road building is one of the exceptions to this.

STATUTORY RESTRICTIONS ON
VEGETATION CLEARANCE
Section 46(a) of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000 makes it an offence

“for a person to cut, grub, burn or
otherwise destroy, during the period beginning on the
1st day of March and ending on the 31st day of August in
any year, any vegetation growing on any land not then
cultivated.”

However, this requirement is waived for the
purposes of roads construction. Notwithstanding this
waiver, the Contractor should make reasonable efforts to
avoid the felling of trees during the peak felling season from
March to July.

Excuse the font. From the last sentence above it is merely a recommendation that the contractor refrain from tree felling outside of the March-July window. On previous schemes the LA have appointed a contractor themselves to run through and flatten hedge rows and trees outside of bird nesting season. This allows the main contractor to commence earthworks at any stage of the year then.

On another note I would have my doubts about the delay on the contract signing being due to the fact that the members of the Direct Route consortium cannot decide what share of the work each will take. Seems extremely unlikely. To me the paper are filling column inches with crap just to keep the story ticking over. Believe me when I say that if there is that much discomfort in the camp at the moment between the three main partners (Sisk, RB & Lagan) then the job will never be completed successfully on time or on budget.

antoobrien · 13-02-2014 9:35am

Ascii wrote: »

On another note I would have my doubts about the delay on the contract signing being due to the fact that the members of the Direct Route consortium cannot decide what share of the work each will take

That's just one of the reasons stated, the other one (consortium arranging finance) hasn't changed. The playing of sillybuggers with the project management might explain why it's taking so long to get finance for a project that's backed by the now much sought after Irish Govenment bonds (I.e. should be fairly easy right now).

jd · 13-02-2014 10:57am

Ascii wrote: »

[ From the last sentence above it is merely a recommendation that the contractor refrain from tree felling outside of the March-July window.

I think you mean refrain from tree felling between March and July

Ascii · 13-02-2014 11:53am

jd wrote: »

I think you mean refrain from tree felling between March and July

A+ for that student

:D:D. My brain works faster than my fingers can type

Ascii · 13-02-2014 12:31pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

What is the deal with planning permission?
Do modifications to the abp aproval get re-submitted?

I mean if I build a house and the ridge is half a foot higher than on the approved drawings, or a different type of cladding is used, then it's in breach of planning.

From time to time the Local Authority may carry out development within its administrative area, such as the construction of houses, roads, swimming pools, public toilets etc.
Development carried out by a Local Authority is often referred to as a 'Part 8':- this is reference to Part 8 of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001 which sets out the procedure for carrying out such developments.

Public consultation is an intrinsic part of the 'Part 8' process. Comments and observations on Proposed Developments by a Local Authority can only be received in writing between certain dates.
In the case of road a public meeting or Oral Hearing is conducted by ABP. At this hearing members of the LA (engineers, planners etc) state the case why the road is justified taking into account the Local Development Plan/County Development Plan/Spatial Strategies etc.

Any objectors must have submitted their concerns to LA in advance of the Oral Hearing. These are based on the Preliminary Design that we mentioned earlier that the LA have carried out.

It is usually raised at these oral hearings about the contractor appointed to carry out the Design Build contract would be able to change the design of the scheme from the preliminary design set out in the original documents.

One such reply is “…the contractor will only be permitted to vary the design in a manner that does not cause significant change in the environmental impact of the finished road scheme from that which is approved, unless the contactor is prepared to go through a separate approval process...”

Following on from this Oral Hearing ABP usually give their consent\rejection followed by any recommendations they may have.

antoobrien · 13-02-2014 1:05pm

Ascii wrote: »

STATUTORY RESTRICTIONS ON VEGETATION CLEARANCE

Section 46(a) of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000 makes it an offence

“for a person to cut, grub, burn or otherwise destroy, during the period beginning on the 1st day of March and ending on the 31st day of August in any year, any vegetation growing on any land not then cultivated.”

However, this requirement is waived for the purposes of roads construction. Notwithstanding this waiver, the Contractor should make reasonable efforts to avoid the felling of trees during the peak felling season from March to July.

Just to clarify it there are several exceptions stated in the act and the waiver mentioned - see paragraph (e) below - is not limited to roads. So, given the restrictions mentioned in the act & guidelines mentioned, there's no reason for this to hold up site clearance works as there are plenty of open fields on the route.

Here's the full text of the section 40 of the Wildlife Act 1976, as amended by the 2000 act:

40.—(1) (a) It shall be an offence for a person to cut, grub, burn or otherwise destroy, during the period beginning on the 1st day of March and ending on the 31st day of August in any year, any vegetation growing on any land not then cultivated.

(b) It shall be an offence for a person to cut, grub, burn or otherwise destroy any vegetation growing in any hedge or ditch during the period mentioned in paragraph (a) of this subsection.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in relation to—

(a) the destroying, in the ordinary course of agriculture or forestry, of any vegetation growing on or in any hedge or ditch;

(b) the cutting or grubbing of isolated bushes or clumps of gorse, furze or whin or the mowing of isolated growths of fern in the ordinary course of agriculture;

(c) the cutting, grubbing or destroying of vegetation in the course of any works being duly carried out for reasons of public health or safety by a Minister of the Government or a body established or regulated by or under a statute;

(cc) the clearance of vegetation in the course of fisheries development works carried out by the Central Fisheries Board or a regional fisheries board in the exercise of its functions under the Fisheries Acts, 1959 to 1999;

(d) the destroying of any noxious weed to which the Noxious Weeds Act, 1936 , applies;

(e) the clearance of vegetation in the course of road or other construction works or in the development or preparation of sites on which any building or other structure is intended to be provided;

(f) the removal or destruction of vegetation required by a notice served by the Minister under section 62 (1) of the Act of 1946 to be removed or destroyed;

but this subsection shall not operate to exclude from subsection (1) of this section anything done by burning.

(3) The Minister may request from the person concerned details of any works carried out under subsection (2)(c) and such details shall be furnished to the Minister by that person together with a statement of the public health or safety factors involved.

(4) In any proceedings taken in respect of a contravention of this section consisting of the doing of any act, it shall be a good defence to prove that the doing of that act was necessary for the purpose of extinguishing or preventing the spread of a fire while it was in progress or for the purpose of saving human life or was necessary in any other emergency in respect of which that act was an appropriate measure.

Truckermal · 18-02-2014 9:02am

How long does the Motorway continue for after the Gort exit?? I got the answer myself.

antoobrien · 18-02-2014 11:41am

glineli wrote: »

I am surprised by that as all teh commentry from public representatives and senior employees at Galway and Calre County Councils had indicated that the constrauction would begin in Q1 2014.

The Mayor of the county still believes this.

http://www.connachttribune.ie/breaking-news/29538-mayor-hopes-for-work-to-start-on-gort-tuam-motorway-next-month

He says that following a conversation he had with the Minister for Roads and Transportation, in recent days, he feels that work could possibly start on the motorway by the end of next month.

ratracer · 18-02-2014 11:44am

With the amount of flooding along the route between the end of the motorway and the next proposed exit at Kiltiernan, I can't imagine much work being done along this end for a while.