Krav Maga

pma-ire · 02-02-2005 3:06pm

Tim_Murphy wrote:

I presonally don't understand why anyone would go training 2 or 3 times a week to learn self defence or to train for 'the street'. I'm not saying its an unhealthy mindset, I just don't really see why you would unless you're a bodyguard or whatever.

It's an interest thing. To a bodyguard, bouncer, garda, army or whatever it's what they have to do (should do) for the job.

If people wer'int training this way out of interest then these groups would not have a pool of instructors that they could tap (pardon the pun

).

Do what you enjoy doing.

columok · 02-02-2005 6:51pm

If youre interested in self defence and yet arent working in an occupation that requires advanced knowledge of how to hurt people why would self defence interest you?

I think its important to ask yourselves this? If youve been attacked before and dont want to let it happen again then fair enough. Any other reasons?

Coupe · 02-02-2005 8:20pm

Why do people learn to swim? or fly airplanes? or paint? etc etc....

Most (not all!) do it because they get enjoyment from it no more no less.

Can we get past the "you either need it for your profession or you're a psychopath bit".
It ain't that hard to get the head around the idea of what you enjoy training at may have the added benefit (in extreme and unusual circumstances!) of being useful in the real world.

I'm unlikely to drown walking down Grafton St. (that's the fancy one in Dublin for you country lads

) but yet I still learnt to swim for excercise and fun.

So can we finally park the illogical notion that if you look beyond the gym you're "not quite right in the head"? Either that or call the Guards cos there's a load of nutbags on this thread, myself included!!!!...... :eek:

columok · 02-02-2005 10:40pm

Well if increasing your life spent on this earth is your No.1 concern then the things that are more likely to aid you are:

Do more cardio
Do some Yoga
Eat less salt
Eat less sugar
Drink less alcohol
Learn a foreign language or two (will help you get out of scrapes)
Learn how to survive in the wild
Learn first aid
Do a food hygiene course
Dont smoke
etc. etc.

I think self defence, considering the amount of time people put into it, is really a low yield activity unless you are working in a hazardous activity.

Now if youre doing self defence stuff for the fun then you need to find an environment that is gonna give you healthy fun without any negativity!

Colm_OReilly · 02-02-2005 11:03pm

I think the self defence thing here is being represented.

The argument seems to have gone along the lines of

"I'm not interested in sport, only self defence"

"The only way to develop skill necessary is to train dynamically, like in MMA"

"Yeah but what about the street"

"I think that's an unhealthy mindset"

"So you don't think I should do self defence"

...and so forth

Again I'd like to stress that most people practice Functional JKD with little or no serious intentions of competing in MMA, let alone becoming a world champion.

Peace and Love Y'All,
Colm

vasch_ro · 03-02-2005 1:11am

RIGHT I'VE DECIDED
there's only one thing for it, we need two volunteers
one a Krav Maga dude and the other an MMA'er
into town saturday night stroll them around say Temple Bar/ O Connell Street
two different locations for the 2 volunteers
wait until some scummers pick on them and see what happens !!!!!

vasch_ro · 03-02-2005 1:12am

obviously if the volunteers are both from the south we will move to cork / waterford etc etc

vasch_ro · 03-02-2005 1:14am

columok wrote:

Well if increasing your life spent on this earth is your No.1 concern then the things that are more likely to aid you are:

Do more cardio
Do some Yoga
Eat less salt
Eat less sugar
Drink less alcohol
Learn a foreign language or two (will help you get out of scrapes)
Learn how to survive in the wild
Learn first aid
Do a food hygiene course
Dont smoke
etc. etc.

you forgot Tai Chi, having a long term relationship, and a glass of wine a day

Coupe · 03-02-2005 2:16am

columok wrote:

Well if increasing your life spent on this earth is your No.1 concern then the things that are more likely to aid you are:

Do more cardio
Do some Yoga
Eat less salt
Eat less sugar
Drink less alcohol
Learn a foreign language or two (will help you get out of scrapes)
Learn how to survive in the wild
Learn first aid
Do a food hygiene course
Dont smoke
etc. etc.

I think self defence, considering the amount of time people put into it, is really a low yield activity unless you are working in a hazardous activity.

Now if youre doing self defence stuff for the fun then you need to find an environment that is gonna give you healthy fun without any negativity!

We're still struggling a little with the whole doing it for fun, enjoyment etc. bit aren't we!

Listen, I'm 6'4" I excercise regularly. I've never been in a fight of any description (just lucky I guess!) and I took up KM purely out of curiosity and found I enjoy it. I'm not walking the streets in fear of imminant assault by drug crazied lunatics or looking to test my "deadly fighter killer skills" on the first guy that looks crooked at me and nor are any of the people I train with to my knowledge. Sometimes we have more fun than we know what to be doing with...

I also don't plan on bucking the trend and living forever and have no interest on living on a diet of Tofu or walking around with a "what to do in case of..." manual for every eventuality life throws at me. So don't worry about us types.

However if I do happen to discover the elixer of everlasting life I'll be sure to let you know.

By the way I'm thinking of taking up parachuting next year and I think we can all agree that as activities go potentially they don't come more low yield than that!! But guess what just for fun again....

Don't worry be happy

Musashi · 03-02-2005 8:52am

If youre interested in self defence and yet arent working in an occupation that requires advanced knowledge of how to hurt people why would self defence interest you?

Why should I not be interested in minding myself?
Self-Preservation is the number one drive we've got,if the ship is going down I'm gonna trample women and kiddies to be first on the boats

If youve been attacked before and dont want to let it happen again then fair enough. Any other reasons?

To not have it happen at all,either by being seen to be aware and alert by a potential assailant or by being able to handle a self defense situation if it arises.

I am a first aider,don't smoke,don't look for hassle,and could build a shelter and kill my own food if it came down to that.I learnt these things because it took my fancy to do so.Not because I'm paranoid about a holocaust or Zombie invasion.....................
However if the dead do arise I hope to have enough ammunition to get to a fortified building large enough to support a small community and you lads are welcome to borrow tools if ye make it down here,just bring your own women!

Millionaire · 03-02-2005 12:35pm

Doing self defense is not a low yield activity. your still working out, getting fit, feeling great, social interaction, and meeting some cool people, and making new friends, and even going for a pint or two after training. and in the process your learning a life skills that should the need arise, you can avoid trouble, diffuse with verbals, defend, or save a loved one. I think it is a fantastic investment of time.

Funny, I actually always though competing in martial arts competitions of all types was low yeild (my own personal view) and is one of the main reasons I stopped competiting. Look at Full contact kickboxing (my own experience) train for months, road work 6am, off alcohol, staying in cause you gotta train, hours and hours of tough gym time. then you go a fight a new rounds, and risk the chance of a serious injury, (getting brain injury thru knock out, broken nose, broken leg, etc etc , and no not argue on this one), then you get a plastic trophy of your trouble. (and the promoter makes a killing of course). Now that is low yield.

Or even a points tournament, ok you may not train as hard as for full contact, so you go to some leisure complex down the country for 10am registration, and hang about all day sunday until 4pm for your divison to be called. your not in form that day and you get elimated in your first fight. I have so say the most BORING sunddays of my life were competiting in light contact kickboxing. for me personally another very low yeilder.

Anyway re the other things to do , like yoga etc etc, sure I do yoga once a week too and other hobbies and I enjoy them as much as my self defense. and personally spend much time running my own successful company, etc.
so I do not at all come near the bodyguard or either a psycho hypothesis people are putting forward here.

Each to their own.

mark.leonard · 03-02-2005 12:46pm

For VT competition we travel to Belfast (5 hour round trip from galway), hang around with astronomical stress levels until our match is up (anything from two to three hours) and the fight is generally over in less than ten minutes, on top of that you have the six weeks prior of HARD training, dieting and trying to live healthy that goes with it and you know what? Every bit of it is worth it when you get your hand raised!

I have been talking to a couple of my students about the whole idea of the gains from competing and I believe that for some there will never be enough reward for competing if they do not enjoy the act itself, these people are not fighters at heart and will pursue martial arts for different reasons and more power to them!

pma-ire · 03-02-2005 1:16pm

Mark and Millionare,

Good comments both

Millionaire · 03-02-2005 1:21pm

yeah I know the feeling...the weight in...which one of these b*****ds is my guy! :-)

I would not agree if you do not like competition your not a true fighter, I was and still am, as I got older I just could not justify the time, and the travelling and the hanging around. I suppose I developed other priorities that were more important, like finishing my education, career etc etc.

Clive · 03-02-2005 5:28pm

pma-ire wrote:

Clive man, it don't take a Judoka or Wrestler or any kind of MA'ist to put you on the ground. All it takes is a mental nutter that charges through you and takes you down with him.

We (MA'ists) all hope that our stand-up skills will keep us there in a real fight. But you can't say "I would just do this and that and I'm sorted". You can't fortell what a nutter will do with intent on his mind, we can only give ourselves a chance by covering the skills that might need to be used to get out of those situations.

As I said, I could be taken by surprise by this hypothetical charging nutter, or slip, in which case I'd be glad I had ground training, where I would try to bridge, sweep or otherwise put myself in a position to get back up.

The original point I was addressing was the issue of going/being taken to ground and the dangers inherent in that.

All I'm saying is that if I was worried about some scummer slamming me on my head, then I'd certainly not step into any sort of ring where the clinch was a factor. As it stands, any scummer who has entered into a clinch with me has been safely and politely detained for the Gardai Shickolana.

pma-ire · 03-02-2005 6:26pm

Clive wrote:

As I said, I could be taken by surprise by this hypothetical charging nutter, or slip, in which case I'd be glad I had ground training, where I would try to bridge, sweep or otherwise put myself in a position to get back up.

The original point I was addressing was the issue of going/being taken to ground and the dangers inherent in that.

All I'm saying is that if I was worried about some scummer slamming me on my head, then I'd certainly not step into any sort of ring where the clinch was a factor. As it stands, any scummer who has entered into a clinch with me has been safely and politely detained for the Gardai Shickolana.

Coolio then

Colm_OReilly · 04-02-2005 10:28am

To quote Paten again:

"Cricumstances dictate tactics, and plans change upon contact, but the delivery system remains a constant throughout"

dabhal · 04-02-2005 10:45am

Colm_OReilly wrote:

To quote Paten again:

"Cricumstances dictate tactics, and plans change upon contact, but the delivery system remains a constant throughout"

How very apt for self defence

mark.leonard · 04-02-2005 11:26am

Colm_OReilly wrote:

To quote Paten again:

"Cricumstances dictate tactics, and plans change upon contact, but the delivery system remains a constant throughout"

That is the most comprehensive way of putting it.

Millionaire · 07-02-2005 4:00pm

look at this site www.urbancombatives.com

have a read of this, alot of what is said on here would sum up my own views and goals in martial arts, also very similar to alot of what us advanced KM students aim for.

There is some excellent articles and references on here.

Blub2k4 · 25-02-2005 5:09pm

Millionaire wrote:

look at this site www.urbancombatives.com

have a read of this, alot of what is said on here would sum up my own views and goals in martial arts, also very similar to alot of what us advanced KM students aim for.

There is some excellent articles and references on here.

I was thinking of doing Krav Maga as the hype says it is condensed techniques to survive and as a result I ended up on this thread, and got this far.
What strikes me is Millionaires aggressiveness, how many street fights have you been in?
It is not something typical of MA discussions in fairness, you seem like the person I'm worried about attacking me on a night out?
Is your level of aggression typical of Krav Maga types?

<edit> I have no previous MA experience.

Gilgamesh · 25-02-2005 5:15pm

Blub2k4 wrote:

I was thinking of doing Krav Maga as the hype says it is condensed techniques to survive and as a result I ended up on this thread, and got this far.
What strikes me is Millionaires aggressiveness, how many street fights have you been in?
It is not something typical of MA discussions in fairness, you seem like the person I'm worried about attacking me on a night out?
Is your level of aggression typical of Krav Maga types?

I agree in this totally and was kinda wondering the same thing.

I did MA for over 9years and have to say, that I saw a few violent f"ckers during that time in training,but they were expelled from the school, as they were reflecting a bad reputation on the place.

I personally think you are one of the worst people to advertise a MA, no matter if it is KM or any other MA.

You seem to be looking for a fight wherever you go, from how you write Millionaire, and this is an abuse of self defense.
It doesn't matter who throws the first punch, a fight normally starts before that, by hyping people up.

If you can't handle that, then walk away before teasing the opponent until they make a swing.

Blub2k4 · 25-02-2005 5:17pm

You've put me right off KM as a possiblity Millionaire.

Coupe · 25-02-2005 6:05pm

Lad's with respect, I can't take either of your comments seriously. You're making judgements on a system based on your impressions (which are incorrect I might add and I know cos I train with him) of one individuals postings....
Do yourselves a favour and go find out for yourselves rather than coming up with lame justifications. However if you are indeed feeling squemish about Millionaire's postings and not just taking cheap shots well then you're probably right, KM isn't for you....
By the way I have never been in a fight of any kind in my life. Don't know if that makes me good or bad....

Blub2k4 · 25-02-2005 6:17pm

Coupe wrote:

Lad's with respect, I can't take either of your comments seriously. You're making judgements on a system based on your impressions (which are incorrect I might add and I know cos I train with him) of one individuals postings....
Do yourselves a favour and go find out for yourselves rather than coming up with lame justifications. However if you are indeed feeling squemish about Millionaire's postings and not just taking cheap shots well then you're probably right, KM isn't for you....
By the way I have never been in a fight of any kind in my life. Don't know if that makes me good or bad....

I'm not just taking a cheap shot, I wanted an impression of the form as I was considering it, despite my huge misgivings about its origins. Millionaire has quite a lot of martial arts background which would lead me to believe he would have a level of discipline which his posts dont betray.
Make of it what you will but as an ambassador for KM he is not the best.
[/point]

Millionaire · 25-02-2005 6:51pm

When I speak to self defense I speak to situations where it is impossible or gone beyond talking your way out of it. not refering situations where some drunk guy is giving you a bit of stick outside the pub or whatever.

Am I an agressive type. Absolutely not! I hate fights, I hate thugs. As a person I am very happy go lucky always laughing!

Sure I have had a defend myself a few times over the years where it was impossible to walk from. The only reason I referred to this, was to back up some of the points I made. And I totally stand by the times I had to defend myself.

As a person, 2 uni degrees, run a successful service type biz in Dublin, and certainly not aggressive.

Thats like saying people doing MMA or NHB fighting are thugs or aggressive types which is simple not true. (I do think their a bit nuts in a good way though...sorry MMA Lads! : -))

I think iits wrong to take shots at me, because I recognise the realities of street self defense. and I stand by my points back and white.

Remember each to his own. Personally myself I have totally no interest in traditional martial arts anymore. its not my scene. However if others on here enjoy them, excellent! thats their choice,and I have no right to run TMA or whatever down, just because I don't agree with it.

I am not an ambassador for KM. KM is just a bunch of techniques aimed for real life situations and has been tried and tested for years. However I am an ambassador for what will work in a real life situation..and I mean really work. and there are many others outside of KM doing simliar. I could n't care less if I put u off KM, I am there training for myself...no one else.

In the real world an attack is a very nasty horrible thing, it ain't pretty. If you refuse to accept the realities for my previous posts, thats fine, just ensure no one ever gets too close to attack you....if u can.

Gilgamesh · 28-02-2005 12:14pm

Millionaire wrote:

yeah I am aggressive. both in martial arts and in business. I make no apology for that......
.

quote from a different thread, hmmmm...... :cool:

Colm_OReilly · 01-03-2005 7:34pm

Coupe, Millionaire,

You guys coming to the gathering March 20th?

Blub2K4, Gilgamesh,

You guys are welcome to come along to it aswel. That way you can see a range of ma's before you pick one that suits you!

Peace and Love Y'All,
Colm

Millionaire · 01-03-2005 8:09pm

not sure if I can make it colm, coupe may go.

hoping to catch the event in the point. be nice to get an Irish victory that weekend!
Keep up the aggressive training...the more you sweat in training the less u bleed in battle and all that sort of pre fight stuff!

Gilgamesh · 03-03-2005 11:46am

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Coupe, Millionaire,

You guys coming to the gathering March 20th?

Blub2K4, Gilgamesh,

You guys are welcome to come along to it aswel. That way you can see a range of ma's before you pick one that suits you!

Peace and Love Y'All,
Colm

would be interested to come, not sure if I can manage it though. Am not really looking for a MA to start, did it for 9 years, and had to stop, because I broke a vertibrae.

Is it Domes or active training you are doing there?

Krav Maga

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