The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

05-09-2008 12:30am

U-Turn wrote: »

If France told us to burn our constituaiton and replace it with some EU treaty should we do it (hand in the fire if you don't get the cross pollination). In france only routes where there is a public alterntive to match are tolled if you follow.

Regards money gong into private companies coffers.... thats exaclty whats happening, Paul Cullen of the Irish times stated on radio a few days ago that The Government are only going to generate 25 million a year from this even though the Toll bridge is estimated to generate over 80 million in Tolls. Sound like a good Deal.

Not a bit.

More bad deals for the taxpayer and commuter foots the bill.

I'll put it in another context so you can see my point. 25 million is not alot in the great scheme of vital infrastructural things. If you rememebr During the ranibow coalition of the early 90's (when money was much tighter) they abolished 3rd level fees. Reportedly it was only going to cost an extra 12 million to the taxpayer to do so. Small cost and visionary decision in light of the larger benefit down the line most of us probably grew up with. This kind of thinking doens’t happen on FF’s watch . FF never favour the Public they always side with private business against the public greater interests.

Government-Corporist privatisation of public assests that we have paid for. The usual scam.

Your point about the Toll brudge being owend by NTR and private is erroneous becasue you have avoided the context. NTR bought the Land of the Governmetn initially knowing the the M50 was ready to rock.

This was a no brainer.
This was a massive con inacted by the state under Flynns watch.

From Day one this oll was always unjust and building a bridge is not a waste of public money nor is it a burden. Why do you think you pay motortax. The economic effect of a non Tolled M50 since inception would have been even greater and all of the tax revenue generated across the economic spectrum would have returned as other taax revenue in order of magnitude that would making this petty scheme look enemic and unburdensome on the travelling public.

For the record I am not a memeber of the media or any political party (I did set up that website I previously linked too so if thats media then aybe i am but its a blog with a forum, dont' want to post link agian in case I am accused of spamming). I simply lived long enough and in proximity to the M50 to know how stupid a setup it really is. I avoid using it on principal and have only used it about 3-4 times as a driver (more probably as a passnager)

I personally want to see the toll ended and some real focus on the real issues of the day not this farting around with people lives and wasting time and money.

Are people thick or what? Bridge building has been done for thousands of years. WTF is road tax for. Fine bring in private companies to build them and make a profit but a fixed amount. I mean goddamn!

If I had to use that toll everyday for business I know I would be organising something end the toll once and for all. Its really not that hard to do.

BDW · 05-09-2008 12:30am

I assume this is the best place to ask my question.
On Tuesday I will be picking up my sister from Dublin airport,
turning off the m4, onto the m50, coming off at the Dublin airport turnoff and repeating from the other direction

I assume I'll get tolled on the m50 for both ways (it's Ireland what more can I expect?).

My question is does anyone know of a place on the way back that I can stop in to pay the toll without having to come off midway up the m4 resulting in yet another toll to get back on it?

Or would it just be easier to pay it online? has anyone done this? is it easy?

From the guts of this it's looking to be about 11 euro in tolls for the day if I have estimated the m4 toll correctly....

j1smithy · 05-09-2008 12:44am

BDW wrote: »

I assume this is the best place to ask my question.
On Tuesday I will be picking up my sister from Dublin airport,
turning off the m4, onto the m50, coming off at the Dublin airport turnoff and repeating from the other direction

I assume I'll get tolled on the m50 for both ways (it's Ireland what more can I expect?).

My question is does anyone know of a place on the way back that I can stop in to pay the toll without having to come off midway up the m4 resulting in yet another toll to get back on it?

Or would it just be easier to pay it online? has anyone done this? is it easy?

From the guts of this it's looking to be about 11 euro in tolls for the day if I have estimated the m4 toll correctly....

If you get a receipt at the toll bridge on the M4, you can go into kinnegad for two hours and then hand the receipt in at the bridge on the slip road to continue your journey. You dont have to pay the toll twice if you go into kinnegad

BDW · 05-09-2008 1:00am

does there have to be someone manning the booth for this? if so any idea what time they leave?

Run_to_da_hills · 05-09-2008 1:06am

Deleted User wrote: »

Are people thick or what? Bridge building has been done for thousands of years. WTF is road tax for. Fine bring in private companies to build them and make a profit but a fixed amount. I mean goddamn!

If I had to use that toll everyday for business I know I would be organising something end the toll once and for all. Its really not that hard to do.

This plasa has absolutly nothing at all got to do with collecting tolls as I mentioned before, It is all about penalised people into accepting RFID tags and clarifying their registration details for an international roll out of ANPR / RFID useage,

When the system is up and running An Garda Siochain and their European counterparts will have a field day enforcing law and order right across the Europe, ANPR and RFID can be used for catching speeding motorists I.E, point to point timing as used on the Autoroutes in France for the last two decades. This very same technology is used for policing bus lanes, illegal parking, detecting untaxed vehicles, applying congestion charges etc etc.

DublinDilbert · 05-09-2008 2:07am

There's been some talk about being able to fool the vision systems, but the Tags aren't infallible either..... http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/21301/?a=f

j1smithy · 05-09-2008 2:51am

BDW wrote: »

does there have to be someone manning the booth for this? if so any idea what time they leave?

as far as I know, the toll booths on the far left as you approach the bridge are manned 24hrs a day. i dont think the express lanes give receipts but i'm open to correction

j1smithy · 05-09-2008 2:57am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This plasa has absolutly nothing at all got to do with collecting tolls as I mentioned before, It is all about penalised people into accepting RFID tags and clarifying their registration details for an international roll out of ANPR / RFID useage,

When the system is up and running An Garda Siochain and their European counterparts will have a field day enforcing law and order right across the Europe, ANPR and RFID can be used for catching speeding motorists I.E, point to point timing as used on the Autoroutes in France for the last two decades. This very same technology is used for policing bus lanes, illegal parking, detecting untaxed vehicles, applying congestion charges etc etc.

I don't think this is in the right thread, but why do you seem so bothered about the guards using technology to enforce our laws? As for RFID being used to keep tabs on us .... conspiracy theories is that way -->

cormie · 05-09-2008 3:23am

The tax man wrote: »

I'm in a Ford Connect so it's €2.80 for me.(tag account) I'd tell them to have a hard look at the Ford spec sheet. That's surely what they need to go by when they set vehicles into different weight classes.

Just put my reg into the non registered payment section and it automatically puts me in the under 2,000kg class.€3.80.:eek:It also lets me pick that weight class manually. What happens if you manually choose under 2,000kg class with your reg? Will it revert to over 2,000kg?

edit: Manual weight class option now locked out for me.

Yeah, manual weight class is greyed out for me too. I'll ring them in the morning and pay that way and try haggle the price and see how far I get

(the €3.80 price that is, I'm NOT paying the €5.10 price)

cormie · 05-09-2008 3:45am

Just had a look at my DOE cert and it reads I have an ULW of 2020kg:eek: Now I don't know where that came from, because looking at the spec sheet there's only 1 that's over 2,000KG (Kerb mass I think is the same as ULW):

I have the 350 90 as far as I know, but it was actually bought as a 330 90, and fitted with an extra spring or something to allow it to carry extra weight and it's classed as a 350 on the vehicle registration info. I really hope the 2020 is a mistake, I really don't want to be paying what could be hundreds extra each year for the extra weight of a bag of cement and sugar. :mad:

I wonder did they just weigh it with all the crap I had in the van (dolly/hand truck/lock etc) and put that as the ULW?

I don't think that's the exact spec sheet of my transit, because I can't see any 90 PS option.

R.O.R · 05-09-2008 8:04am

Cornie,

Clear everything out of your van then head to your nearest weighbridge. Get the printout from them and roll up to the eflow offices demanding they link your reg to the correct weight class.

The welcome letter Mrs. R.O.R got from EFlow came from the Broomhill Industrial estate in Tallaght, but the only address on the web is a PO Box in Dublin 17.

Run_to_da_hills · 05-09-2008 8:42am

j1smithy wrote: »

I don't think this is in the right thread, but why do you seem so bothered about the guards using technology to enforce our laws? As for RFID being used to keep tabs on us .... conspiracy theories is that way -->

There is no conspiracy about it, Point to point speed traps are already in place in Scotland using ANPR cams known as . the "Yellow Vultures" placed at intervals along the motorways. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4681507.stm I already mentionned about ANPR cams being introduced into Dublin bus lanes.

The Garda Siochain will have FULL access to records on any electronic toll plaza in the country.Typical scenario: You tax is out on your car for several months as you have been travelling abroad, you come home and go to tax it, you get the cops to sign a declaration stating that the car was off the road for the duration. Next thing you get a court summonses in the post stating you made a false declaration because your son drove the car through an electronic toll plaza.

Sizzler · 05-09-2008 8:55am

So has anybody used the M50 since last week, not subscribed to the tag system and not bothered to pay for the journey within the 48 hours allowed?

Also, do they take a pic of the license plate from the front or the back, just out of curiosity! And do they take a pic of the whole car?

Run_to_da_hills · 05-09-2008 8:58am

Sizzler wrote: »

So has anybody used the M50 since last week, not subscribed to the tag system and not bothered to pay for the journey within the 48 hours allowed?

Also, do they take a pic of the license plate from the front or the back, just out of curiosity! And do they take a pic of the whole car?

Front and back.

cormie · 05-09-2008 9:41am

R.O.R wrote: »

Cornie,

Clear everything out of your van then head to your nearest weighbridge. Get the printout from them and roll up to the eflow offices demanding they link your reg to the correct weight class.

The welcome letter Mrs. R.O.R got from EFlow came from the Broomhill Industrial estate in Tallaght, but the only address on the web is a PO Box in Dublin 17.

Got onto the VRO and the place I got it DOE'd and I've to go to a weigh bridge who charge €25 euro to weigh it, get a cert from them with the weight, then bring it to the tax office and fill in a change of particulars form, then send that off and wait till it's processed and then hopefully eflow will have it right then. It wont be ready by 8 this evening so that's really annoying. I also got a roof rack fitted recently so I'll probably have to take that off to get it under the 2,000KG

Wonder what's going to happen "penalty" wise for me now?

Heroditas · 05-09-2008 10:05am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is no conspiracy about it, Point to point speed traps are already in place in Scotland using ANPR cams known as . the "Yellow Vultures" placed at intervals along the motorways. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4681507.stm I already mentionned about ANPR cams being introduced into Dublin bus lanes.

They're in place up just north/west of Newry too. They mustn't be operating as point to point traps though because nobody seems to stay below the speed limit!

delly · 05-09-2008 10:45am

Being a car driver who has had an easypass for a few years, I checked my acccount to see how the charges went in and found the following:

04-09-2008 08:55 €2.00 Toll south to north Debit-Toll
03-09-2008 17:14 €2.00 Toll south to north Debit-Toll
03-09-2008 09:51 €2.80 Toll south to north Debit-Toll
02-09-2008 17:21 €2.00 Toll south to north Debit-Toll
02-09-2008 09:07 €2.00 Toll south to north Debit-Toll
01-09-2008 17:14 €2.00 Toll south to north Debit-Toll
01-09-2008 08:56 €2.00 Toll south to north Debit-Toll

Eh, wtf is the €2.80 doing in there? I rang them up and they said they'd refund it, but more to the point how did it happen and how many other people will be wrongly overcharged? I know my company has an easypass account with a load of tags and they could well be overcharged without even knowing it.

cormie · 05-09-2008 10:49am

€2.80 is the price for a van ex vat.

What's with the south to North twice a day and no north to south?

delly · 05-09-2008 10:53am

Morning is actually North to South, afternoon is South to North. Dumbasses got that wrong as well.

When I rang up to check, as my account says I have a Vectra, he asked me if it was a Vectra van I was driving :pac:

Our man in Havana · 05-09-2008 11:04am

cormie wrote: »

Got onto the VRO and the place I got it DOE'd and I've to go to a weigh bridge who charge €25 euro to weigh it, get a cert from them with the weight, then bring it to the tax office and fill in a change of particulars form, then send that off and wait till it's processed and then hopefully eflow will have it right then. It wont be ready by 8 this evening so that's really annoying. I also got a roof rack fitted recently so I'll probably have to take that off to get it under the 2,000KG Wonder what's going to happen "penalty" wise for me now?

What does your tax disc say?

When weighing it, take everything you can out of the van. Leave the diesel as low as you can go. Remove the spare wheel. Make sure to get out of it when they are weighing it.

fletch · 05-09-2008 11:07am

delly wrote: »

Morning is actually North to South, afternoon is South to North. Dumbasses got that wrong as well.

Ask them for your money back as you don't travel North ot South in the mornings!

Mr CJ · 05-09-2008 11:57am

delly wrote: »

Morning is actually North to South, afternoon is South to North. Dumbasses got that wrong as well.

When I rang up to check, as my account says I have a Vectra, he asked me if it was a Vectra van I was driving :pac:

Actually I would refuse to pay half of that bill, let them bring you to court, I would be almost certain you would win your case as you did not travel in the direction specified it is in black & white & providing you have prove!

You will be certain they will correct the bill with the correct text!

This is what everyone should be doing, get them on the most smallest things, dont forget these B******* will take you to court!!

Mr CJ · 05-09-2008 12:00pm

What do you think about starting a new thread dedicated for people opposed to this new system so we can discuss possible protests?

I am all up for one, and I dont even use the thing, if I had 2 use it I would b goin mad!

cormie · 05-09-2008 12:41pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

What does your tax disc say?

When weighing it, take everything you can out of the van. Leave the diesel as low as you can go. Remove the spare wheel. Make sure to get out of it when they are weighing it.

Didn't even think of Diesel and the tyre, thanks

Haven't checked my tax disc, does it usually mention the weight?

Ask them for your money back as you don't travel North ot South in the mornings!

What have I started

Although I'd ask them for the money back too :pac:

Run_to_da_hills · 05-09-2008 12:47pm

cormie wrote: »

€2.80 is the price for a van ex vat.

What's with the south to North twice a day and no north to south?

We can expect all kinds of errors particularly with those that are not registered, I can imagine the results of a car with a large roof box or caravan passing through could be passed off as commercial or an articulated truck Or motorcycles with large sidecar combinations, somewhere the machine is going to get confused and will issue a dodgy printout.

You are dealing with cameras with sensors that read plates, If the number is not clear it is entirely up to the discretion of the system. I doubt very much if they are going to have individuals behind computer screens scrutinising every vehicle that passes through seen as the NRA gave all 120 of the toll staff the ass.

Our man in Havana · 05-09-2008 12:56pm

The plate recognition is fully automatic. All the unreadable plates are thrown out to be looked at by a human who can then correct the plate readout.

I doubt the ANPR is identifying class of vehicles also.

Run_to_da_hills · 05-09-2008 1:04pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

The plate recognition is fully automatic. All the unreadable plates are thrown out to be looked at by a human who can then correct the plate readout.

I doubt the ANPR is identifying class of vehicles also.

A few years ago I got a parking ticket for parking on the path outside Dunlaoghaire church, I owned a motorcycle at the time. something that was never an issue with cops or wardens, When i enquired about the fine I was told it was an articulated truck. This was about 15 years ago before any automation.

andyeire · 05-09-2008 1:45pm

j1smithy wrote: »

If you get a receipt at the toll bridge on the M4, you can go into kinnegad for two hours and then hand the receipt in at the bridge on the slip road to continue your journey. You dont have to pay the toll twice if you go into kinnegad

It's Enfield that you would need to get a receipt to leave M4.

Kinnegad has no toll booths and is only about 15 mins after Enfield

delly · 05-09-2008 1:53pm

I could object i suppose, but meh, lifes too short.

cormie · 05-09-2008 2:10pm

It's the longest thing you'll ever do :pac:

You could pop off a letter/email and see what happens. Be interesting to see as I'm sure it's not just you. Imagine thousands of people started to appeal

The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

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