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Turning .22LR HV in Subsonic (Removing Powder)

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  • 29-10-2014 1:04am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭


    This is probably a stupid question/idea but was shooting Federal HV ammo and to my surprise got a sub sonic the velocity isnt much over the speed of sound so could i take out some of the powder to make them subsonic?

    Was just a though as sub sonic ammo isnt cheap and Federal stuff is dirt cheap but im not saying id spend hours going though a box of 525 removing powder but would be interesting to see if it would working if it was dangerous and if the bullet wouldnt mess up the rifling after being pulled out of the casing!:pac:


Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    No. For numerous reasons.
    1. As soon as you take the round apart you are in possession of component parts including the propellant and that is illegal without a reloading license.
    2. If you were allowed you need reloading equipment to seat the bullet back in the case.
    3. Pulling the bullet with a pliers will damage the case and bullet. Accuracy and safety go out the window.
    4. You need a scales to measure how much is in it and how much you have removed. Otherwise you get a box of varying ammo and accuracy goes out the window.
    Sub sonic ammo is ammo below the speed of sound which is 1,128 fps. HV is above this. What sub sonic are you buying that costs so much. The average price of a box of subs is between €5.50 to €7.50. The more expensive stuff is target ammo and is not needed for hunting.

    You can also buy tins of SK for around €60 which have 500 or so. That's 12 cent a bullet.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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  • Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭1shot16


    Thanks for the detailed answer to my stupid question haha

    Buy in the RFD near college in Waterford:

    Fiocchi 9 euro a box in Outdoor Sports
    Winchester 8 a box in BallyBricken

    Then in Portlaoise CCI subs 17 euro for 100! :o
    And think the tins of sks there was 90 but cant be sure!

    I may stick to federal for targets and subs for target shooting with the price of the subs!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    1shot16 wrote: »
    Thanks for the detailed answer to my stupid question haha
    Ya don't ask, you'll never know.
    Fiocchi 9 euro a box in Outdoor Sports
    Winchester 8 a box in BallyBricken

    Then in Portlaoise CCI subs 17 euro for 100! :o
    And think the tins of sks there was 90 but cant be sure!
    Do they supply the vaseline at that price?

    I like Jim McBride's shop. He can be a little more expensive than others, but rarely does the man not have something i'm looking for. I say this to highlight the fact that if he can do this ammo at these prices then the prices you are quoting above are a complete <insert expletive>:
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭1shot16


    Cass wrote: »
    Do they supply the vaseline at that price?[/LIST]

    Nah i normally bring my own :pac:
    Cass wrote: »
    He can be a little more expensive than others, but rarely does the man not have something i'm looking for. I say this to highlight the fact that if he can do this ammo at these prices then the prices you are quoting above are a complete <insert expletive>:

    Ye i was shocked 17 euro for 100 cci 5 euro the difference to mc brides! :o

    Outdoor sports have cci standard velocity at 1070 fps making them sub sonic and only 4.50 a box not hp but sure theyre find for targets!

    Griffen Hawe have good ammo prices!Might make a trip up again... during the summer when picking up the rifle brought back 1500 rounds haha may do the same again!They have a good selection!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,027 ✭✭✭clivej


    If you shop around CCI target subs can be got for €7.50 box of hundred


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  • Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭1shot16




  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭Baker.22


    Do not try to pull the bullet out, you cannot but damage it or the casing.Also how would you recrimp the casing ?

    As for price I can buy 1000rds of cci for €75, that's €3.75 for 50 and that's not an unusual price


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭German pointer


    1shot16 wrote: »


    I buy fron them . Liam will post them on receipt of license


  • Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭1shot16


    I buy fron them . Liam will post them on receipt of license

    So send on a copy of the licence?

    Do i have to be there to show my licence or be there in person to accept it as thats not possible due to boarding school so im not home during the week!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Stick your hyper velocity rounds in a deep freeze for four months.They will lose enough power to be sub sonic.;)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭German pointer


    He accepted my licence by email but I have bought other firearms from him so he knows me but I dont see you having a problem


  • Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭1shot16


    Thanks for the reply might give him a shout before i purchase to make sure!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    To the original poster! An idea that would not really be worth the effort except when the SHTF.

    To cass
    (if ye don't ask ye'll never know)

    Can you explain point no 1
    Quote"
    [*]As soon as you take the round apart you are in possession of component parts including the propellant and that is illegal without a reloading license." End Quote
    So where are ye getting these licences from! And whats allowed under them?

    And can you explain how component parts of ammunition are not allowed under the law? Perhaps it's something to do with the firearms acts or another act but youll know which and you might share that info?

    Thanks cass


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    So where are ye getting these licences from! And whats allowed under them?
    Department of justice, and reloading.
    And can you explain how component parts of ammunition are not allowed under the law?
    The cases and bullets are covered under our firearms licenses, but the primer and propellant is covered under the explosives act, and requires a separate license which, as said above, can be gotten from the DoJ.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    Cass wrote: »
    Department of justice, and reloading.


    The cases and bullets are covered under our firearms licenses, but the primer and propellant is covered under the explosives act, and requires a separate license which, as said above, can be gotten from the DoJ.

    I can't for the life of me find any details on the DOJ site about this licence for an activity that as far as I know is not prohibited under Irish law! Perhaps you might help ne put this issue to bed! In paticular how are licences issued for an activity that requires no licence?
    Where is the legislation that sets this requirement in place?
    Also are you actually issued a licence paper or plastic or is it a group thing and have you actually seen this doc?

    In relation to the 1875 explosives act and as far as I know there exists an exemption for the retention of a small amount of explosives for sporting usage! Now as far as I know this legislation has not be superseded by any re-write and it's something that I'll explore a little further but if you have looked at this then your opinion would be appreciated.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    how are licences issued for an activity that requires no licence?
    Perhaps i mis-spoke. The license is not for reloading, but to own, buy and possess the propellant and primers. Until a few years ago lads were getting this authorisation. I don;t know of anyone still getting it as an individual though.
    Where is the legislation that sets this requirement in place?
    In the Explosive Act and Firearms Acts. You're more than welcome to go digging for as i have neither the patience or heart for it.
    Also are you actually issued a licence paper or plastic or is it a group thing and have you actually seen this doc?
    As said above i have never sought, nor been granted an individual authorisation that relates to reloading. I do mine under the group scheme in the Midlands for the target shooting. I know of two lads that had them. Never seen any license, if that is how they are authorrised. Perhaps someone that received this might be better able to explain the exact details.
    In relation to the 1875 explosives act and as far as I know there exists an exemption for the retention of a small amount of explosives for sporting usage! Now as far as I know this legislation has not be superseded by any re-write and it's something that I'll explore a little further but if you have looked at this then your opinion would be appreciated.
    You could very well be right.

    All i know is this. The pilot scheme that began at the midlands is now a full scheme. I see some refer to it as a pilot scheme still, but after nearly 5 years i think we can remove the word pilot. When the scheme was introduced we (all the shooters involved) were given a list of rules that the DoJ laid out in order for us. This included no reloading at home, no individual possession of propellant/primers at home, bullets and brass were fine, etc, etc.

    Since the "shake up" of reloading i don't know of anyone that has been granted a license, authorisation, permission (written or verbal) to reload at home and have in their possession the component parts including propellant and primers. None of that makes reloading illegal as an act, just illegal without a license. Same as owning a gun. Not illegal to have one so long as you are licensed.


    I'll finish on this. Grizzly45 done some hard work on finding details and what would be involved in getting reloading as an individual. He gathered that it could be done as an individual, just the cost may be prohibitive. Whether there is some ancient loophole that allows for the storage of propellant, allows reloading without a license, etc. i'm sure that would be much different in theory than practice. IOW the DoJ & An Gardaí may make life difficult for you and could even try and bring charges under section 30 (Offences against the state as opposed to section 12, firearms offence).


    As someone that reloads in the Midlands i'd love to have it at home. I'd also like to see others have it too, but i don't run it, don't control it, and newsflash for everyone else, neither does the Midlands. The DoJ run it, control it, monitor it, and regulate it. I have wasted a lot off my time trying to explain things, and "excuse" the Midlands for us having reloading. I don't do that anymore. People that think what they do will continue to do so regardless of what i say so i don't try anymore.


    If you believe you can do it then by all means go for it. I don't claim to, nor have any interest in, policing real world events. In fact if you try and are successful then i encourage you to let us, and me, know the process you used and how you get on. Genuinely. Not being facetious.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    Thanks for genuine reply Cass and yes I too would like to see reloading rolled out to all wanting it!

    And as far as grizzlys endeavours went! Iirc he seemed to meet with an abrupt end pertaining to excessive costs relating to modification of his home and upgrading of his alarm systems to a standard that was set for industrial premisses and stores. It seemed that any efforts to highlight the caveat for the exemption from such industrial standards when one is only retaining such small amounts for pure sporting usage was shot down by those in positions of authorty. Options for ags that allowed the storage of powder and primers relied upon secondary legislation and a Uk system, yet it provided a mechanisim that allowed authorities sign off in a manor that was recognised over the water!
    This is sketchy info tbh but it's what I have managed to price together.
    These authorisations are no longer being signed off or accepted and I have no clue as to what decade this was allowed or last done?

    It's my opinion that the PTB need to accept the 1875 explosives act and allow for sporting usage and the storage of explosives within the act! Especially when you consider that it was 1993 when the EU issued a directive requesting a re-write of the explosives act with civilan storage specifically mentioned....?..
    Yet we are still here crying for crumbs!

    I'm too busy at present to really devote energy to the issue! But if I win the lotto then I'm going to fight a good fight! Lol


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