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Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Enbee


    jd wrote: »
    Worst part of the letter is where he says the Dart Underground is a waste of money because the Phoenix Park tunnel could do the same thing...

    That particular idiots' mantra pops up on a very regular basis when the Interconnector gets mentioned. It's incredibly galling when one considers that Irish Rail have had this up for ages:

    http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp

    It very clearly explains why the underground is a missing link in a network but numbskulls like that letter writer still seem to think its sole purpose is to link Heuston and Connolly.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    dynamick wrote: »
    Allowing Frank McDonald and others to keep repeating that the Metro will cost 5 or 6 billion is helping the project promoters. When the final bid comes in and it's closer to 2 billion, everyone will be surprised at how little it's costing.

    Is McDonald still harping on about MN and the Interconnector?

    His very own 2000 book "The Construction of Dublin" sings the praises of the Interconnecter and a partially underground Luas to the airport... how times change!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    MYOB wrote: »
    Is McDonald still harping on about MN and the Interconnector?

    His very own 2000 book "The Construction of Dublin" sings the praises of the Interconnecter and a partially underground Luas to the airport... how times change!

    front page of the IT, going on about how passengers changing at Pearse will have a long walk as the underground station is to be at the junction of Sandwith and Boyne streets, as if it would be possible to build a tunnel from Sherrif street to Heuston alright but impossible to provide a connection from the eastern end of the inside of Pearse station to these tunnels and have a walk of less than the length of the existing platforms in Pearse....


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,676 ✭✭✭jd


    Letter in the Indo
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/metro-is-surely-a-nonstarter-now-2284709.html

    Basically this guy is taking one estimated cost of the metro over the 35 year life of the PPP and applying a 5% interest rate to it :confused::confused::mad::rolleyes:
    ...

    The Metro is supposed to cost €5bn. If we assume the project is to be financed by loans at an interest rate of 5pc, the annual interest payable would be €250m.

    If we further assume there would be 25 million passengers annually (the official estimate is about 35 million, but that was pre-crash), then the interest cost alone would be €10 per passenger (before considering ordinary operating costs such as staffing, electric power, repair/maintenance, etc).
    ...

    Such financing costs could not be borne by the passengers; they would be carried by the long-suffering taxpayer.

    Many will agree that the cost of this project is simply not justified at this time.

    ...

    JOHN STAFFORD
    Dublin 16


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,015 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    jd wrote: »
    Letter in the Indo
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/metro-is-surely-a-nonstarter-now-2284709.html

    Basically this guy is taking one estimated cost of the metro over the 35 year life of the PPP and applying a 5% interest rate to it :confused::confused::mad::rolleyes:
    I wonder does Mr. Stafford think that only people who get sick should pay taxes to fund hospitals. Silly argument anyway.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    It would be nice if for once, a letter making a coherent argument for or against the Metro North and DART Underground projects could be printed in the papers.

    The letters seem to be uninformed drivel. Not saying people aren't entitled to an opinion, and we can't expect everyone to have the level of knowledge, say, posters here would have. But it would be a welcome change if the opinions of people whose views come from more than regurgitated IE/RPA press releases and personal bias were aired too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Empire o de Sun


    jd wrote: »
    Letter in the Indo
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/metro-is-surely-a-nonstarter-now-2284709.html

    Basically this guy is taking one estimated cost of the metro over the 35 year life of the PPP and applying a 5% interest rate to it :confused::confused::mad::rolleyes:


    the same could be said of the M50 when the western parkway opened, it was considered a waste of money and a white elephant.

    But it provided a new access corridor for the city that did attract investment and growth for the city. And the economy would suffer very badly if it was shut down tomorrow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Enbee


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    It would be nice if for once, a letter making a coherent argument for or against the Metro North and DART Underground projects could be printed in the papers.

    The letters seem to be uninformed drivel. Not saying people aren't entitled to an opinion, and we can't expect everyone to have the level of knowledge, say, posters here would have. But it would be a welcome change if the opinions of people whose views come from more than regurgitated IE/RPA press releases and personal bias were aired too.

    I'm sure the papers receive them but why would they want to publish them? They do seem to favour the cranks. Unfortunately.
    the same could be said of the M50 when the western parkway opened, it was considered a waste of money and a white elephant.

    But it provided a new access corridor for the city that did attract investment and growth for the city. And the economy would suffer very badly if it was shut down tomorrow.

    Really? Did some critics seriously suggest that the likes of Kylemore Road was sufficient? Good grief!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Some of our fine citizens really do have their head up their arse when it comes to economics. All they can see are the black and white numbers, the graphs and the figures. They think these are the real measures of value in this world.

    I suppose that's why the boom was doomed, because of all these people running the show, with their faces mashed into their newspapers, trying to deduce the meaning in the graphs and pie charts, and betting their future with a logic based primarily on this flawed worldview of probabilities. Tossers.

    A bit of old fashioned ambition would not go astray in Ireland. Its sorely lacking, actually.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Some of our fine citizens really do have their head up their arse when it comes to economics. All they can see are the black and white numbers, the graphs and the figures. They think these are the real measures of value in this world.

    I suppose that's why the boom was doomed, because of all these people running the show, with their faces mashed into their newspapers, trying to deduce the meaning in the graphs and pie charts, and betting their future with a logic based primarily on this flawed worldview of probabilities. Tossers.

    A bit of old fashioned ambition would not go astray in Ireland. Its sorely lacking, actually.
    I'm afraid I have to agree with you here. Not to mention about 50% of the population are sheep who take anything they read in their rag newspapers as gospel and are blindly following their party talking points without putting any of their own thought into the situation.

    We should be pioneering and building for the future, not sitting around building just what we need for today - just to have to go back a few years later and expand because capacity has been reached.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Two letters from The Irish Times:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0806/1224276309026.html
    Madam, – Frank McDonald is continuing his long-running crusade against underground rail in Dublin (Home News, August 4th). Having already tried to argue last week that there is insufficient socio-economic benefit to be accrued from the underground rail lines planned by the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) and CIÉ, he now changes tack in an attempt to whip up a storm about the impact on St Stephen’s Green.

    There are strong arguments in favour of both lines and against other options.

    First, no studies are required to conclude that Dublin’s roads are too narrow, congested, and overcrowded with buses to be able to significantly increase bus traffic.

    Second, an above-ground Luas line from the city centre to the airport would be too slow, due to competition with other road traffic on almost the entire route.

    Third, we should plan for the medium and long-term and not avoid investment just because the number of commuters from the northeastern suburbs of Dublin may not match predictions made during boom-times. We must take account of the long lead-in times for public transport system delivery in this country.

    Fourth, it is inevitable that some temporary disruption would take place, in particular at locations near proposed underground stations, such as St Stephen’s Green.

    As the article itself points out, most changes will be temporary, with the exception of the felling of mature trees and the construction of a ventilation shaft.

    While the felling of any mature trees is a great pity, it is ridiculous to imply that this should be grounds for opposing the construction. St Stephen’s Green is the obvious choice for a station from a transport planner’s point of view, linking together, as it will, the existing Green Luas line, Metro North and the Dart interconnector, and situated near key shopping and office districts.

    With some ingenious planting by the excellent OPW, I’m sure the current sense of seclusion can be restored to that small corner of the Green which will be affected during the construction phase.

    As for the ventilation shaft, we should employ an artist to make it a talking point, a new example of city art, like the Hundertwasser waste incinerator slap-bang in the heart of a mixed residential district in Vienna (but that’s another story).

    Let’s start building as soon as possible and create thousands of badly-needed jobs and a public transport system for the 21st century. – Yours etc.
    Madam, – It was with great interest and abject horror that I read Frank McDonald’s article and realised that St Stephen’s Green would be “the principle casualty of Metro North and Dart Underground.” I have absolute sympathy now with its residents of ducks, swans and water hens whose habitats are under threat and can only presume that I had overlooked their plight through my own selfishness.

    There was I, thinking: surely the human residents of East Wall, another casualty of Dart Underground, would have a much more serious plight on their hands! – Yours, etc,

    A bit of a welcome change. The first is a decently-argued case for Metro North. Wouldn't agree with everything that the writer says, but it makes several points in a readable and logical manner and seems have had some actual thought put into it rather than just spitting back other people's words. Far, far better than the usual trash.

    The writer could've mentioned that the railway order actually includes a rendering showing what the shaft will look like AFTER planting and maturation. I notice Mr McDonald seems to have conveniently overlooked that and the Irish Times article shows the render of what the shaft looks like immediately after construction.

    The second, well... a good point being made, and a little bit of bland humor as well. :D

    In short, a refreshing break from the mediocre letters that usually get published.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    Sorry for side tracking but Frank McDonald has doubious credentials.

    He was in the paper a few weeks back with an article about how many architects had lost their jobs in last few years.

    Well Frank - it took more than arty farty architects to sustain the building boom over the last few years - what about all the other trades and professions?

    Lets look at jobless figures

    How many from construction have lost jobs in last few years? overall? maybe 200,000???

    So maybe half are in Dublin say 100,000???

    1,000 jobs potentially were at risk with Quinn Group a few months back - task forces etc were set up

    Where are the construction focused task groups for the 100,000 above in Dublin alone mentioned above? FMcD would be far better representing all sectors of the construction industry instead of just his Merlot swiging lovey dovies!


  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭etchyed


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    The writer could've mentioned that the railway order actually includes a rendering showing what the shaft will look like AFTER planting and maturation.
    Sorry to be lazy, but just out of interest, could you post a link to that? The railway order documents leave me confused and discombobulated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Typewriter


    According to a poster on archiseek it looks like ABP are now delaying their decision on Metro North till possible October.

    http://www.archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=109597&postcount=739


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Didn't pick up the Post and there's nothing online.

    Can anyone verify this?

    Wouldn't surprise me, honestly.

    re: etchyed

    Post Planting view from Kildare Street

    Post Maturation view from Kildare Street

    Mr McDonald seems to be working from the assumption that the Green won't be replanted, which shows he hasn't done his research. That or these images and the corresponding documentation which discusses replanting of the green have been completely ignored. You can take your pick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭mackerski


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Mr McDonald seems to be working from the assumption that the Green won't be replanted, which shows he hasn't done his research. That or these images and the corresponding documentation which discusses replanting of the green have been completely ignored. You can take your pick.

    Research that will work contrary to your preferred position is counter-productive, no?

    I recall a public meeting about 20 years ago where what became the Dubin Port Tunnel was being discussed. I heard it asserted that the Stillorgan Dual-Carriageway was already practically motorway-standard, and from that day on have been cautious of utterances from the asserter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    So I saw the SBP.

    It seems the decision has indeed been delayed another 3 months due to ABP apparently needing more time (as said earlier in the thread, one of the consultants did not complete a report that was due).

    That will make it over 2 years with ABP.

    Regardless of my undecided position on the project, this seriously makes us look incredibly unattractive to international bidders. These delays are very expensive.

    A rigid planning process is of course absolutely crucial. I think everyone can appreciate the complexity of this project. But a needlessly convoluted and inefficient one is damaging and almost makes us look like we're taking the tenderer's interest as a joke.

    Having passenger services running by 2017 is looking an ever-distant target. And that's IF everything else goes according to plan.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭dynamick


    http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/metro-north-delayed-yet-again-50991.html

    I wonder how long it will take after the railway order is granted for the government to select the winning bidder and sign the contract.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    dynamick wrote: »
    http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/metro-north-delayed-yet-again-50991.html

    I wonder how long it will take after the railway order is granted for the government to select the winning bidder and sign the contract.

    The plan as far as I re-call, before the 3 month delay, with all other things going the way the RPA want:

    Railway Order - Summer 2010.
    Select Bidder - End 2010
    Enabling Works - Early 2011.
    Financial Close & Detailed Design - Late 2011
    Begin Construction - Early/Mid 2012
    End Construction - Late 2016
    Passenger Services - Early 2017

    An enforceable railway order is required even for the enabling works, and a period of roughly two months is needed for the order to come into effect. So this 3 month delay could have major implications for the project timescale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭lods


    The Irish Times on Metro North today

    Metro North work to begin in April despite calls for rethink
    OLIVIA KELLY

    WORK ON the long-awaited Metro North line from St Stephen’s Green to Dublin airport and north Co Dublin will begin in April, the Railway Procurement Agency has said.

    However, several city businesses are calling for the Government to cancel the project or postpone it until the economy recovers.

    Following several delays in the planning process, Bord Pleanála last month wrote to the RPA stating its intention to issue a decision on the railway order for the Metro by the end of October.

    The agency said if the railway order was granted as expected next month, it would be able to start enabling work on the line in April 2011.

    One prominent businessman, Colm Carroll, who owns nine gift shops in the city centre, has recently launched No To Metro North, a campaign to stop the project which he said would “rip the whole city apart”, costing thousands of jobs and causing the closure of businesses.

    However, the RPA has hit back at Mr Carroll’s claims, and said Metro was essential to the long-term viability of the city.

    The enabling works due to start in April – moving utilities, such as gas, and pipes or broadband lines – would have “some impacts”, said project director Rory O’Connor, but new services would be installed before the old ones were cut and the work would be done in sections to minimise traffic disruption.

    He said during the construction phase proper, from mid-2012 to 2016, work sites would become “more noticeable”. The front of St Stephen’s Green would be closed to through traffic from Dawson Street to Glovers Alley, with the exception of the set-down area in front of the Fitzwilliam Hotel.

    Apart from this area there would be no road closures in the city, but Westmoreland Street would be open only to public transport. Access would be preserved to all premises for servicing and deliveries, with “local diversions” where necessary.

    Although the cross-city Luas BXD line no longer has funding under the Government’s current capital programme, Mr O’Connor said that, pending the approval of Bord Pleanála, the RPA still intended to install Luas track at the Metro construction sites, avoiding the need to dig up these sites later when funding is available for the full Luas project.

    Mr O’Connor said the construction of Iarnród Éireann’s Dart Underground “will largely run in parallel” with the Metro. However, as the Luas and Dart were separate projects only now at the start of the planning process, there was no guarantee they would be granted planning in time to link up with the Metro construction.

    Many calls were made for all three rail schemes to be dealt with as one project, but Mr O’Connor said this was never a realistic option.

    “It was not practical for a number of reasons. All three are big enough as they are in terms of trying to raise private financing in the market. You couldn’t get funding if you tried to tie two of them together.”

    City centre business already counting cost of major construction on St Stephen's Green
    Some Dublin businesses say their livelihoods will be threatened by the Metro project even if it benefits the city in the long run, writes OLIVIA KELLY

    NEXT MONTH An Bord Pleanála will issue its decision on the railway order sought two years ago by the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) for the construction of Metro North.

    The 18km line would run from St Stephen’s Green to Belinstown north of Swords, with 17 stops including Dublin airport, Ballymun, Dublin City University and the Mater hospital. If the railway order is granted as expected, initial work will begin on the line next April, the RPA said.

    These “enabling works”, which largely involve diverting utilities, will take approximately a year, with full construction work starting in 2012 and, the agency said, finishing in 2016.

    Around the time the decision is due, hearings will begin on the RPA’s application for the Luas BXD, the cross-city line designed to link up the original Luas Red and Green lines and the Dart Underground line, which falls under the remit of Iarnród Éireann.

    The Luas line is no longer in the Government current capital programme; the Metro and Dart Underground remain. Regardless of when construction on these lines goes ahead, all routes ultimately converge on the north west quarter of St Stephen’s Green, making it for several years the biggest construction site in the State.

    One of the most prominent businesses on this part of the Green is the Fitzwilliam Hotel. Its brochure promotes the “tranquillity and calm” of its location, a statement that may have to be amended when construction begins.

    Hotel owner Michael Holland has already moved to minimise the risks of a prolonged construction period outside his front door. Through a legal agreement reached with the RPA he has secured the relocation of escalators to the station, the continuance of vehicular access to the front door, and guarantees on the hours of construction, as well as dust and pollution mitigation measures.

    Securing these guarantees came at a price, which he said few other businesses could afford.

    “A business like ourselves, a large strong business can manage to put together teams of experts. €400,000 is the cost of the submission we made to the planning process – very few businesses could afford that. The system is grossly unfair.”

    Despite these measures the hotel will have to install additional glazing “at considerable expense” in order to ensure the comfort of guests. The hotel learned an expensive lesson during the construction of the Luas Green line, when a senior executive from an international firm was woken at 3am by drilling. As a result the hotel lost a corporate account worth €300,000 a year.

    “Disruption directly on our hotel will be reduced. Needless to say there will still be a serious impact, but our concern is for the city generally. What the RPA is promoting is a Celtic Tiger era project. We couldn’t be in a more different place today. It is absolutely the wrong time to inflict such a major infrastructure project on the city.”

    Proponents of the scheme say this is short-sighted thinking. The construction phase will undoubtedly be tough, but the compensation will be a top-class rail infrastructure which will be of huge benefit to the city. Mr Holland doesn’t agree.

    “The Metro is an incredibly expensive commuter system we don’t need. It might be different if it was a dedicated airport metro, like the Heathrow Express, but it’s not. There are too many stops on it, business people won’t use it, and I’d wonder if tourists would either when there are dedicated airport buses that go non-stop to the city centre.”

    If the Government insists on pursuing the Metro, and the Dart and Luas projects, they should at the least postpone construction until the economy picks up, Mr Holland said, to give small businesses a better chance of coping with the upheaval, and so finance is there to do all three concurrently.

    “To contemplate going ahead with three different projects over three different time frames will destroy Dublin city. Small businesses will shut down. Nobody wants to come into a city that’s half shut. That is what will happen if they attempt this before there is full economic recovery.”

    Diagonally across the proposed construction site from the hotel, restaurateur Susannah Jackson of Il Posto said experience of other construction on the Green has left her with very specific concerns about the Metro work.

    “A building nearby was getting some refurbishment done and it involved pile drivers. There were rats running up and down the road. They didn’t get into the restaurant, but it was all we could do to keep them out.”

    The restaurant is tied into a lease for the next 10 years, and for most of this time, Ms Jackson estimates, the area will be a construction site.

    “I don’t think any of us can continue through this. We’ve fought very hard to stay open during the recession and the ash cloud, even if we made it through the construction, what sort of place is it going to be afterwards?”

    Drew Flood, general manager of the Cliff Town House, formerly Bentleys, a few doors down, has very clear views on what sort of place the Green will become.

    “It’s going to be like Baghdad. It would be like taking the Champs Elysees, taking Mayfair and turning it into Baghdad. It will be the death knell of Stephen’s Green and the death knell of Grafton Street.”

    Unlike the Fitzwilliam Hotel, Mr Flood says, he does not have the resources to mount a legal challenge to the specific aspects of the project that affect his business. “We’re at the mercy of the RPA. We don’t have the money to hire lawyers – we just have to wait and see what happens to us, and whatever happens, it seems we just have to take it.” The construction plans for the Metro alone would make it impossible for the business to operate, he said.

    A large sum of money was put into the refurbishment of the building, to develop a high-end restaurant and boutique hotel which caters to a loyal clientele, Mr Flood said. That business is now under serious threat.

    “The only hospitality business required on St Stephen’s Green for a 10-year period will be making bacon rolls.”

    On the wrong track: four city centre business owners on why metro north should be mothballed
    Interviews by OLIVIA KELLY

    RAY MOONEY

    GENERAL MANAGER OF THE THE STEPHEN’S GREEN HIBERNIAN CLUB

    The Stephen’s Green Hibernian Club founded by Daniel O’Connell has been operating from 9 St Stephen’s Green for 170 years. The building itself dates from 1740. In 2005 the club spent €3.4 million restoring the building, including €200,000 on its rare ceilings.

    “The ceilings date from 1759 and are reputedly the finest examples in Europe; we’ve been told they’re priceless. We recently had a group of 47 architects come to look at them. Yet the RPA have made no reference to them,” said Ray Mooney, the club’s general manager.

    Vibrations from the construction work are probably the biggest threat to the building. The Dart underground line, which will involve tunnelling directly under the building, represents the single greatest risk, Mr Mooney said, but the combined effect of this, the Metro and Luas BXD was his biggest worry.

    “We lodged objections to all three, the Metro the Dart and the Luas, but our main objection is that they haven’t looked at the combined effects of all three.”

    The location of the Metro station has dictated the location of the Dart underground platform which is being located underneath the club. The Office of Public Works in its remit to protect the park prevented the works from being moved further into St Stephen’s Green, Mr Mooney said. “It seems that ducks are more important than jobs.”

    The club, with its 1,400 members, employs more than 30 people. Mr Mooney said a 10 per cent loss in business could close it down.

    “There will be a 22ft high hoarding outside the window. Who is going to want to be sitting in our dining room looking out at that?”

    COLM CARROLL

    CARROLL’S IRISH GIFTS

    Colm Carroll has spent 30 years buildings up his business, Carroll’s Irish Gifts. He now employs 200 staff in nine shops in Dublin city centre, seven of which, he says, will be directly affected by the Metro construction.

    Mr Carroll was initially supportive of Metro North, with the caveat that it would not affect businesses in the city centre. However, he said it was clear from the plans that would not be the case. “This will rip the whole city apart. All the main thoroughfares of the city are going to be dug up. No matter what spin the RPA puts on minimising the impact of the Metro North works on businesses, even a relatively small impact is too much with businesses in such a fragile state.”

    While the numbers of businesses which lodged objections with Bord Pleanála in relation to the Metro project indicates the large level of concern over construction impact, Mr Carroll believes a great many businesses, which are struggling to cope with daily pressures, have not thought through the implications of the project.

    For this reason he has launched the No To Metro North campaign. Mr Carroll has displayed posters in his shops from St Stephen’s Green to O’Connell Street saying the Metro will “kill Dublin city”. He is also calling on businesses in the city to lobby the Government to stop the project before it is too late.

    “When the original Luas lines were being built the turnover of retailers fell by between 30 and 60 per cent; that was during the good years and over a much shorter time than what is being proposed for Metro North.”

    He said in addition to the costs of the construction there would be a huge tax loss to the exchequer of a massive slowdown in business as well as increased dole payments for the workers who would inevitably lose their jobs.

    In terms of his own business, Mr Carroll believes he will not survive the construction process. “There will be times when people won’t have access to our stores, won’t even be able to see our stores behind the hoardings. We need to stop the madness.”

    He said tourists would not come to the city during the construction. The loss in tourist revenue would clearly have an effect on his business, but he said the potential loss of tourist revenue to the city would be €1.45 billion a year.

    NOELLE CAMPBELL-SHARPE

    OWNER OF ORIGIN GALLERY, HARCOURT STREET

    Wire barriers, “mountains” of earth, rubble, large machinery and almost constant noise are Origin Gallery owner Noelle Campbell-Sharpe’s memories of the construction of the Luas Green line in Harcourt Street.

    As a resident as well as a business owner, she was apprehensive about the project long before construction began, but said she had no real concept of what was to come. “It all came on very suddenly. Suddenly there was just devastation in the street. We didn’t visualise before hand; and the RPA certainly didn’t visualise for us what was going to happen.”

    Ms Campbell-Sharpe said she had been told that construction of the Harcourt Street section of the line would be up to eight months.

    “The gap between what they said would happen and what occurred was massive. At the start they said it would be a matter of seven or eight months; it was almost two years.”

    The lack of information on how long the building works would take and the ongoing changes to the completion date made it very difficult to plan exhibitions and shows.

    One of the main difficulties in running her business was access. At times it was virtually impossible to get into the building.

    “We certainly almost went out of business. We had to close on occasions and we were very close to closing up completely.

    Harcourt Street was a no- go area.”

    JOSEPHINE KELLIHER

    OWNER OF RUBICON GALLERY, ST STEPHEN’S GREEN

    As a builder’s daughter, Josephine Kelliher, owner of the Rubicon Gallery, understands that you can’t legislate for every eventuality when it comes to a construction project.

    “I’d have a fairly pragmatic sense of the variables that happen around building work. I don’t know if you can ask any contractor to stipulate the exact length of a build or exactly how it will run; they just don’t know before they break ground.”

    Any meetings she has requested with the RPA have been granted, and they have answered her questions as far as they can. However, she says that doesn’t give any guarantee she’ll be able to remain open during the build.

    “I have huge concerns about accessibility during the build. I have been given clear assurances about accessibly, but I know the road outside will not be accessible to traffic.”

    Her concerns about access to the building relate not just to customers, but to getting art works into the building. It is likely that paintings will have to be carried from Dawson Street to her building, which may not be possible during construction because of dust and dirt.

    “One of the most disturbing things at this point for my business is the level of uncertainty and doubt; it means you can’t make business plans.”

    She said the Metro was a “hugely ambitious undertaking” which would undoubtedly benefit the city in the long term.

    “The end result will no doubt be a more navigable city. But with my business hat on I’m petrified. I have my doubts we will be able to stay open during all of this.”


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭mackerski


    lods wrote: »

    If you had the choice between a decent new transport axis or a network of shops selling tacky crap to tourists, which would you choose?

    Yup, me too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    mackerski wrote: »
    If you had the choice between a decent new transport axis or a network of shops selling tacky crap to tourists, which would you choose?

    Yup, me too.

    Tack v transport? Transport wins.

    I hope the railway order hearings go smoothly and that the Railway Order's granted by the end of next month followed by a start on prep works/construction in April.

    Metro North, plus Dart underground (and extensions), plus Luas improvements and extensions = Dublin finally gets decent rail-based public transport network.


  • Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭lods


    Tack v transport? Transport wins.

    I hope the railway order hearings go smoothly and that the Railway Order's granted by the end of next month followed by a start on prep works/construction in April.

    Metro North, plus Dart underground (and extensions), plus Luas improvements and extensions = Dublin finally gets decent rail-based public transport network.

    Have they not posponed all Luas works including BX:confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 355 ✭✭GizAGoOfYerGee


    Let´s ban all future rail projects in Dublin City so that Mr. Carrol can sell his oversized plastic leprechauns.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Metro North will raise rents in the inner station areas enough to make selling tat out of them prohibitive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 355 ✭✭GizAGoOfYerGee


    Although the cross-city Luas BXD line no longer has funding under the Government’s current capital programme, Mr O’Connor said that, pending the approval of Bord Pleanála, the RPA still intended to install Luas track at the Metro construction sites, avoiding the need to dig up these sites later when funding is available for the full Luas project.

    Does that mean they will install tracks from St. Stephen´s to O´Connell? Where will they get the funding to install these tracks?

    There is also a growing opposition against the use of overhead lines through these areas. Depending on APB´s rulling, these tracks may have to use APS, which is hugely expensive and not always reliable, and may make line BXD unviable altogether due to cost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭Telchak


    Does that mean they will install tracks from St. Stephen´s to O´Connell? Where will they get the funding to install these tracks?

    There is also a growing opposition against the use of overhead lines through these areas. Depending on APB´s rulling, these tracks may have to use APS, which is hugely expensive and not always reliable, and may make line BXD unviable altogether due to cost.

    Think it may mean just over the stations themselves, as, presumably, digging up the ground on top of a Metro station in a few years would be difficult and disruptive to the to passengers beneath. =/


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Depending on the construction method, RPA may just choose to rebuild the street with sublayers and tarmac over top so that when the time comes they scrape off the top few inches, lay the rails and supporting infrastructure etc.

    In Toronto they have completely changed how they build tram track. At the moment the whole road has to be reconstructed but new construction plans a much less intrusive replacement procedure as well as much better noise isolation.

    If RPA decides to go battery powered rather than APS then laying power during the pre-construction phase is less of an issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭Telchak


    Notice that there's plenty of talk to the threat to the 200 or so jobs at Carroll's shops, but (I believe) nothing about the five to seven thousand construction jobs Metro North is expected to create :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Does that mean they will install tracks from St. Stephen´s to O´Connell? Where will they get the funding to install these tracks?

    There is also a growing opposition against the use of overhead lines through these areas. Depending on APB´s rulling, these tracks may have to use APS, which is hugely expensive and not always reliable, and may make line BXD unviable altogether due to cost.

    Like all transport projects there are objections, I'm not sure that they are growing . Seem to me the same bunch of naysayers are attempting to find a other stick with which to beat progress


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