Your Motorhome / Conversion, VRT and You.

Buford T Justice · 21-10-2011 12:19am

Fright wrote: »

Cheers for that man. Can you tell me one more thing? When I phone or call to any of the NSAI or SIMI reg garages, what am I actually asking them to check?
As I said, the 3 places I contacted (as suggested by the VRO in rosslare to me personally) said that they didnt do it or said they can't check gas & electricty etc.

You don't need the gas an electricity checked in the van for a conversion yet.

Like I said, for the rosslare boys, they just want a form stamped and signed to say its not a van anymore and is a camper. Just tell them that you need a declaration form signed and stamped. If they start giving you grief, just explain to them what it is you are actually looking for, and not a road worthiness report.

For the Simi side - That's an insurance requirement and needs to be done by simi. Again, they don't check the gas or electrics and its not required. The report they need to fill out is here It also includes the proposal form for dolmen if you want it. Just ask them to book it in for a vehicle inspection report for insurance purposes.

Fright · 21-10-2011 12:36am

Right, I'm armed!!
Thanks again man

hplp · 01-11-2011 12:27am

Does anyone have a definative list of what are the requirements for a vehicle to be registered as a camper? Ive looked in lots of places and cant find anything. Ive heard a sink and a 2 burner stove. Is there anything else and is there a 1.8m internal height requirement?

Thanks,
H

spaceHopper · 01-11-2011 11:01am

hplp wrote: »

Does anyone have a definative list of what are the requirements for a vehicle to be registered as a camper? Ive looked in lots of places and cant find anything. Ive heard a sink and a 2 burner stove. Is there anything else and is there a 1.8m internal height requirement?

Thanks,
H

Have a look on the revinue site, this there but you have to try a few different searches.

Buford T Justice · 02-11-2011 12:20pm

Its all been covered in one way or another on this forum before.

Fixed sitting / sleeping acommodation, may be convertivble from bed - seat. Fixed table, which can be removable. Cooking facilities of no less than 2 hobs, sink etc...

wildraspberry · 03-11-2011 1:58pm

Hi, I'm and Irish citizen and was living in the Channel Islands (outside the EU according to Revenue.ie) and bought a minibus there before the summer which I converted to a camper - put in bed, cooker etc. - but it's still registered as a minibus. I came back to Ireland with the vehicle 2 months ago fully intending to leave again within a few weeks but it's now looking increasingly likely that I will be staying here.
I've been through the forum here and the Revenue website and citizensinformation.ie but I can't find the particular answers to my situation. Or maybe I don't like the answers I'm seeing!
Basically, will I have to pay 13.3% of OMSP to import a minibus and then pay the same again to re-classify it as a camper and pay an additional charge for not registering within 30 days? And because it's from outside the EU will I have to pay VAT and customs duty?

Thanks in advance!

spaceHopper · 03-11-2011 2:07pm

You really need to talk to the VRT office in wexford, since you owned it you may not have to pay vat as there was on sale involved. I think you would be registering it here as a camper so you would only have to pay the 13.3% once. But again ask, as for the 30 days new to me how much is the charge? Chances are they will over valuse the van and you will appeal so why not talk to them.

Make sure it's a proper camper, seating + table (this can become the bed) cooker and sink.

Buford T Justice · 03-11-2011 3:02pm

If you import the vehicle and pay the VRT, and again re-classify it as a motorhome, the cost you paid for the import will be offset against the cost of the VRT for re-classification.

I imported mine as a van and paid the VRT, and when I reclassified it, the fee for import was deducted against the VRT owed for the reclassification.

hardibuck · 07-11-2011 10:30am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

That's because they haven't a clue what they're talking about. Cawleys wouldn't do the engineers report for me, I had to get that done somewhere else. Might I suggest phoning around and checking if you can get it done locally before you head off. If you're not having any luck then give quinnfix a buzz in Sligo (Garage must be simi registered). They'll do it for you, and you could nearly get everything finished in the one day or so. Provided you didn't need to bring the van back for a second time for the engineers report if you get me.

Hi Guys,

I've spent the last few months doing my conversion and now want to get it on the road. Dolmen will insure me provided I supply them with an engineers report within 2 weeks of the inception of my policy.

Cawley's in Sligo have agreed to do the SQI Inspection for 25euro so I just need to get an Engineers Report from any SIMI garage or main dealer. I'm based in Longford so would really appreciate if someone can recommend a garage that has previous experience in doing this test and isn't too picky!

Thanks in advance

Buford T Justice · 08-11-2011 1:31am

hardibuck wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I've spent the last few months doing my conversion and now want to get it on the road. Dolmen will insure me provided I supply them with an engineers report within 2 weeks of the inception of my policy.

Cawley's in Sligo have agreed to do the SQI Inspection for 25euro so I just need to get an Engineers Report from any SIMI garage or main dealer. I'm based in Longford so would really appreciate if someone can recommend a garage that has previous experience in doing this test and isn't too picky!

Thanks in advance

If you're coming down to cawleys to get the SQI report then book quinnfix for the engineers report since you're down here. At least they're prepared to do it.

Also, make sure the SQI form they stamp and sign is copied onto their headed paper else it'll be returned to you.

donkeykonky · 09-11-2011 12:29am

Hi beauford.

Quick Question with regards the Nsai form.
I've downloaded the decleration forms from your link and on the second page there is a template for SQI to be filled in. Is this form the one you need the NSAI garage to stamp or will they have one of these already on headed paper.

Cheers

Don
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wildraspberry · 09-11-2011 11:56pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

If you import the vehicle and pay the VRT, and again re-classify it as a motorhome, the cost you paid for the import will be offset against the cost of the VRT for re-classification.

I imported mine as a van and paid the VRT, and when I reclassified it, the fee for import was deducted against the VRT owed for the reclassification.

Hi, thanks for the info! Good to know I won't be getting totally shafted, I was expecting worse case scenario, I'll have to look into VAT + customs and I'm going to have to make an anonymous enquiry about the additional charge for not declaring it immediately but it could be worse...

Buford T Justice · 10-11-2011 11:14am

wildraspberry wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the info! Good to know I won't be getting totally shafted, I was expecting worse case scenario, I'll have to look into VAT + customs and I'm going to have to make an anonymous enquiry about the additional charge for not declaring it immediately but it could be worse...

I had my van for 6 months before I declared it in the south and there wasn't a word said. Just tell them its been off the road for a conversion or something.

donkeykonky wrote: »

Hi beauford.

Quick Question with regards the Nsai form.
I've downloaded the decleration forms from your link and on the second page there is a template for SQI to be filled in. Is this form the one you need the NSAI garage to stamp or will they have one of these already on headed paper.

Cheers

Don

Yes, get them to do the template on headed paper. IIRC its the one which needs them to sign and stamp it too....

Gazmantoo · 10-11-2011 11:46am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

OK, so as a result of my experience with the VRT and re-classification fiasco with the new ways of doing this and that, plus people are always asking about it I though that I'd post a guide to what to do on here for everyone.

Maybe this can be sticked for a while

There are three reasons why you will need to pay VRT on a Motorhome or a Conversion:
Importing:
If you import a Motorhome from another country, VRT will be due to the revenue for it.

New Purchase:
If you buy a new Motorhome, you will have to pay VRT. (Not really an issue here, as VRT is always built into the sale price at dealerships)

Re-Classifying a Conversion: If you convert a panel van or similar to a Motorhome, you will need to pay the VRT due on the van to the revenue before it will be classed as a Motorhome, and be elligible for the MH tax rate of €88 per year.

For the purposes of this post, I won't bother with point 2, as its a non issue.

Regardless of the size, shape or weight of the van you are importing / converting, VRT will be charged at 13.5% of the OMSP (Open Market Selling Price) of the vehicle. The OMSP of the MH will be decided by the officer who is dealing with you're case, and they generally have a scout around and see what similar vans are priced at.

I'll go with a post per topic on this, so that its not one massive post on its own.

As the 'minimum 1.8 meter interior' height criteria has now been removed I was just about to bring my Toyota Liteace campervan over from my Ma's house in Wales and register it here in Ireland, but I have just been advised by Cosy Campers in Naas that although the 'minimum 1.8 meter interior' criteria has now been removed for vrt purposes...it is still in force for road tax purposes and therefore the campervan would not be eligible for the €88 per year road tax. Could anyone confirm this to be true?...

hardibuck · 10-11-2011 7:46pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

If you're coming down to cawleys to get the SQI report then book quinnfix for the engineers report since you're down here. At least they're prepared to do it.

Also, make sure the SQI form they stamp and sign is copied onto their headed paper else it'll be returned to you.

Thanks Buford, booked in for testing next week, awful nervous thinking about it..... I hope it passes!

donkeykonky · 11-11-2011 2:21am

donkeykonky wrote: »

Hi beuford.

Quick Question with regards the Nsai form.
I've downloaded the decleration forms from your link and on the second page there is a template for SQI to be filled in. Is this form the one you need the NSAI garage to stamp or will they have one of these already on headed paper.

Cheers

Don
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Cheers. Thanks

Buford T Justice · 11-11-2011 11:35am

Gazmantoo wrote: »

As the 'minimum 1.8 meter interior' height criteria has now been removed I was just about to bring my Toyota Liteace campervan over from my Ma's house in Wales and register it here in Ireland, but I have just been advised by Cosy Campers in Naas that although the 'minimum 1.8 meter interior' criteria has now been removed for vrt purposes...it is still in force for road tax purposes and therefore the campervan would not be eligible for the €88 per year road tax. Could anyone confirm this to be true?...

Load of balls. If you're vehicle is classed as a Motorcaravan on the log book & with the revenue, then it can be taxed as such. They certainly won't be getting out from behind their glass boxes with a measuring tape to see what height your van is. I wasn't asked about the interior height in my van, and I very much doubt anyone else here was.

hardibuck wrote: »

Thanks Buford, booked in for testing next week, awful nervous thinking about it..... I hope it passes!

Best of luck. Dennis isn't too bad to deal with. Fairly straight guy.

Gazmantoo · 11-11-2011 2:58pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Load of balls. If you're vehicle is classed as a Motorcaravan on the log book & with the revenue, then it can be taxed as such. They certainly won't be getting out from behind their glass boxes with a measuring tape to see what height your van is. I wasn't asked about the interior height in my van, and I very much doubt anyone else here was.

Thanks for your reply, odd thing is when I phoned yesterday Tipp Motor Tax office they also claimed it would need to be inspected and said motor tax would be decided upon engine size if it were not 1.8m inside...in the case of my 2.0litre Liteace that would be well over €600! :eek:, I suppose I'll have to just argue my case and ask them to point out exactly where it stipulates that!

Just one other question, I'll be moving to live in South Tipp (near Carrick) in Jan because I have a place on a full time course in Waterford. But if I'm on my course during the day I obviously won't be able to get to motor tax office in Tipp.
Do you know if I could get my tax in Waterford?, or could it be done online...bearing in mind this would be my vehicle's first ever taxing???

Buford T Justice · 12-11-2011 10:28pm

Gazmantoo wrote: »

Thanks for your reply, odd thing is when I phoned yesterday Tipp Motor Tax office they also claimed it would need to be inspected and said motor tax would be decided upon engine size if it were not 1.8m inside...in the case of my 2.0litre Liteace that would be well over €600! :eek:, I suppose I'll have to just argue my case and ask them to point out exactly where it stipulates that!

Just one other question, I'll be moving to live in South Tipp (near Carrick) in Jan because I have a place on a full time course in Waterford. But if I'm on my course during the day I obviously won't be able to get to motor tax office in Tipp.
Do you know if I could get my tax in Waterford?, or could it be done online...bearing in mind this would be my vehicle's first ever taxing???

You can't tax it online no, but I'm not sure about doing it at another tax office. As for the inspection, never mind them. Get the vehicle re-classified as a motor caravan and go to tax it as such. When they see it on the system as a motor caravan then just tax it as such. Don't ask them any other questions, it confuses them.

Gazmantoo · 13-11-2011 12:55am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

You can't tax it online no, but I'm not sure about doing it at another tax office. As for the inspection, never mind them. Get the vehicle re-classified as a motor caravan and go to tax it as such. When they see it on the system as a motor caravan then just tax it as such. Don't ask them any other questions, it confuses them.

Ha!! love your last sentence

, you're quite right...you wouldn't believe the conversation I had last week with the woman behind the desk in Fonthill Road NCT centre...to call her stupid would be an insult to stupid people!...

Thanks for your advice, i'll do exactly that and get the reg part done first, i'll be polite at first over the tax, then pushy if I need to.

Mind you, I'm getting a bit fed up with the way the country is changing and our fun is being spoiled by pen-pushers!...so I might just build one of THESE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G7FZIiG3no and then take it along for vrt inspection just to give them something to think about...:D

Buford T Justice · 13-11-2011 11:14am

The only reason you need the NCT people is if you are clearing the van from the UK as a van., Then just deal with the revenue for the re-classification. But you'll need the forms stamped by an NSAI reg'd garage.

Its not that complicated if you know what you're doing, cos the people who should know don't have a clue.

Someone else · 22-11-2011 10:25pm

This thread is exactly what I was looking for and answers many questions about re classification.

However...!

If I did a quick conversion with a up-cycled old kitchen sink, knock together a bit of timber for a bed and a 2 ring Aldi gas hob, leaving it as a 2 seatbelt job with a sofa seat in the back. Cheep as chips job basically.....

Get it reclassified as a camper with low VRT, can I then rip it all out and do a proper job with 4 seatbelts, window etc??

Any thoughts??

Cheers
Mark

niloc1951 · 23-11-2011 1:33am

Someone else wrote: »

This thread is exactly what I was looking for and answers many questions about re classification.

However...!

If I did a quick conversion with a up-cycled old kitchen sink, knock together a bit of timber for a bed and a 2 ring Aldi gas hob, leaving it as a 2 seatbelt job with a sofa seat in the back. Cheep as chips job basically.....

Get it reclassified as a camper with low VRT, can I then rip it all out and do a proper job with 4 seatbelts, window etc??
Any thoughts??
Cheers
Mark

Had similar thoughts myself. As I don't consider the method of calculating VRT to be fair and transparent I would have no qualms about minimising my exposure to it.
So, IF I was going for a PVC (panel van conversion) motorhome I would certainly consider getting it to qualify for reclassification as a 'motor caravan' with the least possible expenditure and afterwards take it to the UK and get a quality 'upgrade' done by one of the converters over there like Murvi, IH, or Timberland.

hardibuck · 10-12-2011 11:22pm

QUOTE=Buford T Justice;75415777]Load of balls. If you're vehicle is classed as a Motorcaravan on the log book & with the revenue, then it can be taxed as such. They certainly won't be getting out from behind their glass boxes with a measuring tape to see what height your van is. I wasn't asked about the interior height in my van, and I very much doubt anyone else here was.

Gazmantoo wrote: »

[Thanks for your reply, odd thing is when I phoned yesterday Tipp Motor Tax office they also claimed it would need to be inspected and said motor tax would be decided upon engine size if it were not 1.8m inside...in the case of my 2.0litre Liteace that would be well over €600! :eek:, I suppose I'll have to just argue my case and ask them to point out exactly where it stipulates that!

So how'd you get on with the road tax Gazmantoo?
Or for that matter has anyone else successfully managed to tax & insure a campervan conversion that's less than the 1.8m head height spec?

stevire · 07-02-2012 11:06am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

[

EU Bodywork: For Original, it would be BB (Van Lorry) and for Converted it will be SA

Currently filling out the forms, was a lot easier the last time I converted a van! Just wondering what I should put in on the table for EU Vehicle Category, I've converted a Caravelle so body type is AF (MPV), i think. Do I still put SA in the converted category or leave it as AF?

Also on a side note, anyone use a NSAI garage around Dublin/Naas to get the form stamped?

1100shadow · 11-02-2012 4:50pm

stevire wrote: »

Currently filling out the forms, was a lot easier the last time I converted a van! Just wondering what I should put in on the table for EU Vehicle Category, I've converted a Caravelle so body type is AF (MPV), i think. Do I still put SA in the converted category or leave it as AF?

Also on a side note, anyone use a NSAI garage around Dublin/Naas to get the form stamped?

I'm converting a caravelle as well on my Log book it states vehicle eu vehicle category as M1. Can anyone help with the rest of the form as regards Eu Bodwork, Mass in Service and technically permissible mass section . Many thanks

Buford T Justice · 14-02-2012 1:39pm

stevire wrote: »

Currently filling out the forms, was a lot easier the last time I converted a van! Just wondering what I should put in on the table for EU Vehicle Category, I've converted a Caravelle so body type is AF (MPV), i think. Do I still put SA in the converted category or leave it as AF?

Also on a side note, anyone use a NSAI garage around Dublin/Naas to get the form stamped?

I'd still put it in as SA, because you're converting it from an MPV to a Motorhome.

Buford T Justice · 14-02-2012 1:40pm

1100shadow wrote: »

I'm converting a caravelle as well on my Log book it states vehicle eu vehicle category as M1. Can anyone help with the rest of the form as regards Eu Bodwork, Mass in Service and technically permissible mass section . Many thanks

Read this thread fully. Its all covered.

mazzaru · 14-02-2012 2:45pm

Buford T justice : you say that on their form we can't convert anything bigger that 3.5t but I red their notes and it says we can only convert M1 M2 M3 and N1 vehicules not just the ones below 3.5t

I'm currently converting a merc bus 7.5t GVW (M3 category) and it s ready to go in the post for the revenue I just hope you are wrong on that part coz I would be stuck if we couldn't convert our bus camper.

Is it true that we can't convert a vehicule ourself anymore, It has to be done by a professional ? when that regulation comes into place ?

Anyway thanks for this thread you ve done a good job it did help us a lot.

Buford T Justice · 15-02-2012 1:28am

mazzaru wrote: »

Buford T justice : you say that on their form we can't convert anything bigger that 3.5t but I red their notes and it says we can only convert M1 M2 M3 and N1 vehicules not just the ones below 3.5t

I'm currently converting a merc bus 7.5t GVW (M3 category) and it s ready to go in the post for the revenue I just hope you are wrong on that part coz I would be stuck if we couldn't convert our bus camper.

Is it true that we can't convert a vehicule ourself anymore, It has to be done by a professional ? when that regulation comes into place ?

Anyway thanks for this thread you ve done a good job it did help us a lot.

They've updated the form since I've done my conversion and upped it to 5t. In you're situation the maximum weight under category M1 M2 or M3 is 5 tonnes, so I personally don't seem them allowing anything bigger than 5 Tonnes, as it wont qualify for any of the M1, M2 or M3 categories once converted. You'll need to make an enquiry about it.

Vehicle categories
The European Commission adopted Regulation (EU) No. 678/2011 on 14th July 2011. This regulation replaces Annex II of Directive 2007/46/EC. Declarants should familiarise themselves with the general definitions, criteria for vehicle categorisation, vehicle types and types of bodywork set out in the Annex to the Regulation.
A Category M1 vehicle is a vehicle designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers and comprising no more than eight seats in addition to the driver’s seat.
A Category M2 vehicle is a vehicle designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers, comprising more than eight seats in addition to the driver’s seat, and having a maximum mass not exceeding 5 tonnes.
A Category M3 vehicle is a vehicle designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers, comprising more than eight seats in addition to the driver’s seat, and having a maximum mass exceeding 5 tonnes.
A Category N1 vehicle is a vehicle designed and constructed for the carriage of goods and having a maximum mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes.
A Category N2 vehicle is a vehicle designed and constructed for the carriage of goods and having a maximum mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 12 tonnes.
A Category N3 vehicle is a vehicle designed and constructed for the carriage of goods and having a maximum mass exceeding 12 tonnes.

To be deemed a motor caravan for vehicle registration purposes, a vehicle must be a special purpose EU Category M1, M2 or M3 vehicle with a bodytype SA and must be constructed to include living accommodation which contains at least the following equipment: (1) seats and table, (2) sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats, (3) cooking facilities, and (4) storage facilities. It should be noted that this equipment must (with the exception of the table which may be designed to easily removable) be rigidly fixed to the living compartment.

With regards to the home conversion, I believe that its ok to convert yourself still, but they need to be certified by an SQI which is the current situation.

Your Motorhome / Conversion, VRT and You.

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