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cleaners looking for more than minimum wage

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2

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    #32
    forfuxsake
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭forfuxsake


    call centres are often minimum wage today. If I were given a choice between answering phones for 8.65 or cleaning somebody's $hitter for a tenner it would be the phones everyday.


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    #33
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    falabo wrote: »
    I just can't get my head around this. The minimum wage is Ireland is €8.65 but most people doing cleaning ironing are looking for €10 to €15 per hour.

    what is this about ?? a Celtic Tiger thing that hasn't gone away?

    Should cleaners be paid more than the minimum wage ? In continental Europe, most people (housewives) would gladly help for 6-7 euros per hour.

    Why do people in Ireland still think they should make a huge salary even from cleaning ?

    It's jus a CLEANING job, no qualication required. This really drives me mad.

    People tend to get paid what they can get. If people are getting paid 10-15 euro an hour it's because other people value the service and are willing to pay the rates.

    An old job I had netted me 100 euro an hour.

    How does this make you feel?


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    #34
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Dudess wrote: »
    Construction jobs used to be well paid and that didn't require qualifications.

    I think you might be wrong there.


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    #35
    saa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    howsyourtusk wrote: »
    Why should any person have to clean up after another person is the question your OP should have been.

    Nope I will happily clean up after others but not for under minimum wage, if someone was really struggling financially they would be doing the cleaning themselves, you can't have cut priced cleaning, care/child care that's ugh slavery, thinking about the value of work and effort cleaners deserve a lot more than a receptionist.

    This thread conjures up the worst images in my head, well to do folk who can afford brand new cars and holidays every year complaining about the low life cleaner who needs an extra tenner so she can pay her basic living costs pathetic!


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    #36
    BASHIR
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭BASHIR


    What a ridiculous thing to get annoyed over, if you don't think its worth it, don't pay simple.


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    #37
    howsyourtusk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭howsyourtusk


    saa wrote: »
    Nope I will happily clean up after others but not for under minimum wage, if someone was really struggling financially they would be doing the cleaning themselves, you can't have cut priced cleaning, care/child care that's ugh slavery, thinking about the value of work and effort cleaners deserve a lot more than a receptionist.

    This thread conjures up the worst images in my head, well to do folk who can afford brand new cars and holidays every year complaining about the low life cleaner who needs an extra tenner so she can pay her basic living costs pathetic!

    Gladly? I dunno about that. Someone who has to clean **** up off the floor because of another inconsiderate person, vomit from drunks? You're telling me that those should be jobs in a modern society? Cleaning staff are viewed as sub-human by most people. Generally goes hand in hand with the fact they're either foreign or from working class areas. So easy to dismiss them as not even being a part of society.

    My point is, in a more equal society we'd all share in cleaning up after each other :)


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    #38
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,974 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Working with all those carcinogenic toxic substances on a full-time basis must be worth more than the minimum wage. You probably need a chemistry degree so that you know that you won't blow up someone's house when you mix two lots of cleaning stuff together, or kill yourself after getting a dose of chlorine gas.


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    #39
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    What I want to know is why do creches payments amount to much the same as a mortgage payment every month yet the staff are badly paid, little more then minimum wage. And the staff are qualified.

    There's insurance and the other expenses that businesses have but someone is making big money out of it

    Must be the owners with their charges of up to several hundred a month
    Even when the creche is closed they still charge parents


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    #40
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Dudess wrote: »
    Construction jobs used to be well paid and that didn't require qualifications.

    I think you might be wrong there.
    Being a labourer wouldn't, Starbucks. Lol - auto-correct. That's my new name for you from now on. :p
    But that can be very well paid - and rightly so. Tough job.
    Factory shift work too, especially involving heavy equipment.


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    #41
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    howsyourtusk wrote: »
    Gladly? I dunno about that. Someone who has to clean **** up off the floor because of another inconsiderate person, vomit from drunks? You're telling me that those should be jobs in a modern society? Cleaning staff are viewed as sub-human by most people. Generally goes hand in hand with the fact they're either foreign or from working class areas. So easy to dismiss them as not even being a part of society.

    My point is, in a more equal society we'd all share in cleaning up after each other :)


    Cleaning staff are highly regarded by a lot of people - to suggest that they are seen as "sub-human" says more about yourself than anyone else.

    In many areas of life & business, cleaning is an essential element. You wouldn't expect a surgeon to perform heart surgery on you, then mop up the floor afterwards?

    This isn't a matter of snobbery or the fact that we have an unequal society - it's down to the fact that people have different talents and expertise. It'd be as much a waste of the surgeons time to clean a floor as it would for the cleaner to perform an operation.

    It's just common sense.


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    #42
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    howsyourtusk wrote: »
    Gladly? I dunno about that. Someone who has to clean **** up off the floor because of another inconsiderate person, vomit from drunks? You're telling me that those should be jobs in a modern society? Cleaning staff are viewed as sub-human by most people. Generally goes hand in hand with the fact they're either foreign or from working class areas. So easy to dismiss them as not even being a part of society.

    My point is, in a more equal society we'd all share in cleaning up after each other :)

    April Fool, you can't kid a kidder :D


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    #43
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    What I want to know is why do creches payments amount to much the same as a mortgage payment every month yet the staff are badly paid, little more then minimum wage. And the staff are qualified.

    There's insurance and the other expenses that businesses have but someone is making big money out of it

    Must be the owners with their charges of up to several hundred a month
    Even when the creche is closed they still charge parents
    I've wondered that too - crèche assistants are paid terrible money, and look at their responsibility! crèche managers seem to be paid far better though. I only know this via one friend of mine who went from assistant to manager in a university crèche though.
    Private creches are probably very expensive to run though - insurance alone must be astronomical. I've never heard of anyone getting rich out of owning a crèche. Rates, rent, staffing, electricity, heating, equipment, other tariffs.


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    #44
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Still no defence from the op...

    I really hate post and run merchants that don't at least defend their rant.

    You should be allowed do this 3 times before being permanently banned.


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    #45
    Channel Zero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero


    There are strong forces at work who consider workers rights to be a barrier to prosperity. (their own that is)
    They would like to scrap the minimum wage, demolish trade unions and force us back to the 19th century in terms of labour conditions.

    Sad but true..


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    #46
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Still no defence from the op...

    I really hate post and run merchants that don't at least defend their rant.

    You should be allowed do this 3 times before being permanently banned.

    It normally occurs where the grain of the replies runs against the grain of the OP.

    Some people just lack the courage of their convictions.


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    #47
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Channel Zero wrote: »
    There are strong forces at work who consider workers rights to be a barrier to prosperity. (their own that is)
    They would like to scrap the minimum wage, demolish trade unions and force us back to the 19th century in terms of labour conditions.

    Sad but true..
    Yup.


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    #48
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Channel Zero wrote: »
    There are strong forces at work who consider workers rights to be a barrier to prosperity. (their own that is)
    They would like to scrap the minimum wage, demolish trade unions and force us back to the 19th century in terms of labour conditions.

    Sad but true..


    Trade unions have done a lot of good work especially historically, but have not always worked in the best interest of workers - this is because they are run by fallible humans.


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    #49
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    44leto wrote: »
    Its called market forces, if you don't want to pay the going rates then clean up yourself. Simple.

    Its actually the opposite of market forces. The JLC agreements which apply to cleaners, which set their rate.

    If it was purely market forces than wages would collapse to near welfare levels for unskilled work.# And if welfare was removed they would fall even further


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    #50
    Mickey Dazzler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Mickey Dazzler


    Clean it yourself op if you done like it.


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    #51
    haminka
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭haminka


    I consider my cleaning lady my saviour as she does a fantastic job and have no problems paying her 11 euro hourly rate. While I'm paying her, I don't consider myself superior for it like some seem to do. A decent cleaner who you can trust with coming to your house while you're not there is very hard to find.


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    #52
    howsyourtusk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭howsyourtusk


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Cleaning staff are highly regarded by a lot of people - to suggest that they are seen as "sub-human" says more about yourself than anyone else.

    In many areas of life & business, cleaning is an essential element. You wouldn't expect a surgeon to perform heart surgery on you, then mop up the floor afterwards?

    This isn't a matter of snobbery or the fact that we have an unequal society - it's down to the fact that people have different talents and expertise. It'd be as much a waste of the surgeons time to clean a floor as it would for the cleaner to perform an operation.

    It's just common sense.

    Yes, I highlight the issue of how society views cleaners but I myself actually don't consider them human....oh wait, what??

    Cleaning is a menial task, don't fancy it up by choosing a specific area like a hospital theatre to make it seem like a technical expertise. And yes, I would like to see the surgeon chip in when it comes to cleaning. Why shouldn't he? Why shouldn't everyone who works in the hospital contribute to cleaning?


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    #53
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Channel Zero wrote: »
    There are strong forces at work who consider workers rights to be a barrier to prosperity. (their own that is)
    They would like to scrap the minimum wage, demolish trade unions and force us back to the 19th century in terms of labour conditions.

    Sad but true..


    Trade unions have done a lot of good work especially historically, but have not always worked in the best interest of workers - this is because they are run by fallible humans.
    Oh definitely - and some can be rotten to the core - but to want an actual abolition of a body that takes care of employee rights to prevent them being screwed over... Greed really does bring out some sociopathic tendencies.

    Of course corrupt trade unions that bribe management are fine though. :pac:


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    #54
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    Is anyone else thinking of becoming a cleaner now?


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    #55
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    The cost of living is still high and is only getting higher.


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    #56
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Its actually the opposite of market forces. The JLC agreements which apply to cleaners, which set their rate.

    If it was purely market forces than wages would collapse to near welfare levels for unskilled work.# And if welfare was removed they would fall even further

    That is true but that is what the conditions of the market are, even with the kind of subsidies. Another are which sets a high market is rent allowance.


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    #57
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    Speaking as someone who has "cleaners" for family members , they would argue that they supply their own cleaning materials and can travel a fair bit to get to a job.

    My ex is a cleaner n charges €10 an hour . One of her jobs costs a tenner in petrol just to get there


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    #58
    howsyourtusk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭howsyourtusk


    Dudess wrote: »
    Oh definitely - and some can be rotten to the core - but to want an actual abolition of a body that takes care of employee rights to prevent them being screwed over... Greed really does bring out some sociopathic tendencies.

    Of course corrupt trade unions that bribe management are fine though. :pac:

    There are several major issues with trade unions really. Firstly, the wages of higher officers in these unions are ridiculous and akin to politician-esque wages. So it's difficult to care about your members who earn next to nothing when you're completely comfortable.

    Next up is partnership, 20 years of comfy relations with government during the boom times, them giving us tid bits to feed on while union heads were guaranteed cushy numbers in quangos and semi-state bodies once they moved on. It eroded the radicalism of unions and meant that apathy had entered the movement once it became necessary to fight again.

    Then finally there is the issue of most major trade unions in this country being tied into the Labour Party. All union big-wigs, bar a few exceptions, are labour party members. And hence completely and utterly conflicted, Labour in power cutting conditions, union leaders stay quiet.

    In short, workers need to win back their unions. Just going along to a branch meeting is a start. You'll probably discover it's just two monkeys and an elephant playing poker in a dark basement somewhere but sure bring a friend :pac:


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    #59
    saa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    howsyourtusk wrote: »
    Gladly? I dunno about that. Someone who has to clean **** up off the floor because of another inconsiderate person, vomit from drunks? You're telling me that those should be jobs in a modern society? Cleaning staff are viewed as sub-human by most people. Generally goes hand in hand with the fact they're either foreign or from working class areas. So easy to dismiss them as not even being a part of society.

    My point is, in a more equal society we'd all share in cleaning up after each other :)

    Yes gladly, I would clean up ****, piss, blood vomit, and yes those should be modern jobs in society because it's not possible for everyone to share in cleaning like any other role, not everyone makes a mess because they are inconsiderate, I have a degree I'm Irish and I don't see how that makes me too good for a part time cleaning or care job. I just feel that a cleaning job is not a punishment, I'd be happier cleaning or working in a rubbish tip than doing commission based sales. :pac:


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    We pay our cleaner just over one euro an hour.. Don't know how I'll ever go back to not having one. I think they should be paid more than minimum wage. Definitely one of the tougher jobs.


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    #61
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    howsyourtusk wrote: »
    I would like to see the surgeon chip in when it comes to cleaning. Why shouldn't he? Why shouldn't everyone who works in the hospital contribute to cleaning?

    Firstly, it would be a huge waste of resources having a highly trained surgeon mopping up rather than doing what he / she is trained to do.

    Secondly, it would be a hugely ineffective waste of taxpayer's money.

    And thirdly, if a surgeon was required for an operation & was busy cleaning the windows, do you not see how stupid that scenario would be?

    I'm all for an equal society, but your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


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