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N11/N25 - Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour [route options published]

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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Can someone explain to me how Oilgate/Oylgate has such high traffic counts? The current figure of 16,000 AADT is what you see in places like Castlemartyr in Cork, but that’s caused by commuters coming in and out of Cork city, and there’s no similar travel magnet in this part of the country (counters for M11 Enniscorthy or N25 New Ross show Waterford or Dublin aren’t drawing much, and I can’t see how Wexford, with a population just under 20,000 people can absorb so many cars). So what is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Decoda


    The traffic counter south of Oylegate peaked during the summer at close to 19,500 daily traffic volumes with peak hours showing >1500 vehicles an hour. Its next to impossible to get out of any of the side roads onto the N11. A traffic count on the R741 outside of Wexford Town recently returned an AADT of 12,000. Traffic around Wexford Towncan be chronic at times.

    According to a landowner on the proposed route, the Liaison Officer is currently working his way around all the landowners with a set of alignment drawings showing the draft road layout.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,395 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    If you're heading north or south pretty much anywhere in the county the N11 is the go to. Rosslare I'm sure adds something to the total, it's become quite busy since Brexit.

    Often wondered the same though. Where the hell is everyone going to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Update





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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    • Ground Investigation on-site works are ongoing. 

    • Environmental surveys, traffic studies and traffic modelling are ongoing. 

    • Revised return date for Archaeological Geophysical Survey Tender is 15th May 2023

    • Additional Topographical Survey Tender is expected to be published in May 2023. 

    • The overall design of the development, including bridge options is ongoing. 

    • Engagement with the ESB/EirGrid is ongoing. Drawings from ESB/EirGrid are expected to come through in early May 2023. 


    • Landowner Engagement

    Meetings with directly affected landowners took place on 3rd and 4th of April 2023 in Ferrycarrig Hotel. 

    The respond from the landowners are:  

    Total affected Landowners: 187  

    Landowners that Project Team meet over the 2 days: 124 (66%) 

    Landowners who didn’t show up for the meeting: 5 (3%) 

    Landowners who confirmed that couldn't attend: 33 (18%) 

    Landowners that Project Team couldn’t reach: 25 (13%) 


    Valuable information was collected at the meetings which will help to finalise the design, which is required to determine the Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO)



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    • Ground Investigation on-site works are ongoing.

    • Environmental surveys, traffic studies and traffic modelling are ongoing. 

    • Pre-application consultation process with An Bord Pleanála in relation to Strategic Infrastructure Development has commenced. Meeting with An Bord Pleanála is due in coming weeks

    • Archaeological Geophysical Survey Tender is due to be awarded in coming weeks. 

    • Additional Topographical Survey Tenders are due to be returned by the end of June 2023.

    • The overall design of the development, including bridge options is substantially completed, taking into account comments received from the landowners collected on the Landowner Engagement Meetings held in April 2023.

    • Engagement with the ESB/EirGrid, Irish Rail and other stakeholders is ongoing. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Good to hear. After taking the ferry the other day I would love 2+2 to the port to get past all the caravans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭josip


    So that ye can be all on the same boat together anyway? 😀

    But I know what you mean and fully agree with you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    I’ve said this before but with SO many other substandard national roads still needing serious attention this is definitely not the worst out there-it was ALL realigned in the late 80s/90s including the Wexford bypass/ring road. Much of which is still a very decent road. If limited spending is to be prioritised then this is one that definitely can wait in my opinion



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  • Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    It is one of the direct motorway connections to the strategic ports that must be prioritised due to Brexit. That is likely why it seems it is being progressed like the Rathkeale/Foynes and Ringaskiddy motorway connections



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,395 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    If they'd gone beyond Oylgate it wouldn't be so bad. It's a constant flow in both directions in the summer,not all that better at other times.

    Rosslare has become a popular port since Brexit,and getting busier also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭geographica


    Anywhere we can see the overall design at this stage?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    @Salad Fingers The access roads within Rosslare Harbour itself is a separate project to this, but both will proceed together. My post from earlier in this thread shows the access route:

    N11/N25 - Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour [route options published] - Page 19 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

    Scroll back a couple of posts for a mockup video of the approach.

    The final design is expected late this year. So far, only the chosen route corridor is available, which you can see on this interactive map: N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour - Preferred Scheme Option (arcgis.com)

    Post edited by KrisW1001 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭geographica


    Thanks


    I was looking for this but might not be public as it progresses




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,395 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Plenty of money anyway they don't know what to do with. Might even get started this decade.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I doubt it TBH, I'd say the M11 will terminate somehow at the Barntown N25/N11 junction with 2+2 from there down to the port. I don't think we'll see M25, much as I'd like it for nerd reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I suspect N11 will be Type 1 DC for its full length, but the stretch replacing N25 will be 2+2. Traffic volumes of <7,000 AADT don’t support a Type 1 south of Wexford - honestly the type 1 Single carriageway that’s there is adequate for the traffic volume, and the only reason to proceed with a 2+2 at all is for safety, because of the high share of HGVs on this stretch - and, of course, the fact that the EU made money available for upgrading port approach-roads under TEN-T - without that grant, I don’t think anything would be done with N25 at all.

    The section of the N25 Waterford Bypass south of the Suir doesn’t meet the geometric requirements for a 120km/h speed limit, so there’s not much point in making it a motorway. I don’t think there’ll ever be a motorway in any part of Co. Waterford.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,647 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Motorway along the Wexford bypass would make no sense, it would have to be an entirely new build as the Wexford bypass would have to remain as the alternative route without motorway restrictions.

    I doubt there will be motorway along the new N11 section either. Motorway there would likely mean an at grade roundabout at the N11 N25 junction where the motorway ends. Having Type 2 north and south of that junction makes a free flow straight through more likely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The first part of the question is the cross-section: Type 1 DC, or Type 2 DC. There’s very little justification for Type 1 south of where N11 meets N25, but there’s a future-proofing argument to build the road at either side of the new Slaney estuary bridge at this standard, so maybe it’ll be Type 1 over the river, but tapering down to Type 2 fairly quickly.

    All Motorways are at least Type 1 DC, but not all Type 1 DCs are Motorways, so the second part of the question is: “motorway restricted or not?”, and here I think there’s an argument to be made for keeping the new Slaney bridge as N11, so that it can be used by all traffic, and then applying motorway restrictions at the next junction north of the new crossing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,647 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    But in that case, the first junction north of the new crossing would likely be an at grade roundabout to differentiate between different road resistrictions, as is standard elsewhere on the network. Consistent Type 2 DC would probably be better in terms of junction layouts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    @Pete_Cavan You say different “restrictions”, but the guidance is actually to use a roundabout when moving from one road cross-section to another, but most specifically between Single and Dual carriageway types. Going from a Type 1 DC under motorway restrictions to Type 1 DC all-purpose road does not require an at-grade interchange: all you need is a way to leave the road before the motorway section begins. (N11 itself at Glen of the Downs, for example).

    I was suggesting that the transition from type 2 to type 1 could be south of the crossing, but the transition from all-purpose road (N11) to motorway (M11) would be north of the crossing, but that said I actually have no problem with a motorway M11 ending at a roundabout with N25, but there are many here who think that ending a motorway at a non-freeflowing junction is an affront to nature*, so I was trying to come up with something that would work for everyone.

    I do think, if possible, the bridge should be Type 1 DC, though, because it’s really expensive to widen bridges later.

    __

    * strictly speaking, roundabouts without signals are free-flowing interchanges, but some folks just have a problem with roundabouts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭jd


    The N11 changes to the M11 seamlessly at Coyne's Cross

    The N11/N25 roundabout at the Maldron has frequent tailbacks as it is, often as far back at the roundabout for the Duncannon Road



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,647 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The N11 Coyne's Cross evolved as that over time and is riddled with legacy issues. The northern end of both the M3 and M17 are recent examples of motorway transitioning into DC and roundabouts were used for both.

    What I am saying is that there is less likely to be a roundabout for the future N11/N25 junction if the same standard of road is built both sides. If it is M11 and N25 meeting, some form of at grade junction is more likely. The other option would be to have another junction further north where the motorway would end but I don’t see why another junction would be needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,865 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Yes, up till then it went from dual carriageway to single carriageway just south of jn13.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭jd


    nc



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,647 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The legacy issues are the junctions and exits which the N11 J4 - 14 project was intended to address.



  • Registered Users Posts: 891 ✭✭✭redfacedbear


    New guidance requiring motorway services every 50km rather than 80km mean that a service area will be required on the planned road. The prep work for this and the need to design active travel measures through Wexford town are likely to delay the project somewhat.


    Incidentally, I know the consensus on here is that the motorway is likely to finish in and around Wexford with non M standard DC to Rosslare, but any mention of it from WCC in the media (this piece included) seems to only refer to motorway the whole way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I wouldn't read much into that. To a lot of people "motorway" just means any kind of road with a barrier in the middle and more than one lane each way.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭geographica


    An update

    If a services has to be within 50kms of another (and not 80kms) this would land this services area north of Wexford town I gather? What “new” requirement is this under?

    Ballyellen Lower (Circle K) to Oylegate is 50kms so maybe it has to be around there 🤷🏼‍♂️





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