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Discrepancies with dates

  • 02-11-2015 10:44pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 44


    It seems that there are many discrepancies with dates of birth, marriage and death on old documents. A certificate might give one date and then a different source might give a different date for the same event. And there are many discrepancies with the ages given in 1901 and 1911. Following are two of the examples that I have come across.

    I have a birth certificate for a person which gives her date of birth as 1887 Fourteenth December. The birth was registered on Nineteenth January 1888. She died in England in 1975 and then the date of birth is given as 23 September 1887.
    In this case for example, which date would be more reliable? Is it more likely that the relatives made a mistake with the date of birth when she died in 1975, or that an incorrect date was given intentionally or by mistake when the birth was being registered? The informant was her father who signed with an X. Was there a certain time limit within which the birth had to be registered, and if so, was there a penalty for a late registration?

    I have a Mortuary Card for a child who died in April 1910, but she is included on the 1911 census. She was born in 1904. The Mortuary Card only gives the name and date of death. It doesn't give the age or date of birth. The prayers and verses don't give any other hints. So it is possible that the card is actually for someone else who had the same name, such as an aunt. But no one has ever heard of any such person being mentioned, and there are no records of any one else, and that name was not mentioned on the 1901 census. The head of the family in 1911 could read and write. The total number of children born was the same as the number still living. Are there any possible explanations for this mystery?


Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    In the first case, the birth cert is more likely to be right. There was a penalty for late registration but they were well inside it registering the birth a month after. In this case, I would try to find a baptism record to correspond, because you can't baptise a child in absentia.

    In the second case, I would think a second child in the extended family with the same name, cousin, etc is mostly likely. The census only recorded people present on the night in question, not children who died the year before.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 44 hugedinosaur


    Thanks for that.
    I still have to find out how to get church records, but I intend to do that if possible.

    But in the first case, would three or four months have been too late? if the real date of birth was September, would they have said it was December to avoid a penalty? What would the penalty have been? Was it a fine?

    In the second case, I forgot to mention that the child on the 1911 census was a daughter of the head of the family and the age was given as 6. The mortuary card is in good condition and it is very clear that it is 1910 and not some other year such as 1916 or 18.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 44 hugedinosaur


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    In the second case, I would think a second child in the extended family with the same name, cousin, etc is mostly likely. The census only recorded people present on the night in question, not children who died the year before.

    Thanks. I also forgot to say that the 1910 mortuary card gave the townland address and this was the homeplace of the family. We don't know of any other person with the same name but it could be possible. Maybe church records will shed some light on this also.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    On the subject of discrepancies, I have a newspaper birth notice of a son born to my g-g-grandparents?
    However, it was actually their daughter that was born at this time.
    I wonder does this error occur very often?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Where was the child born? Rootsireland may well have a 1906 baptism on it. The penalty was a fine and (not 100% sure) I think it was 3 months to complete registration.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3 valeriekerr


    A lot of people exaggerated their age in the 1911 census as old age pensions were introduced before 1911 and official records were not kept before 1864, so there were no birth certificates for anyone born before 1864.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    A lot of people exaggerated their age in the 1911 census as old age pensions were introduced before 1911 and official records were not kept before 1864, so there were no birth certificates for anyone born before 1864.

    This isn't quite true. While pensions did start in 1908, being 70 or over was not the only qualification, and far fewer people aged themselves up because of it.

    The actual reason for age discrepancies is ignorance. People just did a rough guess because actual age wasn't important yet.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    There is a well known phenomenon of 'age rounding' in census data - particularly in areas of low literacy or records. Some people didn't know their actual age as birthdays weren't celebrated. See http://bit.ly/1iO4BT1 for an discussion of age rounding in Canadian & US census.


  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭VirginiaB


    I would not spend a split second worrying about dates, especially in the 19c and especially birth dates. As others have noted, they didn't know, they didn't care, there was no birth cert or reliable birth cert, they fibbed, they rounded, they guessed, they thought it was none of the government's business anyway.

    All we poor souls today can do is gather as much data as possible and make our own best guess. I think baptisms are probably closest to an accurate date.

    As for a dead child being listed as alive in the census, I have a similar suspected case in my family. I can well imagine an anguished parent, asked to list the children, including a deceased child.


  • Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭cobham


    You could check to see if a death was registered for that time? or follow up and get the death certificate?

    A RC baptism generally took place within days of birth, the mother not necessarily being present so it is a good guide to date of birth.

    When a death is registered it might be done by some non family person such as the manager of a care home. The exact date of birth may not be accurate if no other papers such as a passport, driver's licence to back up a date


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    There are no records that can be absolutely guaranteed.
    There are errors which are obvious, such as a baptism record which shows both parents being female, (the PP was the father's brother, and probably not left short of refreshments), or a school record which shows a child being confirmed before first communion (respectable nuns).
    There are other records which we suspect to be erroneous, some can be proved false through circumstantial evidence.
    The great majority of errors are not visibly wrong, therefore we must treat every record with caution, and try to verify through other sources. In many cases, we have to balance the conflicting evidence, and making a fair judgement. In all these cases be open with the evidence.
    As for the possibility of a number of families with the same name in a townland, the valuation books will reveal this. Griffiths primary valuation is on the internet, and the revision books are available at the Valuation Office, Irish Life Centre, Lower Abbey Street, Dublin 1


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