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Labour the most popular party

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135

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    #62
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Sand wrote: »
    @dlofnep


    Is that all you have got in response? Thats it? Waste your own time in denial if you want.

    Considering your post was even less insightful, I find that a little bit hypocritical.


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    #63
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    The Labour party wants to reverse the public sector pay cuts. This amounts to a pay-rise: their goal is that public sector pay will be higher in their term than it is now. Saying this isn't a pay rise is just playing with words, in my opinion.

    It's not a pay-rise. It's not playing with words.


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    #64
    edellc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    yep

    rent supplement is too high people do milk the system but not everyone some of the paycuts should be reversed but the PS needs to be cut or if not cut used more efficiently if most of them worked in the private sector they would of gotten a P45 by now
    I dont agree with Labour in power on their own as I dont agree with the whining unions but i do think enough is enough with FF
    There are a lot of Ross O'Carroll Kelly types out there with more money than sense who do not pay what they should be thanks to creative accounting (i was an underpaid accounting technician and seen it in action wont work in accounts anymore makes me sick)


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    #65
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Sand wrote: »
    @Taxipete


    It does when it is accepted and endorsed by the Labour party by their own internal mechanisms in their own conference to decide their own policies. It is the Labour Party after all, not the Gilmore Party. Gilmore has accepted it as policy.



    I havent heard Gilmore have an opinion on the Croke Park deal, water charges or the resignation of Cardinal Brady either. Why should I be surprised they he has no expressed view on the restoration of PS wages?

    Gilmore is terrified of expressing a view on anything. He is for it and against it, just like Bertie.



    See above. Labour are for it and against it apparently.



    Of course, because Labour are terrified of actually having an opinion or a view on anything that is more than a vague denouncement of "unfairness".



    Like I said, terrified. Hounding them on it? Labour should be able to spell out and defend their views and policies - they shouldnt be afraid to reveal them for fear that the media meanies might laugh at them. Its the media's job to "hound" politicians and force them to explain and defend their politics.



    So youve got a top down view of society in Labour then? Gilmore runs his kingdom, the little people and activists get a chance to vote on things, which are promptly ignored?

    The evasion is typical. Labour are for pay rises for the public sector, but theyre also against it too. Its basically Fianna Fail 2.0.

    Read my post on what was contained in the motion itself. You see it sometimes pays to look for something yourself instead of just taking a journos word for it.

    Labour scares economic liberals and without any real justifacation. Labours record is very favourable to the business community( without which we aint getting out of this hole)


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    #66
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    This document linked earlier, while not specific enough for my liking, actually has many solid ideas in it.

    If they were able to combine these ideas with a firm stance on public sector pay and redundancies, then I don't see why a vote for them should not be considered.

    I think the public is waking up to the fact there is an alternative to FF and FG, not a particularly brilliant alternative, but an alternative none-the-less. Labour's popularity in recent polls may actually turn out to be beneficial to FG as they'll finally realise they have their work cut out trying to sell their ideas, some of which are also pretty good, to the nation. A more charismatic figurehead is needed if they want to do well.


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    #67
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    Great news for Ireland as a whole. Labour could break 55 seats on those figures. A left wing alliance could be on the cards. Either that or Enda Kenny as Tanaiste.


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    #68
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,637 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    the attack dogs will be unleashed...

    by the next poll Labour's rating will have gone down quite a bit.


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    #69
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    edellc wrote: »
    yep

    rent supplement is too high people do milk the system but not everyone some of the paycuts should be reversed but the PS needs to be cut or if not cut used more efficiently if most of them worked in the private sector they would of gotten a P45 by now
    I dont agree with Labour in power on their own as I dont agree with the whining unions but i do think enough is enough with FF
    There are a lot of Ross O'Carroll Kelly types out there with more money than sense who do not pay what they should be thanks to creative accounting (i was an underpaid accounting technician and seen it in action wont work in accounts anymore makes me sick)

    I don't even know where to start on the stuff you post... i think it's better just to leave it alone..


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    #70
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    Great news for Ireland as a whole. Labour could break 55 seats on those figures. A left wing alliance could be on the cards. Either that or Enda Kenny as Tanaiste.

    Would be a great day for Irish politics if we could break the FG/FF doupoloy on power.

    Regardless of your political views I think we all would appreciate that the country could do with a serous shake up after 80 years of conservative rule. Prehaps it would help focus Irish minds on idealolgoy a little bit more and less on parish pump/liveline politics.


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    #71
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Threads merged - apologies for any confusion.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #72
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    dlofnep wrote: »
    It's not a pay-rise. It's not playing with words.

    ? ? ? Is the opposite of up not down anymore ? Is the reversal of a paycut not a payrise ?

    Gilmore is closely linked to the Unions and is personally in receipt of political donations from SIPTU. In fact, SIPTU made E67k in political donations in 2009. How much of this do you think went to the Labour Party . .??

    Assuming this poll data is accurate (which I don't really believe btw) I think that Gilmore and Labour have peaked too early. . The whole country can see now that it is time for FG to replace Enda Kenny . . . If they do, then expect an immediate recovery under the leadership of Richard Bruton . . .

    FF are also in deeper trouble than I had previously believed (again, if you accept this data) and it looks like their core vote is beginning to erode . . I believe it might now be appropriate for Cowen to pass the reins in FF . .

    A general election in 2012 with new leadership in both FF and FG will see Labour back where they belong in third place.


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    #73
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    Welease wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0610/politics.html

    Tomorrow Irish Times poll..

    "
    Labour has become the most popular political party in the country for the first time ever, according to an opinion poll in tomorrow's Irish Times.
    The Ipsos MRBI poll for tomorrow's Irish Times also shows a slump in backing for Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, and for their leaders.
    The poll, taken on Tuesday and yesterday, doesn't fully reflect the impact of the banking reports, but shows a five-point slump in Fianna Fáil support since January, leaving that party on just 17%.
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    But Fine Gael are down as well, dropping four points to 28%.
    That party is up eight points to 32%; the Greens are unchanged at 3%, Sinn Féin gain one to 9%, and Independents are unchanged at 11%.
    Eamon Gilmore also has the highest satisfaction rating of 46%, while satisfaction with Brian Cowen is down 8% to 18%, while Enda Kenny drops 7% to 24%.
    Satisfaction with the Government is also down since January, by 7% to 12%, while 83% say they're dissatisfied.
    Taoiseach Brian Cowen has insisted that the Government will run for its full term despite a new opinion poll showing a dramatic drop in Fianna Fáil support
    Speaking tonight on RTE's Prime Time programme, Mr Cowen said he would not walk away from Government and would make what he called the tough decisions on the economy.
    He said people would be able to choose a new government once the current one had run its term."


    God help us.. If nothing else, my rants this evening about the idiot Irish voters have been vindicated beyond my wildest beliefs ;)
    32%to vote labour , 30% in negative equity, 35% in mortgage difficulty, seems that 30 something % of our population are in big big sh1t and want vote labour into government to bring rest in with them


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    #74
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    hallelujajordan wrote: »
    ? ? ? Is the opposite of up not down anymore ? Is the reversal of a paycut not a payrise ?

    Gilmore is closely linked to the Unions and is personally in receipt of political donations from SIPTU. In fact, SIPTU made E67k in political donations in 2009. How much of this do you think went to the Labour Party . .??

    Assuming this poll data is accurate (which I don't really believe btw) I think that Gilmore and Labour have peaked too early. . The whole country can see now that it is time for FG to replace Enda Kenny . . . If they do, then expect an immediate recovery under the leadership of Richard Bruton . . .

    FF are also in deeper trouble than I had previously believed (again, if you accept this data) and it looks like their core vote is beginning to erode . . I believe it might now be appropriate for Cowen to pass the reins in FF . .

    A general election in 2012 with new leadership in both FF and FG will see Labour back where they belong in third place.


    Fine Gael problem is not Enda Kenny , its the fact it stands for almost the same thing as Fianna Fail. Centre-right and less corrupt.
    Ireland would be better if both parties formed a christian democrat alliance.
    Then the voter would have an option of a left or right.


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    #75
    Anonymous1987
    Closed Accounts Posts: 784 ✭✭✭Anonymous1987


    My initial thoughts were that this was a backlash against FG. Lately it seems like FG were trying to capitalise on the anger for FF by adopting what they thought were populist policies, in particular the bizarre anti-EU position they took recently. Following this they were accused of basing their policies on findings from focus groups. Maybe people are disillusioned and feel its worth giving someone else a try. Also their has been increasing attention in some aspects of the media for a more left wing government so maybe this has influenced the polls. Time will tell when actual policy issues are discussed and both Labour and Gilmore are put under the spotlight if they can offer a viable alternative which consists of something other than expenditure.


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    #76
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Papers need to stop treating opinion polls like things that matter.


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    #77
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,149 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    That's it. How do we force the government to include a 'None of the above - disband the parliament and hire an operations manager with a proven track record in the private sector to run the country within it's means' option on the ballot sheet?

    Such strong endorsement of a party who's economic intelligence is defined by the policy of 'if we borrow enough, we can spend our way out of the problems we have that were created by excessive borrowing and expenditure' is proof positive that the Irish people aren't capable of governing ourselves. Lets hire a German to run the place for us.


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    #78
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    Sleepy wrote: »
    . Lets hire a German to run the place for us.


    ze German have already taken over;) and rightly so, the mess these shower of gombeen's have us in.

    For all the pleasure it gives me to see Labour polled as No1 and the posts here from the usual ...........(not you) getting upset about Labour I have to say one thing

    IT IS ONLY A POLL,

    FF still run the country and FG are still the unemployed twin brother living at home with his ma......


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    #79
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    LOL at the FF number.


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    #80
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    amacachi wrote: »
    LOL at the FF number.

    I'm not. It's still far too high. :(


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    #81
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    hmmm wrote: »
    32% of the population think there is a magic pot of money available to bail us out.


    I dont believe thats what the poll means, its not who are you most likely to vote for, its how do you think the leader of each party is doing.


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    #82
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I'm not. It's still far too high. :(
    I'm LOLing at how someone decided to publish it, they'll never go below 20, I'd be massively surprised if they went much below 30 tbh.


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    #83
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I'm not. It's still far too high. :(

    Considering the blind adherence people show, its very, very low indeed. Down to near the hard, hard core.


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    #84
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Nodin wrote: »
    Considering the blind adherence people show, its very, very low indeed. Down to near the hard, hard core.

    I agree. But that's still too high, because there should be no hard core.


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    #85
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    meditraitor wrote: »
    FF still run the country and FG are still the unemployed twin brother living at home with his ma......

    I think you left out an "i" there. Hint : 3rd word

    And it's funny that you should use that as an analogy for FG; I mean, following FF's last 10 years, the above would mean that FG should be perfectly in tune with many of the country's ordinary people.


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    #86
    Sulmac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭Sulmac


    Brilliant news for Labour, and truly a historic poll (even if it is only a poll!).

    FG will be worried, and the past few polls coupled with Bruton on Prime Time last night means Enda Kenny (who I don't mind, but acknowledge is holding the party back, whether we like it or not) should be worried.

    Another disaster for FF, the "core vote" shrinking all the time.

    It's clear that the next election will be a three-way race, regardless or not Labour hold on to their support here (which I doubt they will).

    RTÉ will have a hard time justifying excluding Labour from a leader's debate with FF and FG now!


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    #87
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Sleepy wrote: »
    That's it. How do we force the government to include a 'None of the above - disband the parliament and hire an operations manager with a proven track record in the private sector to run the country within it's means' option on the ballot sheet?

    Such strong endorsement of a party who's economic intelligence is defined by the policy of 'if we borrow enough, we can spend our way out of the problems we have that were created by excessive borrowing and expenditure' is proof positive that the Irish people aren't capable of governing ourselves. Lets hire a German to run the place for us.


    I really can't abide this loser racist attitude that says because we are Irish we cant do anything right. Speak for yourself!

    Do you feel Irish people are racially inferior? Culturally inferior perhaps?

    The Irish people are well capable of governing ourselves.

    We still live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

    The structures we have are completely out of date, however. Labour have some radical ideas for changing those structures.

    Perhaps you feel Ireland will prove its ability to govern itself by voting for FG?


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    #88
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Sulmac wrote: »
    Brilliant news for Labour, and truly a historic poll (even if it is only a poll!).

    FG will be worried, and the past few polls coupled with Bruton on Prime Time last night means Enda Kenny (who I don't mind, but acknowledge is holding the party back, whether we like it or not) should be worried.

    Another disaster for FF, the "core vote" shrinking all the time.

    It's clear that the next election will be a three-way race, regardless or not Labour hold on to their support here (which I doubt they will).

    RTÉ will have a hard time justifying excluding Labour from a leader's debate with FF and FG now!

    I heard a pundit on the radio saying that a full term for the current government and Kenny to remain as FG leader would suit Labour (purely in terms of seat winning capacity).

    They still are putting in place the candidate infrastructure and are well behind FG and particularly FF here. Another two years would see them catch up a lot.

    An ineterseting idea mentioned was that Labour may win a majority of seats on the East coast with a significant minority in other areas. Could be an East/West divide.


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    #89
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    My votes for the IMF. And the sooner the better because my tea is getting cold.


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    #90
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    hallelujajordan wrote: »
    ? ? ? Is the opposite of up not down anymore ? Is the reversal of a paycut not a payrise ?

    Gilmore is closely linked to the Unions and is personally in receipt of political donations from SIPTU. In fact, SIPTU made E67k in political donations in 2009. How much of this do you think went to the Labour Party . .??

    Assuming this poll data is accurate (which I don't really believe btw) I think that Gilmore and Labour have peaked too early. . The whole country can see now that it is time for FG to replace Enda Kenny . . . If they do, then expect an immediate recovery under the leadership of Richard Bruton . . .

    FF are also in deeper trouble than I had previously believed (again, if you accept this data) and it looks like their core vote is beginning to erode . . I believe it might now be appropriate for Cowen to pass the reins in FF . .

    A general election in 2012 with new leadership in both FF and FG will see Labour back where they belong in third place.

    Im not even sure that it needs that. Labour are the easy party to go with. They dont offend, and have not nailed their colours to any mast.

    FG are slowly but surely losing support which has been gaining since 2004. If Kenny leaves, he can be proud of what he has done, and he has re-established FG as a party which is capable of standing on it's own two feet again. However, his performance over the past year has been poor. The loss of George Lee has hit the party hard. This posed a stern question of Kenny's leadership, and it would appear that he failed to respond to those questions in a robust fashion.

    Cowen has never had the country behind him. He has lost the support of the nation and vast swaths of his party. The recent reports were a damning indictment of his time in Finance, which is reflective of poor performances in Health and Labour. Unless Lenihan takes over, there is little there to replace him. I think FF are in huge trouble before the next election, and this will manifest itself in heavy losses in the city, only mitiigated by the rural vote holding up.


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    #91
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    T runner wrote: »
    I really can't abide this loser racist attitude that says because we are Irish we cant do anything right. Speak for yourself!

    Do you feel Irish people are racially inferior? Culturally inferior perhaps?

    The Irish people are well capable of governing ourselves.

    We still live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

    The structures we have are completely out of date, however. Labour have some radical ideas for changing those structures.

    Perhaps you feel Ireland will prove its ability to govern itself by voting for FG?

    This loser attitude as you refer to it is as a result of years of government members refusing to resign and be held accountable for their incompetent decision making and then going on to make more incompetent decisions.

    When found out, simply reshuffle your cabinet for no good reason since few have any specialites in the departments they are in charge of.

    I don't have this attitude but its easy to see why others have and it isn't because they are losers but because they are sick of Irish politicians and the manner they behave and the way the country is being run.

    They are also sick of parish pump politics. The Irish are in no way inferior, we just have a sick system that needs changing.


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