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NAS

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  • 30-04-2015 10:29am
    #1
    mrhappy42
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭


    I have requirementfor a NAS.

    Storage needs.

    -5t for music and video. Not mirrored. Part backup onto other system.

    - 3t for photos, docs that I do not want to loose. Mirrored in the nas. Separate backup.

    -1t for backup of pcs and laptops. Not mirrored. Might not even backup.

    Key requirements.

    - stream media to teenagers
    - keep essential things secure and save.
    - somewhat reseanable in price and esp running costs.


    Was thinking if a asustor as54004t with 4, 3t wd red drives with the 3 year warranty.


    Thoughts?


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    #2
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    The AsusTor line looks interesting. I'd probably spend the extra money for the App support and compatibility of the synology line. I'd then raid5 four 4tb disks and do a complete incremental off-site backup to a cloud service of your choice. I'm waiting for synology to get Amazon's cloud drive working with their systems(60$ a year unlimited).


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    #3
    AndersLimpar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭AndersLimpar


    I had very similar needs to you. I currently have a DS414 with 4*4TB drives inside of it with evertlything from PC's, laptop's, media, photos etc backed up to it.

    This is then all backed up to the cloud (Crashplan Unlimited - €60 per year). Initial backup to the cloud took about 5 months so be aware of that. I used loads of external loads HDDs to back up the important stuff on the NAS while uploading to the cloud.

    What are you going to use to serve the media? I'd highly recommend Plex, its super at what it does. I built a plex server with second hand parts for transcoding. Cost about €140 total and it runs with ease, would be lost without it!!


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    #4
    mrhappy42
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrhappy42


    - Did not know about the backup in the cloud for the $50 or $60 a year will do that. Great advice. That will drive the NAS as it needs that support.

    - Not going with RAID 5 on a 3 or 4T disk, best to mirror. Time to rebuild and %age of a bit being incorrect is to big. I'm sure the new solutions to this are being invented, maybe raid at the platter level.

    - The NAS should be able to serve 1080p (not pushed about 4k video, you would need an i3 and then the NAS is getting too expensive)

    I've been using this site a bit, http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/rankers/nas/ranking/RAID5/rev5/38. Then looked for youtube videos of 1080p for the various NAS setups. Also had a look at the mobile apps.

    Anyway the above site has a bunch of machines ranked, the above link is for video throughput.

    * Video

    Strip anything above 4 bay, then sort by price and you get.
    - the Thecus which from what I can see cant handle decoding well. So they are out.
    - The older Asustor series. ignore.
    - The one I mentioned above (AS5004T) (listed as #2 in video) (HDMI out)
    - DS415Play the series mentioned above (listed as joint #2 in video) (NO HDMI out) price difference of $50.
    For another $50 again you get the QNAP TS-451 (HDMI out)

    * Performance

    Looking at the wider NAS, read/write times etc. then the AS5004T comes in 6, QNAP 8 and the Synology 12.

    I'm still leaning towards the AS5004T as not sure if memory can be upgraded for the DS415Play. However I'm in two minds.


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    #5
    AndersLimpar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭AndersLimpar


    From my own experience - I originally bought the Play model of the NAS and it didn't work with Plex very well in that it cant transcode 1080p files fast enough (lower but rate ones it can) to deliver a smooth unbuffered video. If your tv is able to natively play the files then thats fine and you wont need plex but phones, tablets and will need it and your tv wont be able to play all files either.

    I see you mention that you are looking at HDMI out - i think this is a waste as the NAS is networked anyway (i have the NAS in the attic and use homeplugs to connect to it) so you can stream everything from it. Although I suppose if your TV can't play a particular file then the HDMI out is handy if its a file the NAS supports. This means though you are limited on what devices you can play stuff on as phones/tablets etc have difficulty with a lot of file formats and would require transcoding - not to mention if your bandwiudth is clogged then you will need to transcode to a smaller file size.

    Anyway, as my setup originally didnt do what I wanted it to do I sold the Play NAS and went down a different route. I bought the cheapest 4 bay synology NAS aI could find (ended up with a ds414) as it was only going to be for file storage and nothing else. I built a cheap server PC that sits beside it and connected them both to my UPC router. I could have used wireless but I think wired is much more reliable so I used TP-Link powerline adaptors to do this. Now the server PC runs Crashplan backup, google music, bittorrent, my ftp server and Plex without a bother and all the files/media is stored on the NAS. I use Teamviewer to connect to Server PC whenever I need to but 99% of the time it just runs away itself. The PC parts are below if you were interested in doing something similar.

    CPU - Intel Pentium G3258 - New
    MOBO - ASUS A81 Micro ATX - New
    MEMORY - 2 x 2GB RAM DDR - Second Hand (Adverts)
    HDD - WD Scorpio 160GB 7200 3.5" - Second Hand (Adverts)
    CASE - Antec NSK1380 Case - Second Hand (Adverts)
    Total - €145

    The PC parts and the powerline adaptors do add a bit extra to the total (about €200 in total) but from my experience and the frustration trying to get the Play NAS to do what I wanted it to do, it is worth every penny. It simply plays everything all the time now. I think if you go down the NAS only route then you are in for a frustrating time unless you get one of the high end NAS's with i3 etc but you are talking serious dosh then. The G3258 above can transcode two 1080p movies without skipping a beat so is perfect for most people.

    Best of luck - it's pretty confusing!!!


  • Options
    #6
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    mrhappy42 wrote: »
    - Did not know about the backup in the cloud for the $50 or $60 a year will do that. Great advice. That will drive the NAS as it needs that support.

    - Not going with RAID 5 on a 3 or 4T disk, best to mirror. Time to rebuild and %age of a bit being incorrect is to big. I'm sure the new solutions to this are being invented, maybe raid at the platter level.

    It's a home NAS, not a enterprise SAN. Raid 5 with a accessible backup is more then adequate for your needs and would provide reasonable throughput and redundancy.
    mrhappy42 wrote: »
    - The NAS should be able to serve 1080p (not pushed about 4k video, you would need an i3 and then the NAS is getting too expensive)

    1080p transcoding needs close enough to a i3 at times. I'd be surprised if any NAS you have looked at could comfortably do all 1080p files. I set up a Rasberry Pi 2 on the back of the TV to avoid those issues.
    mrhappy42 wrote: »
    I've been using this site a bit, http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/rankers/nas/ranking/RAID5/rev5/38. Then looked for youtube videos of 1080p for the various NAS setups. Also had a look at the mobile apps.

    Anyway the above site has a bunch of machines ranked, the above link is for video throughput.

    * Video

    Strip anything above 4 bay, then sort by price and you get.
    - the Thecus which from what I can see cant handle decoding well. So they are out.
    - The older Asustor series. ignore.
    - The one I mentioned above (AS5004T) (listed as #2 in video) (HDMI out)
    - DS415Play the series mentioned above (listed as joint #2 in video) (NO HDMI out) price difference of $50.
    For another $50 again you get the QNAP TS-451 (HDMI out)

    * Performance

    Looking at the wider NAS, read/write times etc. then the AS5004T comes in 6, QNAP 8 and the Synology 12.

    I'm still leaning towards the AS5004T as not sure if memory can be upgraded for the DS415Play. However I'm in two minds.

    I've never seen my Synology go over 1gig, memory shouldn't be a concern in a proper NAS. I think there is a hidden cost in functionality, the Synology app support is unreal compared to competitors and tends to justify the cost.


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    #7
    mrhappy42
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrhappy42


    I have a PI? What are you running on it? XMBC?

    What about mobile phones and tables? You doing the encoding on the clients? MX Player etc?

    Streaming tends to be done on devices more than the TV.

    Ease of use and stability is important, i.e if things crash, skip, hard to find things, loosing connections is very important and finding it hard to get some real feedback on these things from websites.

    Just reading the Plex forum, they have a big spreadsheet with NAS support information. Going to read that now.

    Getting close to a decision, appreciate the feedback.


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    #8
    mrhappy42
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrhappy42


    Quick follow up question.

    On the Synology do all media apps point to the same folders? I have seen some NAS, for example the old LG the DNLA needs video in specific directories. That meant I need to copy the video files into two places (one for each app).


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    #9
    mrhappy42
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrhappy42


    Great article.

    https://forums.plex.tv/index.php/topic/154841-asustor-nass-and-the-minimum-requirements-for-transcoding-what-content/


  • Options
    #10
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    mrhappy42 wrote: »
    I have a PI? What are you running on it? XMBC?

    What about mobile phones and tables? You doing the encoding on the clients? MX Player etc?

    Streaming tends to be done on devices more than the TV.

    Ease of use and stability is important, i.e if things crash, skip, hard to find things, loosing connections is very important and finding it hard to get some real feedback on these things from websites.

    Just reading the Plex forum, they have a big spreadsheet with NAS support information. Going to read that now.

    Getting close to a decision, appreciate the feedback.

    Openelec, no transcoding needed. Will happily do 1080p files.

    Transcoding is a contentious issue with NAS devices. Honest answer is you really need a new core I3 or above to run a decent Plex server. But they tend to run hot and use a lot of juice.
    mrhappy42 wrote: »
    Quick follow up question.

    On the Synology do all media apps point to the same folders? I have seen some NAS, for example the old LG the DNLA needs video in specific directories. That meant I need to copy the video files into two places (one for each app).

    No idea, I just use Plex not the native app.


  • Options
    #11
    AndersLimpar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭AndersLimpar


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Openelec, no transcoding needed. Will happily do 1080p files.

    Transcoding is a contentious issue with NAS devices. Honest answer is you really need a new core I3 or above to run a decent Plex server. But they tend to run hot and use a lot of juice.



    No idea, I just use Plex not the native app.
    Not true. The Intel Pentium G3258 I use is more than adequate to transcode a 1080p file. I've tested it transcoding a 1080p file to one device while serving another 1080p file to the TV and it worked fine. It can transcode 2 x 720p files at the same time while serving another without issue too. Obviously if you have ridiculously high bit rate files then this may differ but regular ripped BR works fine.


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    #12
    mrhappy42
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭mrhappy42


    What about something like this for the 'PC' part of what you describe above.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eggsnow-Aluminum-Fanless-Haswell-Desktop/dp/B00VUTOAII/ref=sr_1_6?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1430768337&sr=1-6&keywords=pc+hdmi+i3

    Processor:Intel Core i3 4010U 1.7Ghz
    Memory:4GB(Support Dual Channel NB Memory SO-DIMM DDR3L,Maximum to 16GB RAM, 2 x 8GB)
    Hard Drive:60GB(1 x Mini PCIE Msata SSD),HDD(Not Include),Operating System(Not Include)
    Hard Drive:Support 1 x Mini PCIE Msata SSD + 1 x 2.5
    Mini PC Rear I/O:DC 12V,HDMI,VGA,Gigabit LAN,USB 2.0 x 2,USB 3.0 x 4,MIC Input,SPK Output


  • Options
    #13
    AndersLimpar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭AndersLimpar


    mrhappy42 wrote: »
    What about something like this for the 'PC' part of what you describe above.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eggsnow-Aluminum-Fanless-Haswell-Desktop/dp/B00VUTOAII/ref=sr_1_6?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1430768337&sr=1-6&keywords=pc+hdmi+i3

    Processor:Intel Core i3 4010U 1.7Ghz
    Memory:4GB(Support Dual Channel NB Memory SO-DIMM DDR3L,Maximum to 16GB RAM, 2 x 8GB)
    Hard Drive:60GB(1 x Mini PCIE Msata SSD),HDD(Not Include),Operating System(Not Include)
    Hard Drive:Support 1 x Mini PCIE Msata SSD + 1 x 2.5
    Mini PC Rear I/O:DC 12V,HDMI,VGA,Gigabit LAN,USB 2.0 x 2,USB 3.0 x 4,MIC Input,SPK Output

    Plex really requires processing power and little else. This chip benchmarks at about 2500 which should be ok to transcode one stream but little else. The G3258 I mentioned benches over 4000 so has quite a bit more power


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