The Corrib Tape

Thoie · 05-04-2011 7:02pm

chahop wrote: »

I'm not a Guard and think this has been blown out of all proportion, as it was a private discussion between colleague's not a threat to the lady, but as for just a slap on the wrist I think they should get more.
If this was in a private company and some staff members were found to be joking about rapeing a other menber of staff or a client they would be sacked or at least supended without pay.
BTW the reporting of this has been shocking.
Just my 2c

Just to reiterate this point which seems to have been largely ignored. This was not a private conversation in someone's house after work. This was a conversation which took place between colleagues (and a superior?) who were on duty.

There is no workplace in Ireland where it would be appropriate for people to jest about raping a "client" or anyone else.

Spacedog · 05-04-2011 7:06pm

So... eh, the woman holding the camera... why was she arrested again?

Mr Jinx · 05-04-2011 7:33pm

How many times have people made a throw away comment during a conversation about wanting to "kill" someone, be they a co worker, boss, or member of the public. Wouldnt be given a second thought.

discus · 05-04-2011 8:49pm

Thoie wrote: »

Just to reiterate this point which seems to have been largely ignored. This was not a private conversation in someone's house after work. This was a conversation which took place between colleagues (and a superior?) who were on duty.

There is no workplace in Ireland where it would be appropriate for people to jest about raping a "client" or anyone else.

If every workplace was rigid to the rules that are supposed to be followed, we would all soon become robots.

05-04-2011 8:52pm

Spacedog wrote: »

So... eh, the woman holding the camera... why was she arrested again?

Not sure. I believe she repeatedly refused to give her name to the officer (who, in fairness, warned her he would arrest her if she didn't comply). Public Order Act, i think.

Dermot Illogical · 05-04-2011 9:16pm

It's certainly been an interesting day. It's nice to see that the people of Ireland still insist on holding Gardai to superhuman standards they're unwilling/unable to achieve in their own lives. It is important that we have our constants after all.
Well done Ireland! With all that's going on in the World at the moment, you're consumed with sanctimonious indignation about two men talking sh*te in private. It's truly a great little country.

CarMuppet · 05-04-2011 9:37pm

Regardless of profession to joke about rape is horrible. I would not these guys working in my locality tbh.

I'm also very scared that a lot of lads here think it's ok too. I've been around the planet in many roles.... The only people I found to joke about rape were very dodgy people indeed.

Job stress is not an excuse. Stress is curable. See a councillor.

goldie fish · 05-04-2011 9:39pm

CarMuppet wrote: »

I'm also very scared that a lot of lads here think it's ok too. I've been around the planet in many roles.... The only people I found to joke about rape were very dodgy people indeed.

.

Tommy Tiernan

Delancey · 05-04-2011 9:41pm

Did anyone here see Martin Ferris and the Sinn Fein Justice spokesman on the RTE news ? Jesus talk of ' Dumb and Dumber ' - their Justice Spokesman comes across as the sort of moron who would be disqualified from the Dail if TD's were required to take a basic literacy test !

I would be shocked if the Gardai involved were ' disciplined ' over this nonsense - no citizen should be punished for views expressed in a private conversation.

goldie fish · 05-04-2011 9:43pm

Delancey wrote: »

Did anyone here see Martin Ferris and the Sinn Fein Justice spokesman on the RTE news ? Jesus talk of ' Dumb and Dumber ' - their Justice Spokesman comes across as the sort of moron who would be disqualified from the Dail if TD's were required to take a basic literacy test.

Which is worse, rape or terrorism?

Anywhoodle · 05-04-2011 9:46pm

ifiwasonlyrich wrote: »

a joke, and made in jest, would they have pursued in raping the woman?! Hell no!

gbee wrote: »

At no stage was rape threatened or taken seriously.

BrianD wrote: »

not a threat made in public to a member of the public. It is being wrongly spun by the protestors as a threat to members of the public.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

And that’s what exactly what it was a joke about hypothetical rape. Not a threat of or a real rape.

Obviously they weren't seriously threatening to rape anyone.. I agree it's pretty farcical that the media are spinning it that way..

IMO, that's beside the point though. These are the guys on the frontline who are the first point of contact with the justice system for rape victims. Of all people, they should know how damaging and harrowing rape is and should be among the least likely people to flippantly use it as a punchline.. Their comments give the impression that they've no real empathy for victims. You'd hope the Gardai would have an automatic, negative gut-reaction to the issue of rape, given their job, their training etc. It should be far from a joking matter for them.

cocoshovel wrote: »

Christ, I'm finding it annoying the way this is plastered everywhere in bold writing as headlines and top news stories. He just made a small crude joke that any person could of made. It wasnt even that bad when I heard it. Even my friends and I would make jokes like this quite often, infact nearly everybody I know would make a similar joke every now and then. There is no harm intended with this comment. Its just being blown massively out of proportion because a Garda said it.

Ok, I disagree that 'anyone' would joke about rape. For a lot of people, it's a bit too dark a subject.. Aside from that though, again, it is significant that Gardai are the ones who come into direct contact with devastated rape victims. They're specially trained to handle these difficult, sensitive cases. Surely, that should have some impact on their way of thinking? If you come into contact with any grievous situation and witness the consequences first-hand, the v.last thing you'll do is trivialise it into a casual joke? You'd expect the Gardai would be far too mindful of the grim realities of rape to make light of it..? IMO, the whole thing just suggests that these lads don't really relate to the issue.. Otherwise, they'd have given more serious thought to their comments..

professore wrote: »

To be fair, I think you have unreasonable expectations. Of course they should not joke about something like this and should get a telling off but in the context of the conversation, which they assumed was in private, it was a stupid thing to say. Even the other guard said "I wouldn't go that far Jim" obviously seeing it was an inappropriate comment.

He didn't say he 'wouldn't go that far' because it was an inappropriate comment. He said he 'wouldn't go that far' because he'd probably catch something from the 'crusty'! I figure that probably won't help their case either! *face-palm*

LeixlipRed · 05-04-2011 9:49pm

Whenever the boys in blue surpass themselves in the public eye one can always be guaranteed giggles in this forum. Sure, they were only a bit stressed. Mistreating women and protestors is tough work!

More stress relief here

Micky Dolenz · 05-04-2011 9:50pm

Delancey wrote: »

I would be shocked if the Gardai involved were ' disciplined ' over this nonsense - no citizen should be punished for views expressed in a private conversation.

They were on duty Gardai in a squad car on the way to book in detainees. They spoke of raping a female in their custody and dismissed it, describing her as krusty that you could catch anything from.

These weren't normal citizens telling a joke, they are in a position of authority speaking about a particular female under their care.

CarMuppet · 05-04-2011 9:59pm

goldie fish wrote: »

Tommy Tiernan

LOL is that role model cracking jokes about sexual violence in his new routines?? :rolleyes: very good.

Sorry off topic.

Just re read a few of the posts above.... Are lads here saying that cracking jokes about rape is cool / normal??

MagicSean · 05-04-2011 10:06pm

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Whenever the boys in blue surpass themselves in the public eye one can always be guaranteed giggles in this forum. Sure, they were only a bit stressed. Mistreating women and protestors is tough work!

More stress relief here

And one can always guarantee to see a supportive post from Leixlip. Don't know if you bothered to read anything about this incident but nobody was mistreated.

Hooch · 05-04-2011 10:17pm

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Whenever the boys in blue surpass themselves in the public eye one can always be guaranteed giggles in this forum. Sure, they were only a bit stressed. Mistreating women and protestors is tough work!

More stress relief here

One warning and one only. Nobody mistreated anyone in the related case. Your link has nothing to do with this incident - stay on topic, do not troll or else refrain from posting.

pokerface_me · 05-04-2011 10:34pm

Lads there is joking and joking. Rape is not funny. If one of you members here overheard me joking with a mate in a private conversation, ahh i think i'll rape that ban-Garda over there hahaha.

Wouldn't think you Guys would find it so funny all of a sudden. I'd imagine i be on the recieving end of a trip to the local barracks and a fairly sharp court apperence with God knows what charge.

Spacedog · 05-04-2011 10:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure. I believe she repeatedly refused to give her name to the officer (who, in fairness, warned her he would arrest her if she didn't comply). Public Order Act, i think.

Public Order Act specifies that a Garda believes someone has committed an offence, they can ask their name and address, and arrest them if they believe they are not telling the truth?

Does the wording of this law not mean that mean in practise that Gardai have the power to arrest anyone they like for no reason, and are accountable only to specify their beliefs on the matter?

I find this case disturbing because this seems to be the case here. tensions between the protesters and Gardai have run high here in the past. Because of this it appears the Gardai are highly concerned with their personal liability with regard to them following difficult orders from up on high. And because of past videos of Garda brutality against the protesters published on youtube etc, they appear to consider a free citizen filming their actions as a threat.

Protesters use their cameras as protection, they believe that Shell have attained the rights to build the corrib pipeline by bribing our corrupt politicians, and that our own constitutionally defined natural resources have been swindled from us. They see proof of Shell doing similar things in Nigera, where the local authorities murdered protesters in cold blood, proof of corruption from sources like the wikileaks cables. They genuinely ask themselves if our government is as corrupt, if our authorities could be as brutal.

The relationship between the Gardai and many irish people is eroded by the bitterness caused by how they are seen to treat and marginalise these people, they are not criminals, they are passionate people who believe they are doing the right thing.

If you arrest someone innocent for holding a camera, and then are recorded justifying the arrest to get your story straight, then joke about them having STDs, being an immigrant, and laughing at the idea of raping them, the lesson learned should not be "be sure to make sure recording equipment is in the boot and off from no on lads". It is that you need to have a little more respect for the powers that has been entrusted to you.

Stuff like this will only lead to changes in law, powers being curtailed and the Gardas job being more dangerous.

--sorry for the rant.

eroo · 05-04-2011 10:58pm

I suppose everyone is glad to point out the faults these Gardai had in their private conversation?

Yet you will gladly sweep all of their good deeds under the carpet? Such as arresting the sort of people you would walk across the street to avoid; dealing with road accidents that would lead most to sleep with the light on; getting assaulted in the course of their duties; bringing cases before a system that favours the criminal... I could go on, but I wont. Because most of you wont care.

I, for one, hope those members are not scapegoated to appease the protesters in Mayo(who aren't from Mayo strangely).

Delancey · 05-04-2011 11:01pm

pokerface_me wrote: »

Lads there is joking and joking. Rape is not funny. If one of you members here overheard me joking with a mate in a private conversation, ahh i think i'll rape that ban-Garda over there hahaha.

Wouldn't think you Guys would find it so funny all of a sudden. I'd imagine i be on the recieving end of a trip to the local barracks and a fairly sharp court apperence with God knows what charge.

The conversation was between a number of Guards - the female prisoners were in another vehicle , they were never threatened with rape - just ' terribly offended ' when they heard the tape.

What man can hand on heart say he has never had an ' inappropriate ' converstaion with other men about women ??

The PC brigade are holding Gardai to unrealistic standards - this whole business is a crock of crap.

Seth Brundle · 05-04-2011 11:04pm

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

I guess it comes down to being more careful in the environment you speak in, at the moment for instance using a public computer, there's a team of techies sniffing what I post.

Why would it occur to someone to use rape as a means of threat - even as a joke?

ifiwasonlyrich wrote: »

I agree with ye all. Although, you'll get the feminist screaming "you can't joke about rape", and granted, no you can't, but not in the context they were saying. Due to all the genuine corrupt members of policing, I think the lads did as is, a joke, and made in jest, would they have pursued in raping the woman?! Hell no!
I did have to snigger myself a bit when I read the transcript "Will ya be me friend on facebook"......

Whatever about Facebook, its pretty perverse for it to occur to a friend or colleague to rape someone.
I'll be the first to say that some young one is a ride or whatever. It wouldn't occur to me to have a joke with the lads about raping her though.

gbee wrote: »

Listen again. A comment comes up about being deported. Then 'and raped' and afer this the male locker room banter began.

At no stage was rape threatened or taken seriously.

Maybe thats actually a problem within?

Just out of curiosity, how many female gardai would make the same joke?
Also, how many women who have been raped and were not sure if they had the courage to come forwards, won't now? Do you have to think about the number and if so what does that say?

05-04-2011 11:11pm

pokerface_me wrote: »

Lads there is joking and joking. Rape is not funny. If one of you members here overheard me joking with a mate in a private conversation, ahh i think i'll rape that ban-Garda over there hahaha.

Wouldn't think you Guys would find it so funny all of a sudden. I'd imagine i be on the recieving end of a trip to the local barracks and a fairly sharp court apperence with God knows what charge.

That's a good point. I have a fairly sick sense of humour but the context they used the rape term in was not at all funny. Take your name and address and rape you, deport and rape you. WTF

, it's not even remotely funny. The fact that two or three Gardai laughed at it along with the lad who said it is fairly shocking. Can't really understand anyone standing up for these mongs or trying to explain it as a bit of crack either. Sick f**kers.

Ban or delete as ye feel fit.

fatalll · 05-04-2011 11:23pm

Ok. what they said is wrong. I dont think they meant it they were joking
As someone said in the posts earlier, We have all said at one stage or another "I will kill him/her" be it their boss , mother, father, brother etc.

I dont agree with what they said, their families and them will have already paid for it im sure.

Leave the Gardai deal with it internally.

Martin Ferris should not be throwing stones in the Dail either.

05-04-2011 11:26pm

fatalll wrote: »

Leave the Gardai deal with it internally.

No one is suggesting a lynch mob, it's a thread on a forum ffs, I don't think AGS give two sh1ts what's said on here really.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 05-04-2011 11:27pm

I support the Gardaí in general.

If I had my way I'd resurrect Commissioner O'Duffy and put him at the helm once again. I'd make Kevin O'Higgins or Pat "Concrete" Cooney your Minister and really put it up to the scum.

However, there is no way I can support those Gardaí or people that attempt to support them.

Why? Well here's what I said elsewhere:

Firstly, joking about rape is not funny of course (!). Secondly they are member's of our state's police force and should not be joking about a very serious criminal act. It's not going to make it any easier for rape victims to report their ordeal to the Gardaí when they read and hear about this. Unbelievable on every level.

None of my friends have ever cracked a rape "joke" behind closed doors to me and I would think less of them if they did.

This is the kind of crap any decent Irish male would want to distance themselves from, serious idiots these guys.

They're pretty screwed though, no one will want to defend these guys even their union (the GRA).

Another thing. Can you imagine the field day scumbags will have with this. Do you seriously not think some thug won't shout at Gardaí something along the lines of "What are you going to do guard, f**king rape me?!". Playing into people's hands like that is never smart. And I won't even start about the political wing of an organisation that brutally murdered one of your colleagues (my mistake, more than one unfortunately), they're probably laughing like hyenas tonight.

I bow out and leave people to their opinions whatever they may be.

Terrontress · 05-04-2011 11:40pm

Sometimes if you don't laugh, you'll cry.

I think Gardaí might be desensitised to rape by this stage, having come upon it so often.

There was a thread upon the Emergency Services board where a self-identifying member of AGS, and, if my memory serves me correctly, boards moderator at the time, stated that in their station they use the words "hairy ape" as a rhyming slang / euphamism for rape.

I'd imagine that this sort of behaviour is commonplace and this happens to be the time they got caught out.

But if you have dealt with several rapes over your career, are you going to treat the issue with the same gravity as someone who has no experience of it whatsoever?

ScareGilly · 05-04-2011 11:56pm

Beruthiel wrote: »

As a Garda, in uniform, doing your job, comments about rape, even to another colleague just aren't funny and completely inappropriate.
I fail to see how you have to be a feminist to understand that fact.

Well.. I've heard plenty of jokes about rape.. And you mighn't have found it funny, but who's to say the rest of the gardai in the car shouldn't have. Everyone is surely entitled to their own sense of humour, I've always been of the belief; If you can talk about it, you can joke about it. This was a private conversation between the gardai.

Sure, they were made in what they thought was a private conversation, that doesn't stop the joke from being completely inappropriate.

Completely inappropriate to you. To many people, this has been blown way out of proportion by a couple of idiots in the media. If you were to conduct a nationwide poll of everybody in Ireland, I would guess at least 70% would agree that the guards shouldn't be punished for what was said between mates in confidence.

vetstu wrote: »

What would happen if someone told a bangarda that they were going to rape her?
I'd say it would not be regarded as a throwaway comment.

If they were walking down the street, where the bangarda(Isn't that an illegal term or something now? PC gone mad again) was out of earshot and one fella said to his mate "Jesus, look at the arse on her, I'd rape her.." I'm pretty sure the garda wouldn't do anything, unless they were being recorded, and even then, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to do anything.

CarMuppet wrote: »

Regardless of profession to joke about rape is horrible. I would not these guys working in my locality tbh.

I'm also very scared that a lot of lads here think it's ok too. I've been around the planet in many roles.... The only people I found to joke about rape were very dodgy people indeed.

Job stress is not an excuse. Stress is curable. See a councillor.

I can safely say that 80% of my male friends have joked about rape in one way or another, and at least 30% of my female friends. Imo, If you can take it seriously, you can laugh about it.

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Whenever the boys in blue surpass themselves in the public eye one can always be guaranteed giggles in this forum. Sure, they were only a bit stressed. Mistreating women and protestors is tough work!

More stress relief here

Having watched that video, I've seen hardly any garda violence, and the garda violence I saw in it, was completely justified. What I did see, was numerous people being arrested, attempting to damage private property, 'obstructing the peace', resisting arrest, and harassing the gardai. Go take your stupid propaganda elsewhere.

parsi · 06-04-2011 12:04am

eroo wrote: »

I suppose everyone is glad to point out the faults these Gardai had in their private conversation?

Yet you will gladly sweep all of their good deeds under the carpet? Such as arresting the sort of people you would walk across the street to avoid; dealing with road accidents that would lead most to sleep with the light on; getting assaulted in the course of their duties; bringing cases before a system that favours the criminal... I could go on, but I wont. Because most of you wont care.

I, for one, hope those members are not scapegoated to appease the protesters in Mayo(who aren't from Mayo strangely).

What do you mean ?

Is it that everything dodgy should be excused because someday someone somewhere may need a Guard to carry out his duty ? Is this a subtle threat - dont criticise us or we mightn't be there when we are supposed to be ?

This is like the crap of someone getting off from the courts because his TD , his union and his mammy says that he was really nice to people most of the time.

angelfire9 · 06-04-2011 12:55am

Personally my first instinct when I heard about this was "bloody idiots"

I'm sure alot of serving members on here though will agree with me when I say alot of AGS members have what some might describe as "a sick sense of humour" also known as "gallows humour"
Dealing with death and violent crime on a regular basis can desensitize a person

I've heard some pretty weird comments from Gardai in what I found to be unfunny circumstances but they sometimes have to laugh or else they'd cry

The night my house burnt down I overheard two banners describingwhat they would like to do with two of the firemen in attendance suffice it to say handcuffs were mentioned

It was NOT a funny situation for me personally but they were having a laugh amongst themselves and I wasn't offended

Maybe I've spent too much time around cops but think this is being blown out of all proportion

parsi · 06-04-2011 1:02am

Of course it is . Why should we expect the guardians of the peace to treat crimes serioulsy if really they are just a joke.

Over the last few months we've had criminal cases where guards gave secrets to terrorists, have been convicted of sexual offences and just last week there's a guard who has been involved with an under-age male.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/underagesex-probe-garda-suspended-2590574.html

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

The Corrib Tape

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