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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Sindri


    I'm happy enough with our squad next year. There's only two or three things that has me a bit peeved and one of those would be our Lock issue. I'm not happy we signed a young player for a year who will probably leave at the end of the season when we could have had an experienced player, one who we know could add something to the team and we'd know what we'd be getting. Someone with experience for the tight games which is something we desperately need.

    I'm happy with Denton though, hopefully he comes good. I've heard good things about him but I've never seen him play. His physique strikes me as being athletic and being the type of player with good ball handling skills and will get his hands free and who'll hit rucks like a mad man. Hopefully the signing of Bent comes good too. I think it's fairly risky if we end up having to rely on him as I've seen the Hurricanes scrum this season on a few occasions and it was poor, but I trust Joe and Jono's judgement. It's good as well that him and Denton are IQ.

    The only other thing I'd be worried about is our injuries in the backs. As well as that though I think teams will develop ways to deal with us this season, i.e. play a massively physical game and disrupt us and our rhythm and not allow us to get into a rhythm which I feel the likes of Clermont and Toulouse would be capable of. Our pack is fine but I also think we need more of an unpredictable factor in the backs, everything goes through Sexton and if he's targeted that makes it much much easier on the opposition to defend against us and disrupt us.

    I don't think McFadden offers more in a creative sense than bashing it up the middle and I'd prefer to see Madigan playing 12 more often so we have two creative options on the field and that would make it more difficult for teams to defend against us or disrupt us as I see that that's what they'll try and do.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Madigan at 12 really didn't work in the Glasgow semi, though it might be worth another look.

    Disrupting Leinster and their rhythm is a lot easier said then done. The pack is exceptionally strong and abrasive with a stellar backrow - far more of Leinster's recent success has been down to exceptional forward work both in the traditional sense of generating quick, clean ruck ball and with the excellent handling of the forwards which allows for man points of attack. It is somewhat dependent on a big, bulky second row coming good though (I'm a big fan of Browne but wouldn't want to rely on him in a HEC knock out game). I'm slightly worried about the loss of Horgan and Fitz from the back 3 now, and the centres aren't getting any younger. Definitely some potential chinks appearing, but still a very strong squad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Strangely enough, I think a high profile 12 for a year deal would suit us perfectly. I think based on rotation the likes of Macken, O'Shea, McFadden will all get a shot, but I'd like a high profile 12 to help bridge their gap. Other than that I'm happy.

    I remember when HdVM, White, Strauss came to Leinster, I always was very skeptical because I didn't know anything about them. But look how they turned out. Let's hope Denton, Bent and Roux have the same effect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭funky penguin


    Is Roux confirmed?


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    His coach at Stormers said it in an interview, but nothing official yet.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Is Roux confirmed?

    I don't know why but Leinster are always very very slow to confirm any signings. When Mike Ross was eventually confirmed it months after it was common knowledge that he was coming. Even in the HEC QF that year I think the Sky guys were saying he was/had signed for us yet not a peep from Leinster.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I don't know why but Leinster are always very very slow to confirm any signings. When Mike Ross was eventually confirmed it months after it was common knowledge that he was coming. Even in the HEC QF that year I think the Sky guys were saying he was/had signed for us yet not a peep from Leinster.

    Generally, as far as I can recall, Leinster wait until all signings are made or a number of them are made and announce them all at the same time (often along with contract extensions). I expect we won't hear of Roux being announced officially until the full squad for next season is finalised.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    Yeah for some reason Leinster like to announce everything all at once. I suppose it takes the pressure off, if they don't make announcements on players in dribs and drabs, then people wont be expecting any news on signings that may be in the pipeline, and it throws other clubs (and agents) off the scent of what they might be up to and who they're talking to.

    But as per post above, it seems Peter Breen has "unoffically" confirmed it, and I'd imagine that's our lot now for the summer.

    Nothing spectacular, but taking a few punts on players in the hopes of unearthing a gem.

    Lest we forget that players like Contepomi, Stan Wright and Isa Nacewa were all punts at the time too, so hopefully one, if not all 3 new lads will make a massive and long term contribution to Leinster.

    Slight possability of a utility back coming in, but I really hope there isn't. I'd rather stick with the lads we've got.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Contempomi and Nacewa were hardly "punts".


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Contepomi definitely wasn't anyway.

    Nacewa was a big unknown, though very talented, so could loosely be termed a punt.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Unknown up here perhaps (I hadn't heard of him!), but he was fairly highly rated down south. 44 caps for the Blues and the ABs made serious efforts to have his Fiji cap annulled so he could play for them.

    Stan Wright was a complete punt that worked out brilliantly. I remember his first game - he was awful and clearly completely unfit. Must have still been working off the dog.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Contepomi definitely wasn't anyway.

    Nacewa was a big unknown, though very talented, so could loosely be termed a punt.
    I might be off here, but I think Leinster had to pay to have Nacewa released from his deal. So that's a vote of confidence.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Yeah Nacewa was well regarded but for most of the fans up here was an unknown, wasn't an All Black, didn't play International rugby, and had never played in the Northern Hemisphere.

    When you compare him to Elsom or Contepomi he could be termed, very loosely, a punt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Contempomi and Nacewa were hardly "punts".

    Of course they were. Contepomi had some Guinness Premiership experience (and was relegated with Bristol, hence his move away to Leinster) and had just made his debut for Argentina, who weren't nearly the team they are now, Nacewa had come from Super14 where he had produced very little and played as a mediocre 10, and was signed as a 10.

    At least in that sense that from the player they signed, Contepomi went on to be a world player of the year nominee and Nacewa arguably the best full-back in the world, I didn't hear elation at the quality of the signings when they first joined, it's what they did at Leinster that made them great.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    That's grossly underselling Nacewa. If he didn't have a two minute cap for Fiji he would have never come to Ireland as he would have been an All Black. There is a reason they put so much effort into trying to make him eligible. He also wasn't signed as a 10, he was signed as a centre/fullback who could cover 10 (a point Cheika stressed when the signing was announced). There was little elation at his signing amongst supporters because he was unknown up here.

    He's not even remotely in the same category as the signings Leinster have made this season.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    That's grossly underselling Nacewa. If he didn't have a two minute cap for Fiji he would have never come to Ireland as he would have been an All Black. There is a reason they put so much effort into trying to make him eligible. He also wasn't signed as a 10, he was signed as a centre/fullback who could cover 10 (a point Cheika stressed when the signing was announced). There was little elation at his signing amongst supporters because he was unknown up here.

    He's not even remotely in the same category as the signings Leinster have made this season.

    Really? I always seem to remember him coming here as a fly-half/12/utility back. :/


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    .ak wrote: »
    Really? I always seem to remember him coming here as a fly-half/12/utility back. :/

    They may well have been the agenda (and he did end up at 10 for a few disastrous games), but I'm pretty sure the signing was announced as someone to provide cover at 12 and in the back 3. I remember at the time not wanting him in ahead of Sexton so was reassured by that comment and then being disappointed a few weeks later!

    Regardless, he definitely wasn't signed solely as a 10.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    Of course they were. Contepomi had some Guinness Premiership experience (and was relegated with Bristol, hence his move away to Leinster) and had just made his debut for Argentina, who weren't nearly the team they are now, Nacewa had come from Super14 where he had produced very little and played as a mediocre 10, and was signed as a 10.

    At least in that sense that from the player they signed, Contepomi went on to be a world player of the year nominee and Nacewa arguably the best full-back in the world, I didn't hear elation at the quality of the signings when they first joined, it's what they did at Leinster that made them great.

    Bristol in 02/03 were all over the place off the field. If I remember right their owner half way through the season said he was pulling out. Without him it looked like the club couldn't survive financially. There were other off the field problems too.

    Also by 2003 Contepomi had become a main player for Argentina. I think he got his debut in 1999.

    He was a big signing at the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭WeeBushy


    Here's the Leinster announcement from when he was signed.
    Isa is a top class attacking player whose versatility as either a midfield or back three player makes him a threat as an out and out try scorer, as well as a playmaker in his own right. He will add great depth to our backline for next year and he will also increase our kicking options.

    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/2716.php


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    Fair enough re them mentioning his outside back potential, but he had played 10 for almost the entire previous season at Auckland and played a lot of rugby at 10 for Leinster in that first season too. Regarding him being a well established player, Clint Newland to put it in perspective had more Super14 time and had played for the Maori, and I think it's fair tosay he was a punt. Berquist, Sykes etc all had more experience, but I'd have called them punts too.

    Maybe it's just what you would consider a punt. I would consider it a non-established international quality player. Ollie Le Roux, CJ Van Der Linde, Rocky Elsom, Chris Whitaker, Brad Thorn, Nathan Hines, you know what you're getting. Strauss, Bent, Denton, Quin Roux etc. you're taking a chance on a player who's played top level, but hasn't been a proven success at that level. I'd include Nacewa in that. For every success of a punt like Nacewa, you have the failures of guys like Newland and Sykes imo.

    Re Contepomi, just checked and in fairness he did have a good bit of international rugby under his belt, so I'll withdraw that, but at the time I remember being excited by the signing as I saw him play against (and destroy) Leinster in Donnybrook, but I didn't consider him a well regarded and well known international player at the time. Perhaps I was wrong on that one.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭WeeBushy


    To an extent most SH players are a punt to some degree. Its a completely different style of rugby, different culture, different lifestyle. Some players just suit the NH (e.g. Sykes) while others revel in the different surroundings and improve their reputation


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    [Quote=[Jackass];79519891] Nacewa had come from Super14 where he had produced very little and played as a mediocre 10, and was signed as a 10[/Quote]

    What a load of rubbish. Just because you didn't know much about him does not mean he had "produced very little". He was extremely highly rated in NZ.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    Fair enough re them mentioning his outside back potential, but he had played 10 for almost the entire previous season at Auckland and played a lot of rugby at 10 for Leinster in that first season too. Regarding him being a well established player, Clint Newland to put it in perspective had more Super14 time and had played for the Maori, and I think it's fair tosay he was a punt. Berquist, Sykes etc all had more experience, but I'd have called them punts too.

    Maybe it's just what you would consider a punt. I would consider it a non-established international quality player. Ollie Le Roux, CJ Van Der Linde, Rocky Elsom, Chris Whitaker, Brad Thorn, Nathan Hines, you know what you're getting. Strauss, Bent, Denton, Quin Roux etc. you're taking a chance on a player who's played top level, but hasn't been a proven success at that level. I'd include Nacewa in that. For every success of a punt like Nacewa, you have the failures of guys like Newland and Sykes imo.

    Sorry Jackass, but you're well off the mark on this one. Nacewa was very highly rated in Super rugby and was not remotely in the Newland/Sykes/Berquist category. He was nominated for New Zealand player of the year just before he came over iirc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Nacewa was the fulcrum of the Blues back line during his last 2 seasons there. He was hugely rated and his battle to have his Fijian cap wasn't for fun; he was in line for an NZ cap if he could have managed it. He was one of the classiest players in Super Rugby when he made the switch if not one of the highest profile ones which I'd attribute to his lack of international success.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    SOB's surgery took place yesterday and, according to the man himself, was a success.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Bristol in 02/03 were all over the place off the field. If I remember right their owner half way through the season said he was pulling out. Without him it looked like the club couldn't survive financially. There were other off the field problems too.

    Also by 2003 Contepomi had become a main player for Argentina. I think he got his debut in 1999.

    He was a big signing at the time.

    after the '99 world cup Clontarf appointed Griz Willey coach, he'd just coached argentina and i remember the talk was that contepomi wanted to come to ireland and play rugby while completing his studies in RCofS's. At the time the talk was him to play AIL with clontarf and provincial with Leinster...never happened and he moved to Bristol.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    GerM wrote: »
    SOB's surgery took place yesterday and, according to the man himself, was a success.

    Did he perform it himself?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    shuffol wrote: »
    Did he perform it himself?

    He was too busy wrestling a bull.


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭Seph503


    durkadurka wrote: »
    He was too busy wrestling a bull.

    And saving a kitten from a tree. At the same time :cool:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭WeeBushy


    Seph503 wrote: »
    And saving a kitten from a tree. At the same time :cool:

    Sean O'Brien doesn't save kittens. He eats them.


This discussion has been closed.
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