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"no Irish " ad in Oz

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,499 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Xavi6 was stung by several Irish people in a row and apparently over a long time? I find that hard to believe.

    Your lack of belief is irrelevant, only the possibility that it is true is important.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    Yes, he got stung by several people that match descriptions based on ethnicity in a row.

    While it may not always be true, it is certainly understandable.
    “I have no trouble with Irish people,”

    “But I’ve had to fire a number of people. I’ve had lots of Irish people say they have experience bricklaying but come over and have no clue how to lay bricks.

    “I’m very busy and don’t have time to be watching over them.”

    Just to make it clear what this guy has said on why he posted what he posted.

    I don't agree with what he put on the ad, he should have just thrown out the applications instead of incurring a backlash. But hindsight is hindsight, he might not have been thinking rationally after he fired his 5th* Irish of the week due to putting a 90 degree angle wall at 45 degrees.

    *An example not fact.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,856 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    listermint wrote: »
    No Xavi, im sorry you are wrong.

    Matter of opinion.
    There are certain things in life you dont make excuses for, and i believe you also said somewhere in your myriad of posts that it was his business he can do what he wants.

    It IS his business and he CAN hire whoever he wants. What the hell is so outlandish about stating the bloody obvious?!
    So you need to re-examine yourself mate.

    I really don't.

    Try opening your mind a little though, you don't have to agree with everything in the world, just understand that others aren't cut from the same cloth rightly or wrongly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    irishmover wrote: »
    Just to make it clear what this guy has said on why he posted what he posted.

    I don't agree with what he put on the ad, he should have just thrown out the applications instead of incurring a backlash. But hindsight is hindsight, he might not have been thinking rationally after he fired his 5th* Irish of the week due to putting a 90 degree angle wall at 45 degrees.

    *An example not fact.

    Surely saying "experience essential" would have been better. Can all Ozzies lay bricks? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    irishmover wrote: »
    Just to make it clear what this guy has said on why he posted what he posted.

    I don't agree with what he put on the ad, he should have just thrown out the applications instead of incurring a backlash. But hindsight is hindsight, he might not have been thinking rationally after he fired his 5th* Irish of the week due to putting a 90 degree angle wall at 45 degrees.

    *An example not fact.

    :D

    It doesn't make it right... but thanks for the laugh :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    And also what about these Irish Bricklayers that he's claimed to have been rubbish? Why aren't they getting atleast some of the blame for causing this guy to have this opinion of Irish Bricklayers in general?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,499 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    ash23 wrote: »
    Surely saying "experience essential" would have been better. Can all Ozzies lay bricks? :confused:

    Obviously that would have been better. No one is arguing that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,856 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Xavi6 was stung by several Irish people in a row and apparently over a long time? I find that hard to believe.

    Eh by 'he' I'm sure he meant the builder, not me.

    I haven't been stung by anyone, hence my ability to see both sides.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Your lack of belief is irrelevant, only the possibility that it is true is important.
    Ah so a vivid imagination is enough to justify racism now, great.
    irishmover wrote: »
    Just to make it clear what this guy has said on why he posted what he posted.

    I don't agree with what he put on the ad, he should have just thrown out the applications instead of incurring a backlash. But hindsight is hindsight, he might not have been thinking rationally after he fired his 5th* Irish of the week due to putting a 90 degree angle wall at 45 degrees.
    Yeah, his name isn't Simon either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    ash23 wrote: »
    Surely saying "experience essential" would have been better. Can all Ozzies lay bricks? :confused:

    I think the point is he was saying that and was getting people apply that didn't have any experience at all, from reading the news article posted a few pages back.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    ash23 wrote: »
    Surely saying "experience essential" would have been better. Can all Ozzies lay bricks? :confused:

    Did you read the quote? He said alot of irish bricklayers he recruited claimed to have alot of experience. So what benefit would it give him to put in the ad "experience essential".

    Maybe what he might want to be doing is researching his potential employees a bit better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,499 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Ah so a vivid imagination is enough to justify racism now, great.

    Understanding is not justifying. If that is the full arsenal of your argument then I suspect you want the Knife fight down the corridor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    :D

    It doesn't make it right... but thanks for the laugh :D

    No worries, I found the whole thing funny but I find the arguments on here even moreso!


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,856 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    ash23 wrote: »
    It makes no sense not to hired because of your nationality either.
    You're ok with being discriminated against for a job because of your nationality? Are you ok with being refused entry to a pub because of the same? Or being denied promotion because you're Irish and the new manager hates Irish people? Is that all ok?
    You ok with your kids being turned down for jobs because of your roots? Or being denied entry to a "good" school for the same reasons?
    I can give you a million examples. You're just evading answering the questions.

    I haven't evaded anything, and I never said any of it was ok in the grand scheme of things. You used a crap analogy and I pointed it out so you've now shifted the goalposts to other, more sensical questions.

    He didn't want to hire Irish people so he said so. I can understand why he would do it but don't necessarily support it.

    Understanding and supporting are two different things (must be at least the fifth time I've said, maybe the penny will drop one day).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    ash23 wrote: »
    Surely saying "experience essential" would have been better. Can all Ozzies lay bricks? :confused:

    No, I can't 'lay bricks' but I wouldn't apply for a job saying I could either. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Eh by 'he' I'm sure he meant the builder, not me.

    I haven't been stung by anyone, hence my ability to see both sides.
    "Ability to see both sides" is not "I understand why he said that siince I've lived here so long".
    Understanding is not justifying. If that is the full arsenal of your argument then I suspect you want the Knife fight down the corridor.
    It really is gas to see the few trying to justify this. Painful gas, like after a particularly harsh curry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    irishmover wrote: »
    Did you read the quote? He said alot of irish bricklayers he recruited claimed to have alot of experience. So what benefit would it give him to put in the ad "experience essential".

    Maybe what he might want to be doing is researching his potential employees a bit better.

    Well, exactly. If he isn't going to check out potential employees, references and abilities, then he's going to get people who are useless and chancing their arms but they won't all be Irish.
    Whatever his reasons (in his own head) discrimination on the basis of nationality is wrong. And to accept it is taking a massive step backwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,499 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    "Ability to see both sides" is not "I understand why he said that siince I've lived here so long".


    It really is gas to see the few trying to justify this. Painful gas, like after a particularly harsh curry.

    You are equating empathy with agreement. That is clearly flawed and a terrible argument.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    No, I can't 'lay bricks' but I wouldn't apply for a job saying I could either. :D

    Those Irish bricklayers being deceitful (if true) are the reason why this guy posted "No Irish".

    I could never apply for a job stating I have alot of experience when i haven't. Look at what's come of it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,856 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    "Ability to see both sides" is not "I understand why he said that siince I've lived here so long".

    Actually it is.

    Living here I have experience of the sort of wasters that he has had applying for his job so therefore I can understand (there's that word again) why he would have a negative perception of Irish people and not want to hire them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    I haven't evaded anything, and I never said any of it was ok in the grand scheme of things. You used a crap analogy and I pointed it out so you've now shifted the goalposts to other, more sensical questions.

    He didn't want to hire Irish people so he said so. I can understand why he would do it but don't necessarily support it.

    Understanding and supporting are two different things (must be at least the fifth time I've said, maybe the penny will drop one day).

    Justifying bigotry isn't ok. You might dress it up as you being "understanding" but you're essentially justifying what this man did.

    You didn't like my first analogy, fine. no need to be so belittling about it. I've posted more which seem to be more tasteful to your good self. It's not shifting goalposts, the whole theme is still the same. You wouldn't be impressed if you or your family were discriminated in relation to your nationality and you wouldn't say "ah shure it's their business they can do as they like" if it happened to you or your kids.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,380 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Matter of opinion.



    It IS his business and he CAN hire whoever he wants. What the hell is so outlandish about stating the bloody obvious?!



    I really don't.

    Try opening your mind a little though, you don't have to agree with everything in the world, just understand that others aren't cut from the same cloth rightly or wrongly.

    Xavi, I think if you tie up all your posts together you (being im assuming a reasonable person) can see that you have come across pretty much on the side that what the guy did was fairly acceptable

    a) based on the fact that he owns his own business

    b) the fact that he may / may not have had bad experiences with some guys that arrived from a particular region.

    Where as i understand that not everyone is 'cut from the same cloth as me' I would immediately put down such an attitude were it to come up in my immediate circle or from some gougher sitting in the AE department giving out about the black doctor who is about to treat them.

    its all par of the course. and yes i do believe that you being a representative of an australia orientated forum should be coming out condemning this mans actions not explaining them.

    You can explain it away all you want but its mere glossing over the clear and blatant racism. which as ive said above you should be 'clearly' condemning, if not in part to promote your own forum and sport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,856 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    You are equating empathy with agreement. That is clearly flawed and a terrible argument.

    Sums it up pretty much


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    ash23 wrote: »
    Well, exactly. If he isn't going to check out potential employees, references and abilities, then he's going to get people who are useless and chancing their arms but they won't all be Irish.
    Whatever his reasons (in his own head) discrimination on the basis of nationality is wrong. And to accept it is taking a massive step backwards.

    Who has accepted it? The guy did something stupid, most probabaly based on recent experience. Has no-one here ever done anything and with hindsight thought 'god, that was a really, really stupid thing to do'.

    How is it being accepted if it has sparked such outrage? I don't see many people here defending what he did. :confused:

    It was 100% idiotic, but seriously, do people really think it is going to catch on and see the Irish being shipped off in droves? Really?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Living here I have experience of the sort of wasters that he has had applying for his job so therefore I can understand (there's that word again) why he would have a negative perception of Irish people and not want to hire them.
    Good god will you listen to yourself.

    "I have experience of the sort of wasters...I can understand...why he would have a negative perception of Irish people"


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    ash23 wrote: »
    Well, exactly. If he isn't going to check out potential employees, references and abilities, then he's going to get people who are useless and chancing their arms but they won't all be Irish.
    Whatever his reasons (in his own head) discrimination on the basis of nationality is wrong. And to accept it is taking a massive step backwards.

    Yeh so he's a pretty piss poor employer to not have the ability to research properly. Still as I said just above, the people being deceitful in their experience is piss poor to say the least. But it's the result of trusting people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭UglyBolloxFace


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Actually it is.

    Living here I have experience of the sort of wasters that he has had applying for his job so therefore I can understand (there's that word again) why he would have a negative perception of Irish people and not want to hire them.

    I again direct you to my post - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77552952&postcount=180

    Any chance you could give me an answer? If you ignore it, then I know you've been caught out. (but sure that's already evident anyway).


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,380 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    You are equating empathy with agreement. That is clearly flawed and a terrible argument.

    Empathy with hitlers hatred of the Jews would be similiar no?

    Lets see empathy with the colonists who took over south africa and kept the black population down...

    Empathy with the governments who had black people sit on 'black specific' seats on the bus in the US..

    Empathy with the no blacks no irish no dog signs in england throughout the 60's..

    Where does your empathy and condemnation begin?
    Im failing to comprehend you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    do people really think it is going to catch on and see the Irish being shipped off in droves? Really?

    Every Irish person I know over here has just got the sack :eek:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    How is it being accepted if it has sparked such outrage? I don't see many people here defending what he did. :confused:

    It was 100% idiotic, but seriously, do people really think it is going to catch on and see the Irish being shipped off in droves? Really?


    There are a few who think that it was reasonable enough. That's accepting it. I didn't say everyone was nor did I say it was going to result in a mass exile of Irish from Australia. :confused: That was your own exaggeration.

    I'm merely saying the bloke was wrong to say it and has no right to discriminate based on nationality, whatever his experience with Irish employees prior to this. It shouldn't ever be acceptable to do it and particularly to be so stupidly blatant about it. Of course people should speak up against it.


This discussion has been closed.
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