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Learner permits driving alone. Enforcement?

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124

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    #92
    paddyland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    Just because someone is driving under a Learner's Permit, doesn't mean they are learning. They are driving their car, motoring from A to B, maybe driving well, or more likely driving disgracefully. But most of the time, from what I see, they are not LEARNING.

    An attitude prevails, that once you know which pedal to go, and which pedal to stop, and can steer without bouncing off the first kerb you see, that you have 'learnt' to drive, and that everything else is an irrelevance. People with such an attitude, in my opinion, cannot be educated to drive, because their mind is closed. They see it as irrelevant.

    Enforcing the L plate rule would be one thing. Bringing in a harder test would be another. However, having seen the standard of driving of some cars without L plates, I am firmly of the opinion that there are drivers out there who have never passed a test, display no L plates, and have no notion of doing either.

    But as long as everyone is forced to 'slow down,' and driving standards are dumbed down across the board, then we can 'hide' the fact that we don't enforce good driving standards. There's something rotten in the system.


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    #93
    MattHelders
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭MattHelders


    I'm a Learner Driver and I am just wondering if, when I'm driving alone, should I take my L plates down so the Gardai mighn't stop me or leave them up and just hope they don't?


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    #94
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    MattHelders wrote: »
    I'm a Learner Driver and I am just wondering if, when I'm driving alone, should I take my L plates down so the Gardai mighn't stop me or leave them up and just hope they don't?
    Common sense would indicate that you take them down

    However we dont advise you to break the law on this forum ;):p


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    #95
    Yuri
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Yuri


    Faith+1 wrote: »
    No you're not Tom. The law was changed back in 2008 which stipulated that all learner drivers must be accompanied at all times by a full licence holder. Paying for road tax and insurance has nothing to do with this law.


    Can you provide a link to back this up? I've read this whole forum and a lot seems to based on opinions not on facts.

    I'm currently in an argument with a friend about learner drivers being caught unaccompanied, the fines they get and a few other related points so I'm looking for solid evidence. The information is almost near impossible to find but interestingly I have found out that you CANT get penalty points for driving unaccompanied but you can still get points for other offences if you are a learner driver.

    List of penalty point offences: http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf


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    #96
    loobylou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    Yuri wrote: »
    Can you provide a link to back this up? I've read this whole forum and a lot seems to based on opinions not on facts.

    There was a strange anomaly up to a few years ago where learners had to be accompanied on their first, third and any subsequent provisional licences but were allowed to drive alone on their second.
    It was something of a throwback to the days when it might take up to a year to get a test appointment. The " logic" of it was to allow people who deemed themselves to be test ready to drive alone.
    To acquire a third or more more provisional licence you needed to have sat a driving test and failed, thus putting you back in the learner category and needing to be accompanied again.
    It was a uniquely Irish system.


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    #97
    Kathyo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭Kathyo


    I have been stopped in the last week at a checkpoint,insurance, tax etc weren't checked. But they did check that I had a full license and specifically told me they were checking for people driving on learner licenses alone. So obviously the law is being enforced to some degree.

    I also don't condone learners driving alone, and certainly don't think they should drive with no plates just so they don't get caught.
    I've been behind people doing just that. People who have obviously been driving only a few weeks and its just dangerous. They can just about drive, i.e are capable of moving the car and steering, and might not get the leeway (in terms of distance and caution from other drivers) that learner drivers should get!


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    #98
    clanard
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭clanard


    OK this might be a silly question but is a Learner Permit holder insured to drive alone. Its ok having a small tip when a full licence holder in the passenger seat but would the Learner be covered if they are driving alone and have an accident???


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    #99
    starlit
    Registered Users Posts: 12,334 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    No a learner driver isn't insured to drive on their own they are only insured to drive as long as they have an accompany driver holds a 2 year full drivers licence. It be part of the policy as far as I know not just for rules of the road purposes. You get no money or no compensation if you have an accident while driving on your own without an accompany driver if the insurance is only in your name if its on the name of the full licence/accompany holder then you might be ok and get some claim, you'd have to clarify with the insurance company.


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    #100
    Speedy199
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Speedy199


    doovdela wrote: »
    No a learner driver isn't insured to drive on their own they are only insured to drive as long as they have an accompany driver holds a 2 year full drivers licence. It be part of the policy as far as I know not just for rules of the road purposes. You get no money or no compensation if you have an accident while driving on your own without an accompany driver if the insurance is only in your name if its on the name of the full licence/accompany holder then you might be ok and get some claim, you'd have to clarify with the insurance company.

    Actually i would say its the other way around if you crash on your own insurance you will get compensation but if you crashed while driving alone under the full licenced drivers insurance you will get none.


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    #101
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    doovdela wrote: »
    No a learner driver isn't insured to drive on their own they are only insured to drive as long as they have an accompany driver holds a 2 year full drivers licence. It be part of the policy as far as I know not just for rules of the road purposes. You get no money or no compensation if you have an accident while driving on your own without an accompany driver if the insurance is only in your name if its on the name of the full licence/accompany holder then you might be ok and get some claim, you'd have to clarify with the insurance company.

    THIS IS NOT TRUE!

    This is being covered over in motors at the minute. Have a read. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056584325


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    #102
    starlit
    Registered Users Posts: 12,334 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    I'm totally confused by that, one instructor I had told me I wouldn't be insured if drove on my own. If I drove with my accompany driver (who holds a full licence for more than 2 years) I am insured but if have an accident, I would get a claim? they get the claim but not me? Or is it if you have your own insurance you be ok or not or is it if you are insured on the same insurance policy with the full licence holder/accompany driver you be ok or not?


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    #103
    Speedy199
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Speedy199


    In my own opinion (will stand to be corrected) but if you look at it this way. While named on someone elses policy and you crash while driving un accompied in someone elses car and their policy you will not be compensated but if your are driving your own car with your own insurance and you crash and it is not your fault then i wouldnt see why you wouldnt get compensation


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    #104
    starlit
    Registered Users Posts: 12,334 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    I honestly cannot understand it, it makes little sense though. If you are driving on your own whether you have your own insurance with your own name, own the car, taxes, cert, nct in your own name, I still don't think you could get a claim as you are 'driving on your own' technically aren't insured to drive on your own, technically not insured to drive without having an accompany driver with you? That's what I thought that was the case?

    While if you are on the accompany holders policy with their name and insurance then you or them be more likely to get a claim whether or not you drove with them or on your own you or they will get a claim?


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    #105
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    Let's just step back here for one minute.

    I would say it is very rare that someone crashes and makes a claim without breaking the law in some way. Driving without due care or attention, failure to stop at a stop sign, not yielding on a roundabout, speeding, drink driving, these things happen every single day and do not "invalidate insurance". If breaking the law did invalidate insurance, it would be next to useless.

    doovdela, you mention "getting a claim", i'm not too sure what you mean by this. If you are involved in an accident with someone else, then both insurance companies are informed, and the party who is deemed to be in the wrong pays the costs. If A crashes into B, then A's insurance company pays out, and A loses their NCB as there was a claim made on their policy.


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    #106
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    MattHelders wrote: »
    I'm a Learner Driver and I am just wondering if, when I'm driving alone, should I take my L plates down so the Gardai mighn't stop me or leave them up and just hope they don't?

    I'd recommend that your L plates should be displayed at all times.

    Taking them down means

    - No allowance made by other road users for the fact that you're learning. This is potentially dangerous.
    - Harsher penalty / fine if caught driving unaccompanied.


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    #107
    ScrubsfanChris
    Registered Users Posts: 8,599 ✭✭✭ScrubsfanChris


    A friend of mine was stopped a few days ago while he was alone in the car and was told to bring his details (he didn't mention which) to the local station and then he was sent on his way.

    The tax was also up, but it was his dad's car so no action was taken on that.


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    #108
    WillyWonkaBar
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭WillyWonkaBar


    MattHelders wrote: »
    I'm a Learner Driver and I am just wondering if, when I'm driving alone, should I take my L plates down so the Gardai mighn't stop me or leave them up and just hope they don't?

    Easy answer really, dont drive unless your accompanied by a person who has a held a full driving license for 2 years.

    Simples!


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    #109
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    WillyWonkaBar wrote: »
    Easy answer really, dont drive unless your accompanied by a person who has a held a full driving license for 2 years.

    Simples!

    Wise words.

    I'd also add the following:

    No practice = no hope of passing your test.

    Unless you've very deep pockets and can afford to pay an instructor every time you want to go out driving.


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    #110
    Faith+1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    nlgbbbblth wrote: »
    Wise words.

    I'd also add the following:

    No practice = no hope of passing your test.

    Unless you've very deep pockets and can afford to pay an instructor every time you want to go out driving.[/QUOTE]

    So that justifies people breaking the law?


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    #111
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    Faith+1

    Kindly point out where I suggested that.

    It was merely a follow-on to WillyWonkaBar's post.


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    #112
    Faith+1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    nlgbbbblth wrote: »
    Faith+1

    Kindly point out where I suggested that.

    It was merely a follow-on to WillyWonkaBar's post.

    Okay so. Then please explain to me what you meant by;

    "No practice = no hope of passing your test.

    Unless you've very deep pockets and can afford to pay an instructor every time you want to go out driving"


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    #113
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    Faith+1 wrote: »
    Okay so. Then please explain to me what you meant by;

    "No practice = no hope of passing your test.

    Unless you've very deep pockets and can afford to pay an instructor every time you want to go out driving"

    Exactly what it says.

    I doubt if very many people can pass the driving test based on an average number of lessons (say about 12 - 15) and no practice outside of that.


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    #114
    Nasty_Girl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Nasty_Girl


    nlgbbbblth wrote: »
    Exactly what it says.

    I doubt if very many people can pass the driving test based on an average number of lessons (say about 12 - 15) and no practice outside of that.

    I refused to drive alone, it took a long time and a lot of "lessons" but I got there in the end, finally passed yesterday!

    If you don't have a mammy and daddy or spouse to take you out practicing then it seems the only options are break the law or spend a fortune.
    It took me a long time to find an instructor who actually took into account the fact i couldnt practice alone.

    It's not ideal but I dont know what the solution is.


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    #115
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    Nasty_Girl wrote: »
    I refused to drive alone, it took a long time and a lot of "lessons" but I got there in the end, finally passed yesterday!

    If you don't have a mammy and daddy or spouse to take you out practicing then it seems the only options are break the law or spend a fortune.
    It took me a long time to find an instructor who actually took into account the fact i couldnt practice alone.

    It's not ideal but I dont know what the solution is.

    Congratulations. Good to hear that.

    I've only had experience of a couple of instructors but both were fairly negative towards the idea of not being able to practice outside of lessons.

    I found that it was very difficult to make significant progress when one's driving is restricted to an hour per week and nothing outside of that.


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    #116
    Nasty_Girl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Nasty_Girl


    Well most of mine started off saying "oh fair play to you for not breaking the law" - then it would be "you know you'd probably never get stopped" and finally "you should really get practice any way you can..."

    I should really write a book on this!


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    #117
    Faith+1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    nlgbbbblth wrote: »
    Exactly what it says.

    I doubt if very many people can pass the driving test based on an average number of lessons (say about 12 - 15) and no practice outside of that.

    My point exactly, so you're condoning people breaking the law. I passed my test with only lessons from an ADI. The law is there for a reason, the safety of the learner and other road users.


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    #118
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    Faith+1 wrote: »
    My point exactly, so you're condoning people breaking the law. I passed my test with only lessons from an ADI. The law is there for a reason, the safety of the learner and other road users.

    I'm not.

    However you obviously have your mind made up on the justifying / condoning angle so I don't think anything else I say is going to change your mind.


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    #119
    Faith+1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    nlgbbbblth wrote: »
    I'm not.

    However you obviously have your mind made up on the justifying / condoning angle so I don't think anything else I say is going to change your mind.

    Then explain what you meant??


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    #120
    WillyWonkaBar
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭WillyWonkaBar


    I know a number of people who have passed their test without any practice outside of lessons. It can be done, but only if the student has the right attitude, Also if instructors are telling their students to break the law then they should be reported.


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    #121
    Faith+1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    WillyWonkaBar wrote: »
    I know a number of people who have passed their test without any practice outside of lessons. It can be done, but only if the student has the right attitude, Also if instructors are telling their students to break the law then they should be reported.

    +1


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