[Del2005]

Originally Posted by charlemont

I agree with the current Fine system as otherwise you only create a two-tier system in which people with money can pay their way and those without money only fall further into debt.
More usage of community work as punishment should be encouraged.

So you agree with a system that's allows people who don't pay fines, for whatever reason, get away without paying their fines and therefore aren't punished after being convicted of committing an offence. While someone who commits the same offence and pays is punished

I know that sending people to jail for non payment of fines is a waste of resources, but too many people know this and are abusing the system and getting away without any punishment after being convicted of breaking a law.

They need to start deducting the fines at source, if it leads to hardship then you should obey the law.

[charlemont]

Originally Posted by krd

Being released within a few hours is not something you should ever bank on happening. I know it happens a lot, but sometimes they do decide to lock people up for a few days. Or sometimes even months.

Cool, Well any fine that requires a few month's sentence in lieu of payment would be a different matter. I'm really only talking about fines in which the default is only a few days or a week.

[Procrastastudy]

Originally Posted by Del2005

So you agree with a system that's allows people who don't pay fines, for whatever reason, get away without paying their fines and therefore aren't punished after being convicted of committing an offence. While someone who commits the same offence and pays is punished

I know that sending people to jail for non payment of fines is a waste of resources, but too many people know this and are abusing the system and getting away without any punishment after being convicted of breaking a law.

They need to start deducting the fines at source, if it leads to hardship then you should obey the law.

The problem is that of the twenty thousand or so solutions we pick the stupidest. I really would have though Shatter would have picked this up by now he's done everything else first year law students doing criminology think is a good idea!

[charlemont]

Originally Posted by Del2005

So you agree with a system that's allows people who don't pay fines, for whatever reason, get away without paying their fines and therefore aren't punished after being convicted of committing an offence. While someone who commits the same offence and pays is punished

I know that sending people to jail for non payment of fines is a waste of resources, but too many people know this and are abusing the system and getting away without any punishment after being convicted of breaking a law.

They need to start deducting the fines at source, if it leads to hardship then you should obey the law.

Any fine given in this jurisdiction has a prison term attached in lieu of payment, I didn't make the rules, If you don't like it then remember it when your casting your vote next time.

You can look at it in two ways, If someone pays the fine then they have avoided doing any prison time. Or just do the time and save a few hundred quid, Either way you get stung either by paying money or doing time.

They could deduct the fines as you say but that will only affect the relatively law abiding people up for driving offences etc as the hardened criminals themselves won't have any intention of paying them or filling out whatever forms will be needed to make the deduction.


Whole system needs change from top down but we won't get that of course..

[krd]

Originally Posted by Procrastastudy

Womans prisons - overcrowded as mens? Chance of doing the time?

Dochas - where the auld triangle goes jingle jangle - the Joy's women's prison is supposed to running at twice capacity at the moment.

It's a nicer looking prison than the mens'.

And they have more celebrities. The scissor sisters, Catherine Nevin, and Adam Clayton's house keeper.

[Del2005]

Originally Posted by charlemont

Any fine given in this jurisdiction has a prison term attached in lieu of payment, I didn't make the rules, If you don't like it then remember it when your casting your vote next time.

You can look at it in two ways, If someone pays the fine then they have avoided doing any prison time. Or just do the time and save a few hundred quid, Either way you get stung either by paying money or doing time.

But the issue is that very few people aren doing time for non payment of fines. If you don't pay a fine you technically aren't being punished, since the only option is prison and since that's a waste of money they aren't being imprisioned.

Originally Posted by charlemont

They could deduct the fines as you say but that will only affect the relatively law abiding people up for driving offences etc as the hardened criminals themselves won't have any intention of paying them or filling out whatever forms will be needed to make the deduction.

The "harden criminals" still get the dole, cut it at source, or get the CAB to start seizing assests.

Originally Posted by charlemont

Whole system needs change from top down but we won't get that of course..

True, unfortunately

[Procrastastudy]

Originally Posted by charlemont

Whole system needs change from top down but we won't get that of course..

Realistically it needs some minor fixes such as being able to pay fines by installments.

If you look at prison as a concept then yes it does but that's unlikely to happen in our lifetimes.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by krd

On average, a prisoner dies once a week in Limerick. Natural causes of course.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?...2-07-17.2538.0

Originally Posted by Procrastastudy

It is broke and the prisons are costing 5 billion a year.

Or in this country €336m per year. See table 1: http://budget.gov.ie/budgets/2012/Do...20Part%204.pdf

Originally Posted by 28064212

That's the second time you've made an outrageous claim with no source. From the 2011 Irish Prison Service Annual Report:

But how many committals to prison were for fines? If the average sentence served for a fine is one week, each prison space could hold 50-52 people per year. So you could be dealing with 1,000 committals (out of 13,000) for non-payment of fines or 7.7%, not your 0.5%.

[28064212]

Originally Posted by Victor

But how many admissions to prison were for fines?

I didn't mention, nor did I respond to, any claims about prison admissions

[olcod]

The system is a pure disgrace and its no wonder the country is in the state its in. I had a phone call from a local guard on Monday to say a warrant had arrived for me ( I was expecting it ). He was absolutely fantastic on the phone to me, starting with having to clarify that I was fined 500 euro for non payment of a speeding ticket and by the way he was talking to me I could tell that he found this a ridiculous amount for such a petty offence. He wen't on to ask if there was any way I could afford to pay, I explained that I really couldn't as i've been living on the bread line for the past 3 years and that im a single dad to two kids and am struggling to make ends meet as it is ( im currently working on a CE Scheme and after paying my rent am left with 140 pw to live off). He told me the only other option was prison for 3 days as stated on the warrant, unfortunately this is what i'll have to do but I explained to him that im concerned for my kids as we have no family ( their mum died ) and I didn't want them to know about it or see me hauled off in a guarda car. He explained to me not to worry that he'll be in touch next week and call me to give me a couple of days notice so I can arrange for someone to look after my girls, im to then meet him at the guarda station where he'll take me up to the prison ( not sure which one as im in Kerry ) where i'll be processed, he said that the worst case will be i'd spend 3 days inside but the best case scenario is i'll be back home that evening but obviously with a criminal record . Now, the reason why I find the system a disgrace is this, I work as a maintenance man at a mental health unit and every day I see people who NEED HELP, people who are unable to do simple things like tidy their gardens or clean their homes,windows...etc, people who just want someone to talk to even. Their are people all across the country who need help, the elderly, the disabled, the isolated. One day of help a week would make a huge difference to these peoples lives yet the system is throwing people in jail who can't afford to pay fines for petty offences rather than finding a more constructive solution. The system is totally crazy. I for one would much rather help someone in need and make a difference to our society at zero expense to the tax payer or government than be twiddling my thumbs in a prison cell at huge expense to the tax payer and government.

[ResearchWill]

Originally Posted by olcod

The system is a pure disgrace and its no wonder the country is in the state its in. I had a phone call from a local guard on Monday to say a warrant had arrived for me ( I was expecting it ). He was absolutely fantastic on the phone to me, starting with having to clarify that I was fined 500 euro for non payment of a speeding ticket and by the way he was talking to me I could tell that he found this a ridiculous amount for such a petty offence. He wen't on to ask if there was any way I could afford to pay, I explained that I really couldn't as i've been living on the bread line for the past 3 years and that im a single dad to two kids and am struggling to make ends meet as it is ( im currently working on a CE Scheme and after paying my rent am left with 140 pw to live off). He told me the only other option was prison for 3 days as stated on the warrant, unfortunately this is what i'll have to do but I explained to him that im concerned for my kids as we have no family ( their mum died ) and I didn't want them to know about it or see me hauled off in a guarda car. He explained to me not to worry that he'll be in touch next week and call me to give me a couple of days notice so I can arrange for someone to look after my girls, im to then meet him at the guarda station where he'll take me up to the prison ( not sure which one as im in Kerry ) where i'll be processed, he said that the worst case will be i'd spend 3 days inside but the best case scenario is i'll be back home that evening but obviously with a criminal record . Now, the reason why I find the system a disgrace is this, I work as a maintenance man at a mental health unit and every day I see people who NEED HELP, people who are unable to do simple things like tidy their gardens or clean their homes,windows...etc, people who just want someone to talk to even. Their are people all across the country who need help, the elderly, the disabled, the isolated. One day of help a week would make a huge difference to these peoples lives yet the system is throwing people in jail who can't afford to pay fines for petty offences rather than finding a more constructive solution. The system is totally crazy. I for one would much rather help someone in need and make a difference to our society at zero expense to the tax payer or government than be twiddling my thumbs in a prison cell at huge expense to the tax payer and government.

Did you tell the judge all that when he imposed the fine. Did you say Judge can you give a low or zero fine and sure ill do 2 days work in a local charity, because I really can't afford a fine or a donation. I think many judges would think that's a great idea.

[olcod]

Originally Posted by ResearchWill

Did you tell the judge all that when he imposed the fine. Did you say Judge can you give a low or zero fine and sure ill do 2 days work in a local charity, because I really can't afford a fine or a donation. I think many judges would think that's a great idea.

I didn't as tbh I was a bag of nerves and barely said a word, the judge was really harsh to all who were before me so by the time I was called up I just froze and just wanted to get the hell out of there. Wished I had said something now but hey that's life.

[ResearchWill]

Originally Posted by olcod

I didn't as tbh I was a bag of nerves and barely said a word, the judge was really harsh to all who were before me so by the time I was called up I just froze and just wanted to get the hell out of there. Wished I had said something now but hey that's life.

I know its too late now but you could have appealed, most Circuit Judges where there is a DJ who fines heavily usually give fairer fines.

[olcod]

Originally Posted by ResearchWill

I know its too late now but you could have appealed, most Circuit Judges where there is a DJ who fines heavily usually give fairer fines.

I would say " well i'll know for next time " but I hope there'll never be a next time, thanks anyway. I've definitely learnt my lesson though, never bury you're head when it comes to paying a speeding ticket.