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Internship related to primary education I thought some of you might be interested in

Comments

  • #2
    ytareh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭ytareh


    Teachers have already done their 'internship '! You're not the only one looking to exploit unemployed teachers to highlight your organisation in classrooms , but you're the only one expecting them to do it for FREE!


  • #3
    karennolan87
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭karennolan87


    INTO is against any members participating in jobbridge / internship schemes.


  • #4
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    In fairness though, this is the sort of thing schools should be using job bridge for. A teacher isn't going to be employed in that capacity anyway so why not give someone experience in that regard? The two people we've had on job bridge in the past were both in roles that wouldn't have been filled otherwise (IT tech. and laboratory tech. respectively) and would have been left to the existing teachers to do for no extra pay. It meant that they got experience of working in a school (and one was considering training as a teacher and got good experience of what being employed in a school setting was like).

    I should point out that neither were qualified teachers but were qualified in the areas they were working in within the school and neither were asked to fill in for teachers at any point (although sometimes their work involved working with the teachers in their respective departments in a classroom setting).

    There's no question that job bridge isn't being exploited by some employers just to get cheap labour but schools are in a position to use it as it was intended. Maybe the unions should stipulate that nobody who is qualified as a teacher or is undergoing teacher training should take part in job bridge but that we are allowed to cooperate if the scheme is being used in the spirit it was intended. We have enough to do as it is without cutting off our noses to spite our faces.


  • #5
    doc11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭doc11


    RealJohn wrote: »
    In fairness though, this is the sort of thing schools should be using job bridge for. A teacher isn't going to be employed in that capacity anyway so why not give someone experience in that regard? The two people we've had on job bridge in the past were both in roles that wouldn't have been filled otherwise (IT tech. and laboratory tech. respectively) and would have been left to the existing teachers to do for no extra pay. It meant that they got experience of working in a school (and one was considering training as a teacher and got good experience of what being employed in a school setting was like).

    I should point out that neither were qualified teachers but were qualified in the areas they were working in within the school and neither were asked to fill in for teachers at any point (although sometimes their work involved working with the teachers in their respective departments in a classroom setting).

    There's no question that job bridge isn't being exploited by some employers just to get cheap labour but schools are in a position to use it as it was intended. Maybe the unions should stipulate that nobody who is qualified as a teacher or is undergoing teacher training should take part in job bridge but that we are allowed to cooperate if the scheme is being used in the spirit it was intended. We have enough to do as it is without cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

    I don't get the logic that teaching positions can't be added but everything else is fair game. If your a qualified lab tech or IT admin(who spent years at college too) I don't see why you'd be expected to work for peanuts no more than a recently qualified B.Ed. I highly doubt the spirit of the scheme was to provide an intern to do dogsbody work that permanent staff couldn't be bothered to do.


  • #6
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    doc11 wrote: »
    I don't get the logic that teaching positions can't be added but everything else is fair game. If your a qualified lab tech or IT admin(who spent years at college too) I don't see why you'd be expected to work for peanuts no more than a recently qualified B.Ed. I highly doubt the spirit of the scheme was to provide an intern to do dogsbody work that permanent staff couldn't be bothered to do.

    I'd argue that this type of internship is even more unfair in that the job doesn't even exist so there is no possible way you can ever get that position. Even a teacher doing an internship can use the experience to get that job (albeit probably not in the same school or they wouldn't be looking for an intern in the first place).


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  • #7
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    I'd argue that this type of internship is even more unfair in that the job doesn't even exist so there is no possible way you can ever get that position. Even a teacher doing an internship can use the experience to get that job (albeit probably not in the same school or they wouldn't be looking for an intern in the first place).
    And I'd argue that neither of you seem to understand the point of the scheme but rather, are assuming that the only point is to exploit people while providing cheap labour. It's not a matter of doing jobs that the teaching staff "couldn't be bothered to do". It a case of those jobs having to be done by the teaching staff because the teachers who had B posts to do those jobs have moved on to other posts and those B posts weren't replaced so the teachers have to do them for no extra money just because someone has to or the school doesn't function.

    The function of job bridge is not to give people the exact job they're going to be doing (otherwise why not just give them that job?), it's to give them experience they wouldn't otherwise be getting in an area they're looking to get a real job in. A lab tech gets experience in ordering supplies, organising a lab, preparing chemicals etc. An IT tech gets experience setting up networks, user accounts and the inevitable problems they arise. Neither of these are jobs that any normal school in Ireland has as a paid position (maybe some of the fee paying schools do) and the IT doesn't fall under any subject teacher's remit in the normal course of events, nor do science teachers (or other teachers of practical subjects) get paid extra for all the extra time they have to spend on top of the regular work that all teachers have to put in so I don't see why schools wouldn't offer these positions both to benefit the schools and students and also to give an unemployed person an advantage in the jobs market.


  • #8
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Even the Jobsbridge page acknowledges that if the role can never exist the internship shouldn't exist, regardless of experience gained

    http://www.jobbridge.ie/notice3.aspx


  • #9
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    doc11 wrote: »
    I don't get the logic that teaching positions can't be added but everything else is fair game. If your a qualified lab tech or IT admin(who spent years at college too) I don't see why you'd be expected to work for peanuts no more than a recently qualified B.Ed. I highly doubt the spirit of the scheme was to provide an intern to do dogsbody work that permanent staff couldn't be bothered to do.

    Because teaching positions are based on an allocation from the Department. A principal can't just turn to a Jobsbridge intern after their 9 month stint and go 'yes, we'll hire you next year'. A private business can choose how many employees they wish to have and create a position if they want.


  • #10
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    RealJohn wrote: »
    And I'd argue that neither of you seem to understand the point of the scheme but rather, are assuming that the only point is to exploit people while providing cheap labour. It's not a matter of doing jobs that the teaching staff "couldn't be bothered to do". It a case of those jobs having to be done by the teaching staff because the teachers who had B posts to do those jobs have moved on to other posts and those B posts weren't replaced so the teachers have to do them for no extra money just because someone has to or the school doesn't function.

    The function of job bridge is not to give people the exact job they're going to be doing (otherwise why not just give them that job?), it's to give them experience they wouldn't otherwise be getting in an area they're looking to get a real job in. A lab tech gets experience in ordering supplies, organising a lab, preparing chemicals etc. An IT tech gets experience setting up networks, user accounts and the inevitable problems they arise. Neither of these are jobs that any normal school in Ireland has as a paid position (maybe some of the fee paying schools do) and the IT doesn't fall under any subject teacher's remit in the normal course of events, nor do science teachers (or other teachers of practical subjects) get paid extra for all the extra time they have to spend on top of the regular work that all teachers have to put in so I don't see why schools wouldn't offer these positions both to benefit the schools and students and also to give an unemployed person an advantage in the jobs market.

    yes, but the problem is that school's aren't advertising these types of jobs. They are advertising teaching jobs on JobsBridge.


  • #11
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    yes, but the problem is that school's aren't advertising these types of jobs. They are advertising teaching jobs on JobsBridge.
    Oh I know and that is unacceptable.


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  • #12
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Even the Jobsbridge page acknowledges that if the role can never exist the internship shouldn't exist, regardless of experience gained

    http://www.jobbridge.ie/notice3.aspx
    But you can get similar jobs.


  • #13
    2011abc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭2011abc


    Just because staff retires that doesn't mean existing staff should have to shore up the gap and watch their workload increase to breaking point
    Jobbridge is shamefully exploitative .
    All this money saving is to make obscenely rich people even more obscenely rich . Siemens offered to fit water meters for free but FG gave the contract to Dennis O'Brien ( Esat Digifone -fool me once ....?!)


  • #14
    doc11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭doc11


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Because teaching positions are based on an allocation from the Department. A principal can't just turn to a Jobsbridge intern after their 9 month stint and go 'yes, we'll hire you next year'. A private business can choose how many employees they wish to have and create a position if they want.

    You can add jobbridge positions on top on existing allocations, just like adding interns for IT admins,lab techs and library assistants. All these roles would be filled by college educated professionals. Schools won't be able to create positions for any of these roles no more than for teachers after the internship.
    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    yes, but the problem is that school's aren't advertising these types of jobs. They are advertising teaching jobs on JobsBridge.

    So it's fine to devalue other professionals within a school setting just not teachers. I can't get my head around such a selfish attitude.


  • #15
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    doc11 wrote: »
    You can add jobbridge positions on top on existing allocations, just like adding interns for IT admins,lab techs and library assistants. All these roles would be filled by college educated professionals. Schools won't be able to create positions for any of these roles no more than for teachers after the internship.



    So it's fine to devalue other professionals within a school setting just not teachers. I can't get my head around such a selfish attitude.

    You've taken me completely out of context and that's not what I meant.

    Schools are advertising teaching jobs on Jobsbridge. They can't provide interns with those jobs at the end of 9 months. When I was referencing non teaching jobs, I meant that the kind of internships that lead to jobs are not the type that schools can advertise. I'm not trying to devalue other professions and I don't have a selfish attitude.


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