2014 NFL Draft

JaMarcus Hustle · 04-12-2013 11:13am

eagle eye wrote: »

Are you still a Patriots fan?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

....and that's just because there's a limit of 15 images per post. I originally had 165 of them in store for you.

Knex* · 04-12-2013 1:53pm

eagle eye wrote: »

For me Derek Carr is the best of the bunch this year.

He's 22, already married, and has a 1 year old kid. Christ. :eek:

Despite that entire situation seeming horrendous in my eyes, how on Earth is he coping with that, and the pressure and time commitments that go with being a potential NFL Quarterback.

frostie500 · 04-12-2013 2:32pm

eagle eye wrote: »

For me Derek Carr is the best of the bunch this year.

Carr looks to be a quality QB and I've been impressed by him. He really needed to get into a BCS Bown to show what he can do but coming from a small school and being David's brother is sure to be held against him. Right or wrong QBs from different schools get treated differently (School A produces NFL ready QBs, School B produces system QBs) and having a bloodline to a former Number 1 overall bust is definitely something that will be counted against him too. It's not fair but that's the way of the NFL.

kennyb3 · 04-12-2013 3:06pm

A Bears fan signing in as our season is done - we'll be drafting DL or CB for sure in the first.

HigginsJ · 04-12-2013 3:26pm

kennyb3 wrote: »

A Bears fan signing in as our season is done - we'll be drafting DL or CB for sure in the first.

Am I missing something? 1 game out of share for lead of division. You are currently the 9 seed in the NFC so even a wild card still a shot (& you're schedule is not too tough to finish)

On topic, DT is obviously a massive need for ye

Chucky the tree · 04-12-2013 3:35pm

frostie500 wrote: »

Carr looks to be a quality QB and I've been impressed by him. He really needed to get into a BCS Bown to show what he can do but coming from a small school and being David's brother is sure to be held against him. Right or wrong QBs from different schools get treated differently (School A produces NFL ready QBs, School B produces system QBs) and having a bloodline to a former Number 1 overall bust is definitely something that will be counted against him too. It's not fair but that's the way of the NFL.

Being the brother of a former NFL bust has also given him a huge amount of media attention though.

kennyb3 · 04-12-2013 3:40pm

HigginsJ wrote: »

Am I missing something? 1 game out of share for lead of division. You are currently the 9 seed in the NFC so even a wild card still a shot (& you're schedule is not too tough to finish)

On topic, DT is obviously a massive need for ye

Share of it yes but Lions beat us twice. We are 2-6 since a 4-0 start. We've been beat by the Redskins and Vikes, RB's are having career days against us and our defence is in tatters. No way we make the play offs.

Ivefoundgod · 04-12-2013 4:46pm

matthew8 wrote: »

Ravens have a dire need on the offensive line. I'm not a fan of the run game but 3 yards per carry is a disgrace.

We've got major holes on the OL but it would be nice to get a stud WR opposite Torrey. Monroe at LT will stay presumably but we could do with a Center badly and Oher isn't likely to be re-signed I think so an RT too. With Osemele back at LG and Yanda at RG we should be OK.

nerd69 wrote: »

i dont know what the ravens line has been like but if its tackles ye need i dont think theres been a better year for them.

Michael Oher is likely to be a FA this year so we'll probably need a RT.

Silver-Tiger · 05-12-2013 12:55pm

Knex. wrote: »

He's 22, already married, and has a 1 year old kid. Christ. :eek:

Would GMs not look at this more positively than the usual animal who likes tio party with the boys at the weekend?

mikemac1 · 05-12-2013 1:24pm

Philip Rivers got married at 20 during his sophmore year in college

Just an obvious example of a QB in the same situation ^^^

Silver-Tiger · 05-12-2013 1:58pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Philip Rivers got married at 20 during his sophmore year in college

Just an obvious example of a QB in the same situation ^^^

His 7th kid with that same woman is on the way!

Knex* · 05-12-2013 2:01pm

Silver-Tiger wrote: »

Would GMs not look at this more positively than the usual animal who likes tio party with the boys at the weekend?

Quite probably, and I alluded to it in latter part of my post. Commitment and mentality that it shows is huge.

Just if he was in my circle of friends, I'd be slapping him across the head for getting married at 21. Spose that's still just the way things are in parts of America.

Edit: Rivers has 7 kids?! Mother of Christ.

D3PO · 05-12-2013 5:06pm

TO. wrote: »

Sure there is plenty of 1st round successes int he league right now but id say half the league is made up of QBs from the 3rd round or lower and FA. But I could be wrong.

.

It may feel like that but the truth is it's not the reality. 20 QB starters currently were first round picks.

Only 5 of the 32 teams starters were picked after the 3rd round.

Rd 1

Rodgers
Palmer
Ryan
Flacco
Manuel
Newton
Weeden
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Stafford
Luck
Alex Smith
Tannehill
Ponder
Brees
Rolithisberger
Rivers
Bradford
RG3
Cutler

Rd 2

Dalton
Hennie
Geno Smith
Kaepernick

Rd 3

Foles
Wilson
Glennon

Rd 6

Brady

Rd 7

Fitzpatrick

UDFA

Keenum
Romo
McGloin

davyjose · 05-12-2013 5:10pm

I dunno about that. Romo, Brady, Wilson, Schaub and maybe Pryor are the only starters week one who weren't 1st or 2nd rounders in week one, that I can think of at the top of my head. The best Qbs and by far most of the starting qbs in the league are firat rounders.
And 2 of those -- Pryor & Wilson -- beat out Matt Flynn for the job.

davyjose · 05-12-2013 7:09pm

Interesting to see there are 6 first overall picks still starting.
I think too that a lot of the guys like Brady and Wilson are obvious first round talent who would have won their jobs almost anywhere -- Bledsoe was a very solid QB for instance.
I think the later rounds aren't a good place to be drafted, moreso that you cant make it as a third rounder unless you have what it takes. Often first rounders get a free ride for a few years.

Mr. Guappa · 05-12-2013 10:47pm

Silver-Tiger wrote: »

His 7th kid with that same woman is on the way!

I guess that it's not just on the field that he needs better protection.

HigginsJ · 05-12-2013 11:16pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I guess that it's not just on the field that he needs better protection.

Maybe Antonio Cromartie could give him some advice on coverage :P

Chucky the tree · 06-12-2013 8:43am

I think TO's on the right track and he probably didn't phrase it best. If you look at the last 4 years there is a trend that teams who don't reach terribly on QB's have much better success finding ones in the mid-rounds.

1st round QB's since 2009:
Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Cam Newton, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannenhill, Brandon Weedon.

2nd-4th round QB's:
Stephen McGee, Jimmy Cluasen, Colt McCoy, Mike Kafka, Andy Dalton, Colin Kapernick, Ryan Mallet, Brock Osweiler, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins,

Not a huge difference in the number of great QB's taken in the first vs 2-4th. The 2nd-4th would look even better if I left out the 4th round. Far to many teams draft QB out of need and they end up failing.

Ivefoundgod · 06-12-2013 10:16am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think TO's on the right track and he probably didn't phrase it best. If you look at the last 4 years there is a trend that teams who don't reach terribly on QB's have much better success finding ones in the mid-rounds.

1st round QB's since 2009:
Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Cam Newton, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannenhill, Brandon Weedon.

2nd-4th round QB's:
Stephen McGee, Jimmy Cluasen, Colt McCoy, Mike Kafka, Andy Dalton, Colin Kapernick, Ryan Mallet, Brock Osweiler, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins,

Not a huge difference in the number of great QB's taken in the first vs 2-4th. The 2nd-4th would look even better if I left out the 4th round. Far to many teams draft QB out of need and they end up failing.

Yeah but when you need a QB the fan base put a lot of pressure on Owners to pick whatever QB is available when their pick comes up in the 1st round. Theres a lot of bad owners out there and only a few teams who do things the right way when it comes to the draft. The most successful teams in the draft pick talent regardless of need, look at teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh who've consistently been playoff contenders, they generally pick talent not need.

I still think a QB picked in the first round is generally in that round for a reason except for years with weak draft pools. The Gabbert, Ponder and Dalton was just a bad year to need a QB, even Dalton is terribly inconsistent in his play and the other two have no chance of maintaining a starting spot anywhere. I suspect Mallet isn't up to a whole lot either.

D3PO · 06-12-2013 4:23pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think TO's on the right track and he probably didn't phrase it best. If you look at the last 4 years there is a trend that teams who don't reach terribly on QB's have much better success finding ones in the mid-rounds.

1st round QB's since 2009:
Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Cam Newton, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannenhill, Brandon Weedon.

2nd-4th round QB's:
Stephen McGee, Jimmy Cluasen, Colt McCoy, Mike Kafka, Andy Dalton, Colin Kapernick, Ryan Mallet, Brock Osweiler, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins,

Not a huge difference in the number of great QB's taken in the first vs 2-4th. The 2nd-4th would look even better if I left out the 4th round. Far to many teams draft QB out of need and they end up failing.

Whilst I get what your trying to say it doesnt really have merit if you delve into it.

Lets take what you say and extend it out. Teams don't stretch for a QB in the first round that's fine but it doesnt change how QB's would be rated on teams boards so the order they get drafted would not really be impacted in a significant way.

So if it means a mark sanchez or a blaine gabbert go in the second round instead of the first, it doesnt change the fact they still go before the guys that went later in the draft than them.

Going in a later round doesnt make them any better, with the rookie payscale it also doesnt impact a teams investment in the player forcing them to stick with their "guy" nor does it stop that team for having a distinct need at that position, so wouldn't stop theres guys still being penciled in as the new starter.

So it serves no purpose other than to distort the stats on how many 1st round qbs are starters in the league.

Teams don't go out to reach for a QB if a team is drafting a QB high (in the top 2 rounds) they are doing so as theres a fundamental problem at that position in their club and they have to get the guy they evaluate to be the best on the board to try fix that issue.

They may well feel like they are overpaying for a guy in terms of the draft pick but a team needing a QB would be asleep at the wheel if rather than drafting one would risk grabbing one in later rounds hoping he would be their guy purely based on the statistical chances of hitting.

Chucky the tree · 06-12-2013 7:10pm

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Yeah but when you need a QB the fan base put a lot of pressure on Owners to pick whatever QB is available when their pick comes up in the 1st round. Theres a lot of bad owners out there and only a few teams who do things the right way when it comes to the draft. The most successful teams in the draft pick talent regardless of need, look at teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh who've consistently been playoff contenders, they generally pick talent not need.

I still think a QB picked in the first round is generally in that round for a reason except for years with weak draft pools. The Gabbert, Ponder and Dalton was just a bad year to need a QB, even Dalton is terribly inconsistent in his play and the other two have no chance of maintaining a starting spot anywhere. I suspect Mallet isn't up to a whole lot either.

That's why owners should be far more competent though and shouldn't set their aims/targets to those of the average fan.

D3PO wrote: »

Whilst I get what your trying to say it doesnt really have merit if you delve into it.

Lets take what you say and extend it out. Teams don't stretch for a QB in the first round that's fine but it doesnt change how QB's would be rated on teams boards so the order they get drafted would not really be impacted in a significant way.

So if it means a mark sanchez or a blaine gabbert go in the second round instead of the first, it doesnt change the fact they still go before the guys that went later in the draft than them.

Going in a later round doesnt make them any better, with the rookie payscale it also doesnt impact a teams investment in the player forcing them to stick with their "guy" nor does it stop that team for having a distinct need at that position, so wouldn't stop theres guys still being penciled in as the new starter.

So it serves no purpose other than to distort the stats on how many 1st round qbs are starters in the league.

Teams don't go out to reach for a QB if a team is drafting a QB high (in the top 2 rounds) they are doing so as theres a fundamental problem at that position in their club and they have to get the guy they evaluate to be the best on the board to try fix that issue.

They may well feel like they are overpaying for a guy in terms of the draft pick but a team needing a QB would be asleep at the wheel if rather than drafting one would risk grabbing one in later rounds hoping he would be their guy purely based on the statistical chances of hitting.

Going in later round gives them a chance to sit and learn which is what most of the QB's who have been hugely over-drafted needed to do. Sanchez had one season as a regular starter in college, expecting him to start off the bat is crazy. Same with Blaine Gabbert who was only a junior when drafted. If you look at the elite QB's - Brees, Manning, Rodgers and Brady - only one of those was a starter in their first season. Could just be a coincidence but a lot of QB's are thrown in as starters despite never earning it or showing they are capable.

There is also the fact that if you do draft them in later rounds you are only wasting a 2nd, 3rd etc round pick and not pissing a 1st round pick down the drain. Teams who have drafted a QB in the first round have passed on players who had genuine first round talent which is another reason why reaching for QB's is a poor idea.

D3PO · 06-12-2013 7:14pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Going in later round gives them a chance to sit and learn which is what most of the QB's who have been hugely over-drafted needed to do. .

Learn from who though .... They are drafted high because the team doesn't have a QB of quality. So you think they should learn from a QB not good enough to start and they will learn from it that makes no sense and would be seriously counter productive.

D3PO · 06-12-2013 7:20pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If you look at the elite QB's - Brees, Manning, Rodgers and Brady - only one of those was a starter in their first season. Could just be a coincidence but a lot of QB's are thrown in as starters despite never earning it or showing they are capable.

.

If your good enough your good enough.

Wilson, Luck, Big Ben, Flacco, Eli Manning. Its easy to take a group in isolation to make an argument one way or another. You carn argue they aren't elite but that group has 1 less ring than the elite group.

I don't think anybody would argue that sitting and learning from a top QB would be a negative, but if your being drafted high its because that person to sit and learn from doesn't exist.

and the argument that a QB cannot be successful from jumping in at the deep end cannot be made.

Chucky the tree · 06-12-2013 7:46pm

D3PO wrote: »

Learn from who though .... They are drafted high because the team doesn't have a QB of quality. So you think they should learn from a QB not good enough to start and they will learn from it that makes no sense and would be seriously counter productive.

You learn from the QB coach. QB's dont coach rookie. Favre certainly didn't spend lots of time helping out Aaron Rodgers. You also learn by improving your technique/footwork through lots of reps while not having to rely on what's natural.

D3PO wrote: »

If your good enough your good enough.

Wilson, Luck, Big Ben, Flacco, Eli Manning. Its easy to take a group in isolation to make an argument one way or another. You carn argue they aren't elite but that group has 1 less ring than the elite group.

I don't think anybody would argue that sitting and learning from a top QB would be a negative, but if your being drafted high its because that person to sit and learn from doesn't exist.

and the argument that a QB cannot be successful from jumping in at the deep end cannot be made.

Who says you need a top QB to learn from?

I never said a QB cannot be successful jumping in at the deep end. Some can and some can't. Teams should have a much better idea of who can and can't though. For example I think Bridgewater is good enough to start from day 1, starting Derek Carr from day 1 would be a terrible idea imo.

TO. · 06-12-2013 9:59pm

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

I suspect Mallet isn't up to a whole lot either.

Technically true but he is back up to Tom Brady right now and as he has yet to start a regular season game or take many snaps in a regular season game it is hard to judge whether he will be any good as a NFL starter.

TO. · 06-12-2013 10:37pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You learn from the QB coach. QB's dont coach rookie. Favre certainly didn't spend lots of time helping out Aaron Rodgers. You also learn by improving your technique/footwork through lots of reps while not having to rely on what's natural

Who says you need a top QB to learn from? I never said a QB cannot be successful jumping in at the deep end. Some can and some can't. Teams should have a much better idea of who can and can't though. For example I think Bridgewater is good enough to start from day 1, starting Derek Carr from day 1 would be a terrible idea imo.

Completely agree 100%. It is all about coaching. Look at some of the guys going to or in the HOF

Joe Montana had the help of Bill Walsh when he joined as a rookie

Tom Brady had the the uncredited help of Dick Rehbein and Charlie Weiss. Many don't know Rehbein mainly Pats fans but Vikes fans of the 80's should know who he is as he helped shape Rich Gannon. Gannon who then had a tremendous career with the Raiders under Gruden another master of QBs.

Brett Favre had the now HC of Kansas helping him as a OC assistant and QB coach, Andy Reid.

Peyton Manning was unique in a lot of ways as his own father had already been through the game as a Pro QB so he had a leg up all through his career but Bruce Arians was his first QB coach and Arians is known for being a good QB coach.

Aaron Rodgers has Tom Clements his whole career in the Packers. Clements a former Fighting Irish QB and CFL championship QB and is well known nowadays for his work as a QB coach or OC in the NFL.

As for other QB I will use one example but I could go through a lot more and point them out,

Jay Cutler had a decent QB coach in Jeremy Bates who was an assistant to Gruden and worked with Pete Carroll both at USC and Seattle. Bates is well known for his work with QBs.

Main point to this is QBs need solid coaching if they stand any chance in the Pros and a high % of those who went in the top two rounds have that or had that when they came in to the NFL. Obviously Tom Brady went late on but look at the coaches he had.

Now dont get me wrong all these guys had some to a lot of talent but to make it in the pros they need that backup support and coaching to add to the talent they already have. Those who walk into a starting spot right away and actually make it as a competent QB have had that said support and been given the green light by a crew of proper coaching. They have honed in their skills and added to what they already know through the dedicated hard work in the off season.

That same coaching staff are the ones who made the pick in the first place when it comes to a QB and generally the best coaches don't get it wrong as they know who they want and they know what they can do with them. If you look at all the rubbish QBs who went in the first that is most certainly down to teams reaching to high or grabbing someone on hype or coaches who generally fail anyways. They take the "best" QB in the draft in their eyes even if he might not be the right fit for them or their system or good to actually be coached to start right away. They may need a QB desperately but it doesn't mean the class in the draft has that right guy but yet they pick the best guy on their board anyways. It has been common practice in the NFL and will continue to happen.

Active QBs dont coach QBs, Coaches do. Behind every great QB is a good coach.

Ivefoundgod · 07-12-2013 3:18am

TO. wrote: »

Technically true but he is back up to Tom Brady right now and as he has yet to start a regular season game or take many snaps in a regular season game it is hard to judge whether he will be any good as a NFL starter.

Yeah agreed but what I meant was to show that draft class was very weak For QBs and so far Mallett hasn't shown or be given the chance to show what he's got. If he really was a hidden gem I'd imagine somebody would trade for him.

Syferus · 07-12-2013 3:40am

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Yeah agreed but what I meant was to show that draft class was very weak For QBs and so far Mallett hasn't shown or be given the chance to show what he's got. If he really was a hidden gem I'd imagine somebody would trade for him.

Eh? Like Cassel and Hoyer, you don't get a chance to show if you're any good in NE (or anywhere with a top-level QB) unless something happens to the starter. The key is no one knows if Mallett is any good as a starter in the NFL and there's no way anyone is going to give up the picks it would take for NE to shift their back-up when they haven't seen him play a competitive game in years.

robluvshandegg · 07-12-2013 7:01pm

I'm pretty sure the Texans are nailed on for the 1st pick. Remaining games @Colts, Broncos, @Titans.

Bridgewater or Clowney? Franchise QB or Clowney and Watt duo? I think they might go with the Clowney option, then take a QB later.

matthew8 · 07-12-2013 7:05pm

Bridgewater surely. If they take Clowney a few years down the line they will have to choose between letting Clowney or Watt become a free agent or tie up a massive amount of the cap in the starting defensive ends.

2014 NFL Draft

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