Go **** yourself THQ

richymcdermott · 06-02-2012 6:43pm #1

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/334692/xbox-720-pre-owned-games-block-would-be-fantastic-says-dev/

Soo much bull**** :pac:

cloud493 · 06-02-2012 6:52pm

Well most developers will say that won't they?

CORaven · 06-02-2012 7:00pm

richymcdermott wrote: »

Soo much bull**** :pac:

Such as?

Overheal · 06-02-2012 7:12pm

But I like THQ. They gave us Homeworld and the WH40k Games.

Well, they own the studios that gave us these things. Namely Relic. I heart Relic. Relic can't be evil.

the_syco · 06-02-2012 7:33pm

The loltastic bit is that everyone will just rent the game, complete the game over the weekend, and ive the game back. Why not buy? Because you can't sell it 3 days later when you have the game completed.

In saying that, welcome to the world of PC Gaming, that in the likes of Steam, etc, you can't sell your games 2nd hand. Wonder will the prices drop for console games if they do this?

super_furry · 06-02-2012 7:37pm

It's already happened on PC, it will eventually happen on console.

DjFlin · 06-02-2012 7:40pm

I'm okay with that...

Gummy Panda · 06-02-2012 7:42pm

It will kill shops like GAME and Gamestop

Myrddin · 06-02-2012 7:46pm

CORaven wrote: »

Such as?

[Insert obligatory politically correct comment here]

Who is anyone to say that something can't be sold as used? Imagine we all had to buy new houses, new cars, new phones, new this, new that. Yeah, we wouldn't find that politically correct at all would we?

But because of the potential revenue it would generate economy, it's deemed ok to validate this crap? Trading in & buying used games is nothing new, I remember being able to do it 15 years ago in Chapters & various swap shops.

Poor Activision for example, only €6 Billion in in two weeks. God help them. I'm sure there'll be plenty here that see this possible new direction as the savior of the gaming industry, I know I don't. It's a blatant money making exercise, cashing in on the politically correct brigades defense of it.

What happens if your disc gets scratched? Buy another full priced copy for something you've already bought the rights to use? Remember, you've paid for the game...not the disc.

super_furry · 06-02-2012 7:46pm

Gummy Panda wrote: »

It will kill shops like GAME and Gamestop

They'll just have to revert to being game shops rather than the glorified pawn shops they've become. For two weeks I've been trying to buy Saints Row the Third and Mortal Kombat on the Xbox and in trying two GAME shops and two Gamestops over the course of two weekends, I haven't been able to buy either of them new.

the_syco · 06-02-2012 7:50pm

I wonder how this will effect console piracy, in that people will always have to pay full price for a game?

Outkast_IRE · 06-02-2012 7:53pm

I have no problem with this, as long as it results with more money to the devolpers and not the big publishers.

Also Cut all this Downloadable crap and give it for free to people who genuinely buy the game , that would be worth it imo.

Myrddin · 06-02-2012 7:53pm

the_syco wrote: »

I wonder how this will effect console piracy, in that people will always have to pay full price for a game?

After having modded consoles for years, & looking at the way trends run...all this will do will make some 3rd party a lot of money. It'll be first to find a way around it wins. And again we'll have the unfortunate situation where DRM hurts the legit users most, while pirates have it easier.

gizmo · 06-02-2012 8:00pm

Why should THQ go **** themselves? This was the opinion of one developer, someone whose job relies on people buying games new so that the creators of the game make money, not the retailer, and they can stay in business.

EnterNow wrote: »

But because of the potential revenue it would generate economy, it's deemed ok to validate this crap? Trading in & buying used games is nothing new, I remember being able to do it 15 years ago in Chapters & various swap shops.

The problem, as has been pointed out upteen times, is not the simple act of trading in games, it's that retailers have jumped on it and taken it to obscene levels. There's a bunch of games in my collection that I simply wouldn't own due to missing the boat when they were released were it not for being able to get them from eBay or Adverts and it would be an awful shame if that were to end. Then again, if trends were to continue and more studios close and more original projects canned in order to make way for "safer" bets by publishers then that would be worse imo.

EnterNow wrote: »

Poor Activision for example, only €6 Billion in in two weeks. God help them. I'm sure there'll be plenty here that see this possible new direction as the savior of the gaming industry, I know I don't. It's a blatant money making exercise, cashing in on the politically correct brigades defense of it.

Why fall back on the biggest publisher in the world to make your point? Why not focus on the smaller developers and publishers who can't handle a massive chunk being taken out of their revenue by the burgeoning second hand market?

ShadowHearth · 06-02-2012 8:00pm

Muppet to say the least. Soon we won't own any games at all. We will just rent games for 60eu. There won't be any collections anymore, no more rare games on eBay as all games will be just locked for 1 console and make them useless.
So your Xbox5million will have blue square of death and all your games will be locked to that Xbox. So you won't be able just take on other Xbox to play. It will take days to go with customer support to reload your games for new replace my console.

Other option they got: account lock. You now lock your online passes to your account. So maybe it will be full lock on to account same as pc versions? Steam/origin etc?

Dunno. More and more I am put away from consoles as they are losing their qualities that makes them attractive.
I love now and then grab my mortal combat or forza 4 and take it to my buddies place to have an quiet evening with beer and button bashing fun. With new xblender I won't be able to do it. My buddy will have to buy his own copies or I would have to bring my own xblender.

jesus_thats_gre · 06-02-2012 8:08pm

I haven't thought about the finer details too much but on the surface of it, I am happy enough with this.

The trade in prices, and the subsequent markup when selling on, offered by the likes of Game are an absolute disgrace.

I do wonder what the overall implications of this will be for the industry. Will it drive the shelf price of new games down? Will the likes of Game etc be able to survive if this happens? Digital distribution will probably play a bigger part in things. Will PC gaming benefit from this - can't exactly trade in PC games.

Some interesting times ahead.

jesus_thats_gre · 06-02-2012 8:09pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

There won't be any collections anymore, no more rare games on eBay as all games will be just locked for 1 console and make them useless..

Would this really be the end of the world? Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of retro collections myself but.....

super_furry · 06-02-2012 8:12pm

But this is already how the PC market works. You buy a game online or off and you get a code that's unique to you and you alone. You're tied to that game, usually through Steam, and you can't ever sell it on or trade it in.

Gummy Panda · 06-02-2012 8:18pm

super_furry wrote: »

They'll just have to revert to being game shops rather than the glorified pawn shops they've become. For two weeks I've been trying to buy Saints Row the Third and Mortal Kombat on the Xbox and in trying two GAME shops and two Gamestops over the course of two weekends, I haven't been able to buy either of them new.

Thats the thing, i don't think they can survive under that model.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Muppet to say the least. Soon we won't own any games at all. We will just rent games for 60eu.

My prediction for the future is that games will become subscription or micro transaction based. I don't know if that's possible with a console market but I can see it going that way with pc market.

Myrddin · 06-02-2012 8:20pm

gizmo wrote: »

Then again, if trends were to continue and more studios close and more original projects canned in order to make way for "safer" bets by publishers then that would be worse imo.

Oh I'm very much all for supporting the smaller, innovative companies. You think Microsoft are doing this to help them though? Really?

gizmo wrote:

Why fall back on the biggest publisher in the world to make your point? Why not focus on the smaller developers and publishers who can't handle a massive chunk being taken out of their revenue by the burgeoning second hand market?

Because I can. You think the same people are gonna pay €55 euro, for a game they buy used for €20? I know I wouldn't. If I buy used games, I do so because they're more affordable. I'm in the same recession that the dev houses are. I know its not as simple as lowering prices to encourage sales, but ruling out the 2nd hand market is a step too far.

Nollog · 06-02-2012 8:28pm

CORaven wrote: »

Such as?

Unrealistic claim that "...consumers would be up in arms about it at first... they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them." is bullpoopie.
It's all well and good for them, but pre-owned games is a business now because they've priced their new games out of most people's market.

Good luck breaking a million when nobody can afford your games.
Also, very insensitive comment from THQ, but that's what they do.

ShadowHearth · 06-02-2012 8:29pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Would this really be the end of the world? Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of retro collections myself but.....

I am a very big pc gamer with a little bit of play time on consoles. So I know what they are doing with this, as I love love love steam and other retailers who offer downloadable version of games. The biggest strength of that - you can get great sales, because these platforms are very competitive.
Microsoft will have monopoly on this and they I won't let you have same account as steam, where you can manage all your games on one platform and redownloaded them when you want.
I don't buy used games anymore. And even if I bought them, they would be something very old and very cheap. If there were brand new version for 10eu more then used one ( no online pass in mind ) I would still go for brand new one. You still get better deals on new games online then any pre owned ones.

It's not the end of the world, but I am sick of simple way of: insert game and play, to be so complicated these days and in near future to be even more complicated.

Unfor

johnny_ultimate · 06-02-2012 8:35pm

Frankly, the second-hand market a huge reason why we don't see tightly focused, short but sweet single-player games any more. It's also why developers are wasting their time and resources developing multiplayer modes for games that don't need them. It's arguably also a significant factor in the lack of original, offbeat games receiving mainstream releases. It's part of the reason why Psychonauts or Beyond Good & Evil were commercial flops (also because most gamers are terrified of anything new or unique, but that's another argument).

It's all well and good blaming the corporations, and many of them are beyond defending in many aspects. But the second hand industry does significant harm to both experimentation and originality in gaming, IMO, as well as taking huge amounts of revenue away from the artists who deserve it, often for the sake of five euro or less.

That said, removing second-hand games entirely would result in many games being 'lost' to the ages. Imagine it was impossible or even illegal to sell on a Megadrive game! Even Steam won't last forever. Physical releases are probably still the safest, most reliable way to assume your game will still be playable in twenty years. Second hand market also ensures the availability or rarities and games that received smaller releases.

It's a complex argument, really, and I don't think either side hopping on a high horse is the most logical way to approach the argument.

Krusader · 06-02-2012 8:36pm

Sony will be rubbing their hands with glee, who says they'll implement this sort of shíte

Varik · 06-02-2012 8:50pm

Crosáidí wrote: »

Sony will be rubbing their hands with glee, who says they'll implement this sort of shíte

Of course they will and Nintendo too, they'll both wait till MS has taken the flak for it and then implement it.

gizmo · 06-02-2012 8:58pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Oh I'm very much all for supporting the smaller, innovative companies. You think Microsoft are doing this to help them though? Really?

MS will be doing this not only because of the pressure from third party publishers but also the fact that they themselves are publishers.

EnterNow wrote: »

Because I can. You think the same people are gonna pay €55 euro, for a game they buy used for €20? I know I wouldn't. If I buy used games, I do so because they're more affordable. I'm in the same recession that the dev houses are. I know its not as simple as lowering prices to encourage sales, but ruling out the 2nd hand market is a step too far.

Of course you can, it just weakens your point when you do it.

The issue here isn't the second hand games that are priced around the €20 when the new price is €55 (despite the fact I've hardly ever seen that happen), it's the games priced like this, where there is little difference between new and second hand and the retailers are filling their shelves with second hand copies rather than new ones in order to reap the potential profits.

/\/ollog wrote: »

Unrealistic claim that "...consumers would be up in arms about it at first... they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them." is bullpoopie.
It's all well and good for them, but pre-owned games is a business now because they've priced their new games out of most people's market.

Good luck breaking a million when nobody can afford your games.
Also, very insensitive comment from THQ, but that's what they do.

The prices of games hasn't changed since the days of the SNES, if anything they've become cheaper if you take inflation into account. Compare that with the astronomical rise in development costs and your argument is simply invalid.

And as I said above, "THQ" didn't make this comment, one developer did which is anything but insensitive.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Microsoft will have monopoly on this and they I won't let you have same account as steam, where you can manage all your games on one platform and redownloaded them when you want.

Are you saying you don't think MS will let you redownload your games whenever you want? Because they are already do that with the existing Live service.

ShadowHearth · 06-02-2012 9:05pm

gizmo wrote: »

MS will be doing this not only because of the pressure from third party publishers but also the fact that they themselves are publishers.

Of course you can, it just weakens your point when you do it.

The issue here isn't the second hand games that are priced around the €20 when the new price is €55 (despite the fact I've hardly ever seen that happen), it's the games priced like this, where there is little difference between new and second hand and the retailers are filling their shelves with second hand copies rather than new ones in order to reap the potential profits.

The prices of games hasn't changed since the days of the SNES, if anything they've become cheaper if you take inflation into account. Compare that with the astronomical rise in development costs and your argument is simply invalid.

And as I said above, "THQ" didn't make this comment, one developer did which is anything but insensitive.

Are you saying you don't think MS will let you redownload your games whenever you want? Because they are already do that with the existing Live service.

They let you redownload the online stuff, but I am prety sure you can't redownload dark souls if you got only the disc etc. you can download mw3 too if you got disc copy. With steam I can buy a physical disc and choose between online download or install from disc.

So if we will be able to have steam on xblender2000 with just MS badge on it, then why not! Though ms pricing was allways idiotic, even compared to steam.

Myrddin · 06-02-2012 9:10pm

gizmo wrote: »

MS will be doing this not only because of the pressure from third party publishers but also the fact that they themselves are publishers.

Interesting how much pressure, small, independant game companies can put on MS don't you think? This is all about $$$ for the big boys.

gizmo wrote:

Of course you can, it just weakens your point when you do it.

I'm not saying all games make $6 Billion in two weeks, obviously.

gizmo wrote:

The issue here isn't the second hand games that are priced around the €20 when the new price is €55 (despite the fact I've hardly ever seen that happen), it's the games priced like this, where there is little difference between new and second hand and the retailers are filling their shelves with second hand copies rather than new ones in order to reap the potential profits.

I got Black Ops for the 360 for €12 in Game used. It was roughly around €40 for the new copy. I take your point about when the used games are €5 off their new counterparts, that is a definite problem. But the big problem is there's no way to distinguish against both exampleswhen it comes to DRM. It's new or nothing, & that, I do not agree with

The prices of games hasn't changed since the days of the SNES, if anything they've become cheaper if you take inflation into account. Compare that with the astronomical rise in development costs and your argument is simply invalid.

And as I said above, "THQ" didn't make this comment, one developer did which is anything but insensitive.

Are you saying you don't think MS will let you redownload your games whenever you want? Because they are already do that with the existing Live service.[/QUOTE]

gizmo · 06-02-2012 9:11pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

They let you redownload the online stuff, but I am prety sure you can't redownload dark souls if you got only the disc etc. you can download mw3 too if you got disc copy. With steam I can buy a physical disc and choose between online download or install from disc.

So if we will be able to have steam on xblender2000 with just MS badge on it, then why not! Though ms pricing was allways idiotic, even compared to steam.

Ah yes, that kind of re-downloading. Personally I've always found that incredibly generous on Steam's behalf and although it's something I'd miss with other downloadable services, I don't think it's fair to criticise them for not having it.

As for their prices, totally agree on the insane front however from bits I've read elsewhere, it seems that external publishers and retailers are exerting unknown pressure in order to keep these as high as possible.

EnterNow wrote: »

Interesting how much pressure, small, independant game companies can put on MS don't you think? This is all about $$$ for the big boys.

The most pressure will be coming from the bigger companies of course, that doesn't mean that it's the smaller ones who are still, relatively speaking, suffering from it the most.

EnterNow wrote: »

I got Black Ops for the 360 for €12 in Game used. It was roughly around €40 for the new copy. I take your point about when the used games are €5 off their new counterparts, that is a definite problem. But the big problem is there's no way to distinguish against both exampleswhen it comes to DRM. It's new or nothing, & that, I do not agree with

Not to be picking on your examples but Activision games really aren't the best examples in this case. Wolverine and Prototype, for instance, stayed at an incredibly high price until over a year after release yet their second hand sales were far closer to the norm for a game of their age. I really don't think that's to do with the retailer so I'd imagine it's occurring higher up the chain at a distributor level.

johnny_ultimate · 06-02-2012 9:11pm

gizmo wrote: »

The prices of games hasn't changed since the days of the SNES, if anything they've become cheaper if you take inflation into account. Compare that with the astronomical rise in development costs and your argument is simply invalid.

Prices have indeed remained steady over the years. New generations tend to start expensive, only to radically decrease in price as the 'novelty' of a new console wears off. It's why it's foolish to pay 55+ euro for a new game these days when next store will have it for a fiver-tenner cheaper. And that's the high street. Online is significantly cheaper again (unless you're shopping on playdotcom

)!

Two significant things have changed since the SNES era, neither mutually exclusive:

1. The internet has grown bigger, and the gamers grown louder. There is now a medium for people to complain about "high" prices, whereas they always existed. Indeed, prestige games often cost close to three figure amounts.

2. We as a gaming community are constantly demanding more content, on a bigger scale, on better technology, for less money. This is in many ways completely unfeasible commercially. Gaming - bar the indie scene, and even then everyone needs to eat - is an industry, it's not a charity.

If you think we have it bad, go to Japan. Games tend to RRP for 7000-8000 yen, which is in and around 70-80 euro. This is accepted as standard. Sales are rarer and the second-hand industry limited.

I should stress that when we're talking about 'used' games the conversation needs to be restricted to 'new' titles (i.e. twelve months old or less) - the price of pre-owned games older than that, or indeed from older console generations, are largely irrelevant to the argument IMO (except PC, where there is a large 'sale' and retro industry). I also forsee significant issues with an entirely digital future, so as not to ignore those concerns.

Myrddin · 06-02-2012 9:22pm

gizmo wrote: »

Not to be picking on your examples but Activision games really aren't the best examples in this case. Wolverine and Prototype, for instance, stayed at an incredibly high price until over a year after release yet their second hand sales were far closer to the norm for a game of their age. I really don't think that's to do with the retailer so I'd imagine it's occurring higher up the chain at a distributor level.

Sorry if my example doesn't fit with your point, but nevertheless, I saved well over half the price of the game by buying it used.

I do take your point though, that its different to what we both agree on, which is that its wrong when used games are €5/€10 off a new copy. Thats entirely different.

Go **** yourself THQ

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