Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

DART+ (DART Expansion)

1…969799101102…330

Comments

  • #2942
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,234 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    liam24 wrote: »
    do not be silly enough
    You might post in a more constructive way.

    Moderator


  • #2943
    MrMorooka
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭MrMorooka


    As I saw on this thread, it seems one of the sites that may have been earmarked for DU is now being sold on the private market for redevelopment.

    It's the site in the North docklands where the entrance for the Docklands station was to be. Is this a consequence of the railway order expiring? Will there be provision made for future development of DU?

    iD9YzL3.png


  • #2944
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Since the railway order has lapsed, if its resurrected they will have to go through route selection , railway orders and planning all over again . Nothing will be the same


  • #2945
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,263 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    No FG really screwed the pooch on this one, we'll have to start again after they are ousted, probably in 2021.


  • #2946
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    cgcsb wrote: »
    No FG really screwed the pooch on this one, we'll have to start again after they are ousted, probably in 2021.


    Money isn't there for all the specified projects, we are subject to quite onerous EU regulations on Capital borrowing limits from this year onwards.

    doesnt matter who's in power


  • Advertisement
  • #2947
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,063 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    There's another site in around Christchurch in a similar position. It was the site for a ventilation shaft. All bets are off. Its back to the drawing board.


  • #2948
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    why didnt the government simply purchase these sites, you are talking about pocket change in the scheme of things. If the plans change, simply sell the sites at a later date...


  • #2949
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    why didnt the government simply purchase these sites, you are talking about pocket change in the scheme of things. If the plans change, simply sell the sites at a later date...


    They were being CPed under the provisions of the railway order, Otherwise the "Government " is just another commercial buyer and gets outbid frequently. The court case established that without a directive to proceed, the railway order had to fall and could not be extended. The Gov could not exact the CP without signing the process into action


  • #2950
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    could the government not have simply CPO'd them and sat on them and not do work until they decide to proceed, I wont say until "finances allow" as they did, they simply didnt want to build it now...

    the quicker the places grinds to a halt the better, they will start "planning" when the city is totally gridlocked, with current car sales and economic, employment and population growth, it shouldnt take too long!


  • #2951
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    could the government not have simply CPO'd them and sat on them and not do work until they decide to proceed, I wont say until "finances allow" as they did, they simply didnt want to build it now...

    I believe the government must exact the project under the railway order. They cannot simply do a " bit". this was all established in the court case. Basically the gov was told, enact the project or the Railway order must fall.( expire)


  • Advertisement
  • #2952
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I believe the government must exact the project under the railway order. They cannot simply do a " bit". this was all established in the court case. Basically the gov was told, enact the project or the Railway order must fall.( expire)
    had they started with the enabling works, I believe the cost was nothing, like 150 million, how long could they have stalled before the major money would have had to be spent?


  • #2953
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    had they started with the enabling works, I believe the cost was nothing, like 150 million, how long could they have stalled before the major money would have had to be spent?

    I think the process is that that CIE which doesnt have CP powers is given them under the railway order. CIE would then have to be subvented monies to allow them to buy the required properties. That money was not forthcoming , because it would have required the Gov to budget the whole DU project and there is no space for that at present under EU rules


  • #2954
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,063 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    BoatMad wrote: »
    because it would have required the Gov to budget the whole DU project and there is no space for that at present under EU rules

    And what makes you think that? The CPO aspect is a next step on a year on year basis.


  • #2955
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I wouldn't be too worried, by the time this is got round to the DU will be done using new technologies possibly teleporting or something more outlandish. There is no real appetite in govts to spend this much money on a project that won't be completed in time for the next election.


  • #2956
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,263 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Money isn't there for all the specified projects, we are subject to quite onerous EU regulations on Capital borrowing limits from this year onwards.

    doesnt matter who's in power

    We didn't need billions to carry out the CPOs and keep the project going, we didn't even need commitment to build it.


  • #2957
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,263 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    BoatMad wrote: »
    They were being CPed under the provisions of the railway order, Otherwise the "Government " is just another commercial buyer and gets outbid frequently. The court case established that without a directive to proceed, the railway order had to fall and could not be extended. The Gov could not exact the CP without signing the process into action

    They could easly CPO the land and leave it for decades if need be. They've done it before in plenty of locations.


  • #2958
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,063 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    cgcsb wrote: »
    We didn't need billions to carry out the CPOs and keep the project going, we didn't even need commitment to build it.

    This is well known, but Im really excited about BoatMad's response to this, because he/she sounds like a complete FG apologist, getting to the party a bit late.:D


  • #2959
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    cgcsb wrote: »
    We didn't need billions to carry out the CPOs and keep the project going, we didn't even need commitment to build it.
    Long term borrowing has never been so cheap as it is now with interest rates.

    On top of this, the EIB is asking for projects to help fund....these few years we are in now are a massive opportunity to efficiently invest in big ticket projects that will benefit the country for generations. Why don't people see and act on this?


    Drives me mad!


  • #2960
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    cgcsb wrote: »
    They could easly CPO the land and leave it for decades if need be. They've done it before in plenty of locations.

    not according to the court case they couldin this case. The court was clear , the Government had to sanction the project and provide funding , or the railway order had to fall, it couldnt even be extended any further.


  • #2961
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    This is well known, but Im really excited about BoatMad's response to this, because he/she sounds like a complete FG apologist, getting to the party a bit late.:D

    No Government of any shade with the Eurozone capital limits that are imposed could build DU , without killing loads of other projects

    DU is not the centre of the universe as far as capital project go.


  • Advertisement
  • #2962
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Drives me mad!

    then take the train !


  • #2963
    MrMorooka
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭MrMorooka


    BoatMad wrote: »
    DU is not the centre of the universe as far as capital project go.

    I disagree, it is/was the most important capital project in the country, it should have been prioritised over other projects.

    I also refuse to believe that the EU could be opposed to it, it's a no-brainier and would be guranteed to cover it's costs easily.


  • #2964
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    MrMorooka wrote: »
    I disagree, it is/was the most important capital project in the country, it should have been prioritised over other projects.

    I also refuse to believe that the EU could be opposed to it, it's a no-brainier and would be guranteed to cover it's costs easily.

    You can " believe " what you like, but the capital budget is significantly restricted by the conditions of the growth and stability pact. The Gov has gone right to the wire with its allowances and in fact has tried a few fast ones with the EU, much to their annoyance.

    The size of DU meant it cant be afforded at present . its also why thing alike the M20 got shelved. ( arguably an important road project)
    it is/was the most important capital project in the country,
    poppycock, its important but not that important and the phoenix parol tunnel can be used to implement some of its features

    I would argue that airport rail access is more pressing and also consideration is going to have to be given to either an outer ring motorway or a form of eastern bypass

    In the short term , projects like M11 bray upgrade are also very important


  • #2965
    MrMorooka
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭MrMorooka


    BoatMad wrote: »
    poppycock, its important but not that important and the phoenix parol tunnel can be used to implement some of its features

    We'll have to agree to disagree.
    BoatMad wrote: »
    I would argue that airport rail access is more pressing

    Yep, and DU would feed perfectly into that. As it stands, adding more Northern line services for an Airport service into a congested Connolly would be a non-runner. With DU, you could make a DART line of Hazelhatch-Heuston-SSG-Airport/Malahide, alternating services(Howth being a shuttle). Or you could do a cheap non-electrified spur and run 29ks from the Airport to GCD, change at Pearse for DART to Hesuton etc.

    That's the whole point of DU, it unlocks a lot of potential that is not being realised.

    But again, agree to disagree..


  • #2966
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,337 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    MrMorooka wrote: »

    Yep, and DU would feed perfectly into that. As it stands, adding more Northern line services for an Airport service into a congested Connolly would be a non-runner. With DU, you could make a DART line of Hazelhatch-Heuston-SSG-Airport/Malahide, alternating services(Howth being a shuttle). Or you could do a cheap non-electrified spur and run 29ks from the Airport to GCD, change at Pearse for DART to Hesuton etc.

    That's the whole point of DU, it unlocks a lot of potential that is not being realised.

    But again, agree to disagree..

    Would running 2900 stock to GCD actually save much capital expenditure as there are enough Darts to provide the service and all that would be saved would be the 7 km of electrification? During peak hours, the 2900 could supplement the Darts, but 2900 would not be that suitable to carry folk with heavy suitcases. The 2900s could be used for serving the Airport to points north.


  • #2967
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    But again, agree to disagree..

    I agree DU is important , I disagree to the extent of its importance

    lets say no more on this particular topic, what I mainly addressing was the Government has its hands tied at present and will do into the future on capital spending unless the economy grows a lot more.


  • #2968
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,337 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Government could (perhaps) get the EU to make DU one of its funded projects.


  • #2969
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The Government could (perhaps) get the EU to make DU one of its funded projects.

    I dont believe it can, in so much that it has no room in the budget under the rules


  • #2970
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I dont believe it can, in so much that it has no room in the budget under the rules

    It Can. The EIB would fund it...those rules are not as stringent on strategic capital investment that will certainly help economic growth, given Dublin, an ever-expanding and congested city is the engine of Ireland's economic growth.

    As I said, these years are a golden opportunity to cheaply fund such projects.


  • Advertisement
  • #2971
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,120 ✭✭✭plodder


    DU should be funded before any major new motorways, particularly in the East, where they're going to cost as much as it anyway,


Advertisement