Summons , no reg?

Kersh · 06-10-2008 6:41pm #1

Hi,

My Bro was stopped by a Garda when he pulled out of our estate with no lights on.

It was an honest mistake -

Anyhow, he got some summons in post today, none of which have the reg of the car on it. It actually says 'reg unknown' for all 7 of them. Will this actually matter on the court day?

One of the other summons is for no nct, another for driving on a provisional unnaccompanied,Driving with no lights is another, but one of them is for failure to produce a licence, which he did on the night to the garda that stopped him, and to prove this - how would the garda know he was driving on a provisional if he didnt see his licence??? So will this one matter on court day that the garda doesnt really have a clue what he is at?

He did have to produce his insurance, which he did at the station.

Any advice is much appreciated.

maidhc · 06-10-2008 6:57pm

I know people here will start hopping up and down and tell you your bro should offer up chosen parts of his anatomy for breaking the law, but:

It seems counter intuitive that a person can be convicted of anything if the car cannot be identified, particularly for something as vehicle specific as no NCT.

Obviously if the garda can recount the reg in court there won't be an issue, but if he can't it could be interesting. I would suggest getting a solicitor, for the simple reason that the first thing the judge will ask your brother in the witness box is "did you drive with no lights/no nct etc. Your bro will have to answer this, whereas a solicitor will be better placed to thrash out the techincal points.

It sounds like the Garda doesn't have a clue.

Kersh · 06-10-2008 7:00pm

Ah I know that the high and mightys will be on, - I couldn care less what they say. If it turns out he gets off cos the garda was useless at his job then its not my brothers fault.

All I want is some advice on the situation.

Cheers Maidhc

Our man in Havana · 06-10-2008 7:13pm

It could be like the time a summons was thrown out because the Grada said he stopped the offender on the 30th of February. The judge had a fit and suggested the Gardaí invested in a calender.

cyclopath2001 · 06-10-2008 7:18pm

Kersh wrote: »

One of the other summons is for no nct, another for driving on a provisional unnaccompanied,Driving with no lights is another, but one of them is for failure to produce a licence, which he did on the night to the garda that stopped him, and to prove this - how would the garda know he was driving on a provisional if he didnt see his licence??? So will this one matter on court day that the garda doesnt really have a clue what he is at?

He's reqired by law to have his license with him when driving. Producing at the station just gets him off not having any license at all, but he still has committed the offense of not having it on his person when driving.

If he's committed the other offenses, he should plead guilty and pay the price rather than waste Garda and court time.

chickenhawk · 06-10-2008 7:21pm

For the second time in as many months I was followed up my laneway at night by the guards and told I was speeding. Both times I wasn't on the section of road they were talking about, I pulled out onto it and they just presumed it was me. The first time they believed me the second time they didn't, which is silly because it's a 750m distance between my lane and the road I joined on so why would I speed. Went to court and I had a lawyer ask for proof more then it was a red car. Thankfully the judge believed me and the people who's house I had just left that night.

So get a lawyer, more than likely most if not all of them will not stand up in court.

Anan1 · 06-10-2008 7:21pm

I'm with maidhc on this one - i'd get a solicitor and let them sort it out.

maidhc · 06-10-2008 7:32pm

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

He's reqired by law to have his license with him when driving. Producing at the station just gets him off not having any license at all, but he still has committed the offense of not having it on his person when driving.

If he's committed the other offenses, he should plead guilty and pay the price rather than waste Garda and court time.

Go away

Our man in Havana · 06-10-2008 7:33pm

I would rather pay a solicitor than offer myself up as a sacrificial lamb.

Fey! · 06-10-2008 7:35pm

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

He's reqired by law to have his license with him when driving. Producing at the station just gets him off not having any license at all, but he still has committed the offense of not having it on his person when driving.

Didn't the OP say that he showed the Garda the license on the night he was stopped? It would be nice of you to actually read the post once in a while. :rolleyes:

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

If he's committed the other offenses, he should plead guilty and pay the price rather than waste Garda and court time.

I'm normally the pro-garda person on these threads, but I'd say talk to a solicitor; it doesn't sound as if the garda was giving this his full attention; considering he couldn't be bothered to write down the reg or the fact that he was shown the license on the spot, who's to say he looked for the NCT disc? Or the fully licensed passenger?

Driving with no lights is stupid, but most people will do it by accident at some point (leaving well lit areas, etc).

What were the rest of the summons for (you said there were 7, but I only see 4 offences)? Or will they make me change my mind... :P

chickenhawk · 06-10-2008 8:05pm

Fey! wrote: »

What were the rest of the summons for (you said there were 7, but I only see 4 offences)? Or will they make me change my mind... :P

Driving without number plates!

Kersh · 06-10-2008 8:11pm

Driving without number plates!

Ok, here goes -

Driving with no lights
Driving without a licence :rolleyes:
Failing to produce a licence within 10 days.
Driving with no nct
Failure to produce an nct
Not displaying an nct in the window
Driving with no L plates

Thats all 7..

Me thinks the solicitor route is the way to go...

Cheers All

groupb · 06-10-2008 8:14pm

Do you think he should still be allowed to drive?

ytareh · 06-10-2008 8:19pm

Yes

Mr. Presentable · 06-10-2008 8:25pm

Kersh wrote: »

Ok, here goes -

Driving with no lights
Driving without a licence :rolleyes:
Failing to produce a licence within 10 days.
Driving with no nct
Failure to produce an nct
Not displaying an nct in the window
Driving with no L plates

Thats all 7..

Me thinks the solicitor route is the way to go...

Cheers All

You mentioned driving unaccompanied in the first post as a charge, but now it's gone. A provisional or Learners permit is not a license anymore. Out of curiosity, what was he driving? And I presume it was a street lit area,an easy mistake to make?

I too would go to a solicitor, but to be honest you're looking for a loophole because that's a fistful of offenses right there!

chickenhawk · 06-10-2008 8:25pm

groupb wrote: »

Do you think he should still be allowed to drive?

Ya his driving skills were really poor and the world would be a better place if he was put off the road! :rolleyes:

What has no nct etc got to do with driving skills? Mine was out of date by three months till last week, the reason why.......bloody waiting list at the test centre and days I could attend. Now I have an nct i'm much safer.

Mr. Presentable · 06-10-2008 8:27pm

If I was the Justice I throw out the nct ones because they relate to an unidentified car. The rest, however, are about the driver, not the car, and would stick.

Kersh · 06-10-2008 8:33pm

You mentioned driving unaccompanied in the first post as a charge, but now it's gone. A provisional or Learners permit is not a license anymore. Out of curiosity, what was he driving? And I presume it was a street lit area,an easy mistake to make?

Sorry, I thought that offense was in the summons'.

Yep, street lit area, easy enough mistake to make

Do you think he should still be allowed to drive?

No, im going to hang him later, just for you. :rolleyes:

TheNog · 06-10-2008 8:35pm

Kersh wrote: »

Ok, here goes -

Driving with no lights - this is pure stupid summons and a waste of paper. Should be struck out
Driving without a licence :rolleyes: - produce driving licence at the court and this will be struck out
Failing to produce a licence within 10 days. - if you produced at the roadside, then ye say that
Driving with no nct - could get a fine for this one
Failure to produce an nct - if it is established you had no NCT on the day, then ye cant be expected to produce one. Will probably be struck out
Not displaying an nct in the window - same as above
Driving with no L plates - ah this one could sting in the pocket

Thats all 7..

Me thinks the solicitor route is the way to go...

Cheers All

See my comments above in your post. Solicitor is the route to go. If the reg no. was not on the summons your solicitor should exploit this.

I would not go as far to say the Garda was/is useless at his job. Just a simple oversight. Has happened before. I'm actually surprised that when he did realise he didnt have the reg no of the car that he still went ahead with creating the summons. Although having said he could have it written in his notebook but simply didnt put it into the summons.

Dont not take this as legal advice but rather my opinion only.

Lucifer · 06-10-2008 8:54pm

I was in a similar situation before. I was pulled in while driving a friends car. I produced my licence and my insurance as I was asked and the car was taxed, ncted and insured. A few months later I recieved a few summon's for not producing licence, insurance, nct and driving without displaying discs, and driving uninsured. They all said registration unknown. I went down to the Garda station and spoke to the garda involved and explained the situation to him and he said that as there was no registration that it could not stand up in court and he told me he would sort it out. He called me a few days later to let me know that it was sorted out and that was the end of it. I know in my situation it was just that they had mixed up reg numbers with the fact that I was driving a different car to that on my insurance but the same may apply to your situation even though you say your brother did comit some of the offences. The garda did say himself that they would not stand up in court. Probably best to get some legal advice to be sure.

groupb · 06-10-2008 9:43pm

Kersh wrote: »

Hi,

My Bro was stopped by a Garda when he pulled out of our estate with no lights on.

It was an honest mistake -

Anyhow, he got some summons in post today, none of which have the reg of the car on it. It actually says 'reg unknown' for all 7 of them. Will this actually matter on the court day?

One of the other summons is for no nct, another for driving on a provisional unnaccompanied,Driving with no lights is another, but one of them is for failure to produce a licence, which he did on the night to the garda that stopped him, and to prove this - how would the garda know he was driving on a provisional if he didnt see his licence??? So will this one matter on court day that the garda doesnt really have a clue what he is at?

He did have to produce his insurance, which he did at the station.

Any advice is much appreciated.

How is driving an untested car when not qualified to drive with no lights an honest mistake?

unkel · 06-10-2008 9:52pm

groupb wrote: »

How is driving an untested car when not qualified to drive with no lights an honest mistake?

The OP referred to the driving without lights as an honest mistake. Now if you are not going to be helpful, please don't post on this thread at all. That's a general warning, folks.

groupb · 08-10-2008 8:32pm

unkel wrote: »

The OP referred to the driving without lights as an honest mistake. Now if you are not going to be helpful, please don't post on this thread at all. That's a general warning, folks.

Ok , so the lights bit may have been an honest mistake. My advice , throw yourself at the mercy of the court. But I still think they will take the other offences into account , so be prepared for some sanctions.
I only commented on the "offences" that the OP related to and my opinion is still the same. The OP's brother knowingly commited them. Not every opinion on boards is helpful , but I was under the impression that different opinions make these discussions interesting and might throw a different light on a topic. Whether thats helpful or not is surely up to the person that reads it.

Steve · 08-10-2008 9:26pm

In fairness, the whole no reg number excuse seems pretty weak. After all, the accusation was that 'a person' drove while blah blah blah contrary to section x of the road traffic act etc.. - my point is: it does not matter which specific vehicle they broke the law in as long as there is evidence. I don't think a Judge should throw it out because the reg wasn't on the summons.

Our man in Havana · 08-10-2008 9:38pm

Wait and see. The court doesn't concern itself with morals. The law is the law. If the charges are defective they are struck out. Simple.

jaybee747 · 09-10-2008 2:11pm

get yourself a solicitor most of the time if the information is not correct it will be stricken and a solicitor will fight his case otherwise.

Summons , no reg?

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