Killer Instinct Discussion Thread

2gen · 15-08-2013 10:01pm

Ramza wrote: »

Lol look how ridiculously broken he looks, does game balance ever enter their heads at all when designing this ****?

Ramza, if you don't have anything constructive to say.... best not to say anything at all. Not saying you have to like this game, but the constant bitching is getting annoying... no offence.

Nutrient · 15-08-2013 10:12pm

2gen wrote: »

Ramza, if you don't have anything constructive to say.... best not to say anything at all. Not saying you have to like this game, but the constant bitching is getting annoying... no offence.

ladnopoka · 15-08-2013 10:15pm

look at the godlike head stomping from that skinny t hawk

deathrider · 16-08-2013 1:44am

Damn, I can't watch this on my phone. I've been doing to see what they've done with Chief Thunder. I'll give this video a spin tomorrow.

Ramza · 16-08-2013 2:44am

2gen wrote: »

Ramza, if you don't have anything constructive to say.... best not to say anything at all. Not saying you have to like this game, but the constant bitching is getting annoying... no offence.

How is that a facepalm what I said

What I said was very constructive :pac:

I haven't bitched at this game at all, I've been critical and pointed out flaws, but I am not being facetious, I am being serious in what I say. IMO it's fate is pretty much already sealed in the fact that it's an xbox one exclusive. In fact I wrote a pretty long post giving my two cents on the game mechanics and overall it doesn't look too bad, it's just that KI's mechanics never allowed for high level gameplay. That's why high level KI revolved around working around the mechanics themselves. KI has never been a competitive game because of its nature. I dunno, I just don't want this game to follow suit I guess. But let's be serious, if I sat down one of these developers I would FLATOUT say what I just did, and I would very much mean it constructively. Like, I can't fathom how they think this character design along with Glacius is balanced.

Are you not one to agree with criticism? Isn't that what criticism is? Yknow..being critical? Obviously nothing critical is going on in these guys heads. That's how games get balanced. People play/see and then tell developers whats wrong. Me and countless other people are doing it right now, in fact I've talked to a few of the old KI vets I still talk to personally and a lot are just meh, a famous player called KIG I talked to recently said "this game looks like it could be played with two buttons, it's two japanese styled, that's not what KI is", and in a way, he has a point. But I suppose the developers wanted to developed it in this style, and that doesn't bother me. I just don't understand what's with the messed up character designs. Like, that was an integral reason why KI failed in the first place, the characters were so messed up

Glacius has an unblockable special that hits from underneath you, cost no meter, and is quick, can be done fullscreen....like, need I say any more? THIS kind of thing should not be in a fighting game. Like, we're only 4 characters deep, and madness is ensuing :pac: It's like to me they're saying "yeah, all the previous KIs were broken as ****, had stupid ****, and had no high level metagame outside of working around the mechanics themselves, let's make another ****ed up broken game that no one will play", that's what it looks like to me when I see this game. It's got stuff going for it, but this whack character design needs to stop, seems like an emerging trend with this game

There's no EASY way to say this

Sairus · 16-08-2013 3:24am

Speaking of character designs, at least from a visual point Thunder looks pretty damn badass.

Fully invincible special cancelable dash during Instinct is pretty hilarious though.

It's definitely weird the way they're going about this. It feels like they want you to be starting combos all the time and have given every character insane offensive options to do that. They've also given so many methods of breaking and counter breaking so it's like they want to have the entire match take place within that combo/breaker situation.

Ramza · 16-08-2013 3:45am

Thunder looks amazing aesthetically, I wish the same could be said for Glacius. It is very obscure, the system mechanics seem like they contradict each other, I can't think of how to explain it. They could definitely make this game great if they make some changes

Nutrient · 16-08-2013 7:15am

Ramza wrote: »

How is that a facepalm what I said

What I said was very constructive :pac:

I haven't bitched at this game at all, I've been critical and pointed out flaws, but I am not being facetious, I am being serious in what I say. IMO it's fate is pretty much already sealed in the fact that it's an xbox one exclusive. In fact I wrote a pretty long post giving my two cents on the game mechanics and overall it doesn't look too bad, it's just that KI's mechanics never allowed for high level gameplay. That's why high level KI revolved around working around the mechanics themselves. KI has never been a competitive game because of its nature. I dunno, I just don't want this game to follow suit I guess. But let's be serious, if I sat down one of these developers I would FLATOUT say what I just did, and I would very much mean it constructively. Like, I can't fathom how they think this character design along with Glacius is balanced.

Are you not one to agree with criticism? Isn't that what criticism is? Yknow..being critical? Obviously nothing critical is going on in these guys heads. That's how games get balanced. People play/see and then tell developers whats wrong. Me and countless other people are doing it right now, in fact I've talked to a few of the old KI vets I still talk to personally and a lot are just meh, a famous player called KIG I talked to recently said "this game looks like it could be played with two buttons, it's two japanese styled, that's not what KI is", and in a way, he has a point. But I suppose the developers wanted to developed it in this style, and that doesn't bother me. I just don't understand what's with the messed up character designs. Like, that was an integral reason why KI failed in the first place, the characters were so messed up

Glacius has an unblockable special that hits from underneath you, cost no meter, and is quick, can be done fullscreen....like, need I say any more? THIS kind of thing should not be in a fighting game. Like, we're only 4 characters deep, and madness is ensuing :pac: It's like to me they're saying "yeah, all the previous KIs were broken as ****, had stupid ****, and had no high level metagame outside of working around the mechanics themselves, let's make another ****ed up broken game that no one will play", that's what it looks like to me when I see this game. It's got stuff going for it, but this whack character design needs to stop, seems like an emerging trend with this game

There's no EASY way to say this

I agree

Some of the mechanics sound flat out retarded, full screen unblockable, seriously

We'll see how this 1v1 marvel pans out I guess, I hope it's merely exaggeration with the potential of charcters in this, given that theres less then 6, an unbalanced game lacking quantity of characters is forboding to say the least.

So long as it's fun what the big deal, right?.

Doctor DooM · 16-08-2013 9:41am

To be fair Ben, I think most people's eyebrows were raised with the fullscreen comboable unblockable low projectile from Glacius, but an invincible special cancellable dash does sound absolutely mental, even if it can only be used 10% of the time or whatever. It's like the stuff you see on saltybet

UberPrinny_Baal · 16-08-2013 10:58am

I actually agree with Ben's sentiment. I'm not really interested in opinions based off of gameplay footage (which doesn't let you know if it's fun) or opinions based on second-hand accounts of other players.

As soon as somebody here puts their hands on the game, by all means, tell us what you think.

But until then this is reminding me of Injustice, where everyone had nothing but bad things to say about every aspect of the gameplay and aesthetics.

Then as soon as the game came out, the bitching stopped so fast it was like it never happened.

Doctor DooM · 16-08-2013 11:01am

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

I actually agree with Ben's sentiment. I'm not really interested in opinions based off of gameplay footage (which doesn't let you know if it's fun) or opinions based on second-hand accounts of other players.

As soon as somebody here puts their hands on the game, by all means, tell us what you think.

But until then this is reminding me of Injustice, where everyone had nothing but bad things to say about every aspect of the gameplay and aesthetics.

Then as soon as the game came out, the bitching stopped so fast it was like it never happened.

Ah here I complain constantly about the aesthetics in IJ

And yes, it's idle speciulation. What happens if it's a case like AE where the speculation was correct?

UberPrinny_Baal · 16-08-2013 11:09am

Doctor DooM wrote: »

And yes, it's idle speciulation. What happens if it's a case like AE where the speculation was correct?

Then no impact was made on the eventual game balance either way.

Doctor DooM · 16-08-2013 11:12am

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Then no impact was made on the eventual game balance either way.

It did, we got 2012 that was made specifically to deal with the problems in AE (that people had been complaining about since a long time before release).

Sairus · 16-08-2013 11:35am

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Then as soon as the game came out, the bitching stopped so fast it was like it never happened.

Everyone else was just quitters. I never let the side down.

GorySnake · 16-08-2013 12:11pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

It did, we got 2012 that was made specifically to deal with the problems in AE (that people had been complaining about since a long time before release).

But in that case AE was out for about 6 months on arcades before it came to consoles, those complaints were still from people actually playing the game rather than looking at a gameplay trailer.

Doctor DooM · 16-08-2013 12:43pm

GorySnake wrote: »

But in that case AE was out for about 6 months on arcades before it came to consoles, those complaints were still from people actually playing the game rather than looking at a gameplay trailer.

In the case of Honda, Guile and Boxer players it was actually from the change list, not from the arcade.

Regardless this is a weak argument from me I know, but opinions are like assholes, you can't say Ramza is wrong because he's worried on the basis of what sounds like mental move attributes- as we rightly were with AE.

Ramza · 16-08-2013 2:24pm

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

I actually agree with Ben's sentiment. I'm not really interested in opinions based off of gameplay footage (which doesn't let you know if it's fun) or opinions based on second-hand accounts of other players.

As soon as somebody here puts their hands on the game, by all means, tell us what you think.

I disagree with your point of view. I mean, as far as mechanics go, I can only speculate, and my opinion is just that, it's an opinion. The mechanics themselves seem a little odd. The shadow breaker system needs to be looked at. Something as simple as making shadow breakers cost instinct meter would put a really clever and balanced spin on the metagame. Just something simple like this, aswell as other changes following the same suit, need to be implemented.

Jago regains health too quick in instinct, etc. There's things I can point out that I can see in videos, that are wrong with this game. And it's simple to see this imo, I'm just waiting for the first balance patch or something, it will say "Jago's health regain in instinct mode has been nerfed", I'd bet my life on it :pac:

But, I have seen the gameplay footage of this game, of the broken character designs, it's not like I or anyone else is imagining it, it's real. If it was the case that the character wasn't revealed on a video medium and I had no visual confirmation or visual representation of the character I'd be writing a very different post right now. This game is looking like a combo breaker fest. Combo breakers are so simple to do, shadow breakers make no sense, the risk/reward is topsy turvy in this game right now. And that's not even mentioning the character design. No one wants their combos broken. And I can see what they went for with the counter breaker system, but again, the risk reward of this mechanic is again not in tune with what it probably should be. I can see the same thing happening with this game as what happened with the other KIs, people will find unbreakable combos or someway to work around the breaker system. Then the game becomes ruined. I hope that doesn't happen, because the counter breaker system seems clever, but at the end of the day, a 100% unbreakable combo is much better than a high risk counter breaker

But then again, I can't fully speak about the mechanics, I haven't experienced them and the game is only in early development, so take what I say with a grain of salt (not that anyone doesn't :pac:). But I've always been a massive fan of KI. The characters are amazing, the music, everything. It just shocks me to see it go down this path but this seems to be what KI always has been, just a bit of fun with no competitive appeal. But it's 2013 this time around, there's no excuse for having ridiculously broken stuff in these games anymore

I know my opinions are very bluntly expressed, but I don't feel like there's anyway to sugarcoat this. Ironically, I'm not going to be buying this game, because I plan on owning a PS4, so you may argue my opinion is pointless and/or invalid. But as a FG fan and a KI fan, I think my opinions aren't harsh and are quite fair.

deathrider · 16-08-2013 7:53pm

...
...
...
...
... I miss the mohawk.

Doctor DooM · 16-08-2013 8:07pm

deathrider wrote: »

...
...
...
...
... I miss the mohawk.

It'd be awesome if he got a glowing mohawk when he activated trait!

2gen · 16-08-2013 8:38pm

I'm aware I came out quite blunt but I really wasn't trying to be sarcastic when I said "no offence" to Ramza.

Also before I continue I also want to state that I'm not just accepting everything DH is showing us and thinking "oh geez, thats awesome, best game of 2013" etc.

i understand how outrageous the Glacius full screen unblockable sounds and the fact that he has a super armour "Instinct Mode". also with the recent Thunder announcement with his classic Mohawk DP (though he doesn't really have one any more but you know what i mean) move being projectile invincible and his Instinct Mode, as you put it Doom, was definitely eye-brow raising. but the way i see it, you can't compare this game with others like SF, Marvel, Tekken, MK or IGAU because it is a different game entirely.

if this game was USF4 and Sim had a full screen unblockable and T-Hawk had that special dash then yeah, i would be totally on board with the criticisms because we all know the SF4 engine inside out. but just because these new ideas may be extremely broken in SF, it doesn't mean it will be the same for this upcoming title that none of us have played yet.

as a fan of the classic KI, im very curious on how this title will turn out. so far from reading from those who played it at Evo/Super Arcade, they've said it was a blast. and also watching the matches of devs vs Max (people who have put hours/days/weeks into the game and not just 20mins), things didn't look as crazy as it does on paper. to me it looks like a very aggressive SF at the moment.

also, im totally open to the possibility that some things may be broken. in the case of breakers being to easy to pull off, its already been stated that its been looked into. i can imagine they may make the timing tighter so you can't just mash on the breaker buttons. this is the reason why they are taking the game to events and such just to hear the suggestions of others. but even if the game is released, and there are things that are discovered that are totally broken, i never said there wouldn't be any but i would think its unfortunate.

anyway, i'm just waiting on Gamescon to see Chief Thunder in action and not make my final verdict on the character based on a 5min interview with some gameplay shown in between.

deathrider wrote: »

...
...
...
...
... I miss the mohawk.

thats the first thing i thought when i saw the concept art/demo

Ramza · 16-08-2013 9:57pm

I think what they're doing is fantastic, KI was a fantastic game outside of how imbalanced the originals were, I think it had so much stuff going for it design wise, a lot of people have memories of playing KI at their mates house or in an arcade, it's a memorable title and its fantastic to see it get a new generation rendition. This will reel in a lot of old school players the same way SFIV did back in '09, and that's what it's all about. I think the system mechanics are quite good, lockout is good like I said before, I just think it should last a bit longer, you should be punished a bit more for guessing wrong on a breaker.

I agree and I disagree (if that makes sense?) about your point that you can't compare this game to others because we haven't played it. Yes, it is a new game with an engine we haven't had hands on with yet, so I can't criticize it at all apart from mere speculation, and also the game is in its early stages, but you have to remember this is a 2D Fighting Game, just like SF. The same general balance principles carry over and still apply here, i.e, is this move too good for its meter cost? Should character X really have this move? Is Y too strong? And so on. I think it's fair to call out these ridiculous moves as broken, regardless whether I have played this game or not. This kinda thing is integral to game balance, this is why KI failed in the first place, the characters were whack

What happened to Thunder's fireball?! I guess they didn't want to give a grappler a projectile (shoutouts to Seth :pac: )

2gen · 16-08-2013 10:14pm

Ramza wrote: »

I think what they're doing is fantastic, KI was a fantastic game outside of how imbalanced the originals were, I think it had so much stuff going for it design wise, a lot of people have memories of playing KI at their mates house or in an arcade, it's a memorable title and its fantastic to see it get a new generation rendition. This will reel in a lot of old school players the same way SFIV did back in '09, and that's what it's all about. I think the system mechanics are quite good, lockout is good like I said before, I just think it should last a bit longer, you should be punished a bit more for guessing wrong on a breaker.

I agree and I disagree (if that makes sense?) about your point that you can't compare this game to others because we haven't played it. Yes, it is a new game with an engine we haven't had hands on with yet, so I can't criticize it at all apart from mere speculation, and also the game is in its early stages, but you have to remember this is a 2D Fighting Game, just like SF. The same general balance principles carry over and still apply here, i.e, is this move too good for its meter cost? Should character X really have this move? Is Y too strong? And so on. I think it's fair to call out these ridiculous moves as broken, regardless whether I have played this game or not. This kinda thing is integral to game balance, this is why KI failed in the first place, the characters were whack

What happened to Thunder's fireball?! I guess they didn't want to give a grappler a projectile (shoutouts to Seth :pac: )

Don't get me wrong, i do agree with a lot of what you say but usually when i see a single sentence such as... "does game balance ever enter their heads at all when designing this ****?" it doesn't really come out as constructive criticism to me.

also the fact i don't know you too well since i'm not a SF player i don't know if you're just messing or if that was a "knee jerk reaction" response of someone who is pretty pissed of how things are developing.

all in all, i hope there aren't any hard feeling since i didn't intend to create any, and i'm not exactly best with words so i'm aware i can come out the wrong way sometimes such as this.

finally, when you mention KIG, do you mean KIG666? ive seen his name everywhere on the Youtube comments and the DH forums and he is clearly not happy with this game. do you know him personally?

Ramza · 16-08-2013 11:47pm

2gen wrote: »

all in all, i hope there aren't any hard feeling since i didn't intend to create any, and i'm not exactly best with words so i'm aware i can come out the wrong way sometimes such as this.

finally, when you mention KIG, do you mean KIG666? ive seen his name everywhere on the Youtube comments and the DH forums and he is clearly not happy with this game. do you know him personally?

No hard feelings at all, why would there be

2gen wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, i do agree with a lot of what you say but usually when i see a single sentence such as... "does game balance ever enter their heads at all when designing this ****?" it doesn't really come out as constructive criticism to me.

I have a habit of being very blunt and to the point with things

Yes, KIG666. I don't know him personally (I know some other old KI vets personally, all really cool guys!), but I used to talk to him a lot back in '04 (I know that means nothing as that date doesn't pertain to any particular FG), he was one of the better players and made some amazing combo videos for KI. He was an active member in the KI scene, seems like a nice guy but very opinionated haha! But I do agree, Ki "vet" or not, these guys opinions are just that, opinions, they hold no more weight than anyone elses. I'm all for a new FG, esp if it's a new version of KI, I really just hope they address some of these issues! Hopefully in time the loctests will serve for good feedback resources

2gen · 17-08-2013 4:17pm

Just thought i'd put this comment from FilthieRich here concerning Thunder's Instinct mode since i'm sure all of us (including myself) was wondering if it was a little too much.

FilthieRich: The dash has been moderated so that your dashes arent your primary move The important part is managing your space when Instinct is activated. Dashing too much can also get you killed if you are dashing~special without any specific reason.

The variables that come into play are - meter resource, distance from the wall, and how you want to position yourself, your lifebar vs theirs. It's fun to see your opponent really have to analyze their want to attack you once you pop instinct.

also from David Verfaillie (Design Director) through Twitter

"@DomNecro We've toned it down a bit while balancing for Gamescom- less distance, invuln only 1st half. But its still hella good, fear him."

2gen · 20-08-2013 5:18pm

Gamescom demo with Ken Lobb.
Includes: new colours for Wulf, Jago and Thunder, Thunder's stage and a (really) basic breakdown of Thunder himself with Ultra at the end.

im still waiting for a proper match footage. stuff is slowly being uploaded on Youtube but as you can imagine, the people playing those matches are 1st-timers so the gameplay is scrubby.

deathrider · 20-08-2013 5:27pm

I like the way Thunder throws the knees into his combos just like he did in the original.

1man3letters · 20-08-2013 6:15pm

more info on price, bundles, release roster and "season 2"

http://testyourmight.com/threads/new-killer-instinct-pricing-schemes-initial-roster-size-updated.37215/

2gen · 20-08-2013 6:26pm

1man3letters wrote: »

more info on price, bundles, release roster and "season 2"

http://testyourmight.com/threads/new-killer-instinct-pricing-schemes-initial-roster-size-updated.37215/

been reading about this. not too many people are happy about this including myself. i'm not raging like what can be seen on like Eventhubs... just a little disappointed that only 8 characters (6 at launch) is all we're getting for a while. you can only point the finger at MS since its obvious that they are pressuring DH for a release on launch game...

if i were to get the game however, KI is one of the few FGs that i would be happy to play any one/everyone in the cast since they are all sick and that would keep me going till other characters are released.

Nutrient · 20-08-2013 7:41pm

2gen wrote: »

been reading about this. not too many people are happy about this including myself. i'm not raging like what can be seen on like Eventhubs... just a little disappointed that only 8 characters (6 at launch) is all we're getting for a while. you can only point the finger at MS since its obvious that they are pressuring DH for a release on launch game...

if i were to get the game however, KI is one of the few FGs that i would be happy to play any one/everyone in the cast since they are all sick and that would keep me going till other characters are released.

I'll take 8 original, unique characters over 30 characters with mutiple reskins

Riptor better be in there

2gen · 20-08-2013 10:17pm

Some Gamescom footage. it includes a better demonstration of Thunder's combo potential at the end. crazy to see he can combo into his command grab :eek:

like deathrider mentioned before, its cool to see that Thunder still does the "knees and head-bangs" in his Ultra combo at the end.

Killer Instinct Discussion Thread

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