M50 thread

Carawaystick · 27-04-2015 11:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

and while they're at it, where are the variable speed limits we were promised a decade ago?

underground

veryangryman · 27-04-2015 12:22pm

I heard during the M50 review last year that the road could not be double stacked. Is there a specific reason that this could not be done? Other than cost which would become better proportional to benefit as the existing road gets more and more clogged.

stoneill · 28-04-2015 7:20am

As you join the M50 from the N4 coming from the west, I always think the gantry sign could be designed better.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.35626,-6.390398,3a,75y,93.37h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXMZVcqYZ_L9ZilKXEEkEkQ!2e0

As you approach, the blue M50 sign looks like it is over the middle lane, not the left slip road.
It should be moved over to the left a bit so you know what lane to be in from a good distance away.

tonc76 · 28-04-2015 10:25am

stoneill wrote: »

As you join the M50 from the N4 coming from the west, I always think the gantry sign could be designed better.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.35626,-6.390398,3a,75y,93.37h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXMZVcqYZ_L9ZilKXEEkEkQ!2e0

As you approach, the blue M50 sign looks like it is over the middle lane, not the left slip road.
It should be moved over to the left a bit so you know what lane to be in from a good distance away.

There's a gantry sign beforehand that directs the motorist to the left lane for the M50 (N) though?

https://goo.gl/maps/F5Bkf

veryangryman · 28-04-2015 10:42am

tonc76 wrote: »

There's a gantry sign beforehand that directs the motorist to the left lane for the M50 (N) though?

https://goo.gl/maps/F5Bkf

This is fine except that the bus lane is where this sign is. Strictly speaking, a motorist wouldnt be allowed to enter the bus lane.
So you get alot of "whatThe****AmIToDoNow" from people going N4E->M50N until the last moment.

In a Dubline traffic scenario, this makes for a dangerous and risky junction. Alot of vehicles are using the road for the first time between long distance travellers and airport-bound peeps.

tonc76 · 28-04-2015 12:15pm

veryangryman wrote: »

This is fine except that the bus lane is where this sign is. Strictly speaking, a motorist wouldnt be allowed to enter the bus lane.
So you get alot of "whatThe****AmIToDoNow" from people going N4E->M50N until the last moment.

In a Dubline traffic scenario, this makes for a dangerous and risky junction. Alot of vehicles are using the road for the first time between long distance travellers and airport-bound peeps.

The sign also shows "50m" at which point the motorist can access the lane for M50 (N) as the road marking changes to dashed

https://goo.gl/maps/mtC55

veryangryman · 28-04-2015 1:01pm

tonc76 wrote: »

The sign also shows "50m" at which point the motorist can access the lane for M50 (N) as the road marking changes to dashed

https://goo.gl/maps/mtC55

All of which would be fine on a road where there is a low possibility of being in heavy traffic. Havign to negotiate this + artics within a 50m leeway (if an artic doesnt block your view of the sign) can be difficult.

I think the bus lane should be removed after Liffey Valley. There are enough traffic lanes for it to flow for all types of transport

plodder · 28-04-2015 1:28pm

veryangryman wrote: »

All of which would be fine on a road where there is a low possibility of being in heavy traffic. Havign to negotiate this + artics within a 50m leeway (if an artic doesnt block your view of the sign) can be difficult.

I think the bus lane should be removed after Liffey Valley. There are enough traffic lanes for it to flow for all types of transport

I queried that point with the NRA a while ago, and the problem is apparently the bus-stop rather than the bus lane. If you pulled back the start of the North bound M50 lane, you would get conflicts between traffic moving into the lane and buses trying to pull out into one of the right lanes. They would have to move the bus-stop back I think and I don't know if that's possible.

First Up · 28-04-2015 1:41pm

veryangryman wrote: »

I know i am going to get shot down for this but...

On the M50 there is a case for using the middle lane at busier times for merging traffic.

Yes its not the correct way of going but sometimes its unrealistic to merge safely if everyone is following the rules and not letting you through.

I will move into the middle lane to allow merging traffic to join - as considerate driving requires you to do. But I don't sit there.

mackerski · 28-04-2015 3:47pm

First Up wrote: »

I will move into the middle lane to allow merging traffic to join - as considerate driving requires you to do. But I don't sit there.

Considerate driving requires no more than leaving a sufficient gap to allow a merge. This is almost always better than two lane changes and their impact on the mainline.

First Up · 28-04-2015 3:59pm

mackerski wrote: »

Considerate driving requires no more than leaving a sufficient gap to allow a merge. This is almost always better than two lane changes and their impact on the mainline.

Fine, unless you have two, three or more vehicles trying to enter at the same time.

28-04-2015 4:02pm

Considering ALL bar tallaght-firhouse and Red cow-ballymount exits are at least 3-4 kilometres apart I find the "I need to sit in the middle lane for merging traffic" a redundant argument it should be the "I'm lazy" argument. That is not directed at any particular poster but I have seen this used as an excuse on the motors forum for years to justify middle laning, a particular issue which seems to be getting worse not better as time goes by.

mackerski · 28-04-2015 4:07pm

First Up wrote: »

Fine, unless you have two, three or more vehicles trying to enter at the same time.

Each one finds a gap. Don't get me wrong, some very short merges and/or large merging volumes do make it desirable to clear the lane. The problem is that a culture has arisen of drivers clearing a whole lane just so people can merge. And this is mostly bad for the mainline traffic flow.

First Up · 28-04-2015 4:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Considering ALL bar tallaght-firhouse and Red cow-ballymount exits are at least 3-4 kilometres apart I find the "I need to sit in the middle lane for merging traffic" a redundant argument it should be the "I'm lazy" argument. That is not directed at any particular poster but I have seen this used as an excuse on the motors forum for years to justify middle laning, a particular issue which seems to be getting worse not better as time goes by.

I reckon most of the middle lane squatters haven't even rationalised it as a merge issue. They just go there and switch off.

First Up · 28-04-2015 4:10pm

mackerski wrote: »

Each one finds a gap. Don't get me wrong, some very short merges and/or large merging volumes do make it desirable to clear the lane. The problem is that a culture has arisen of drivers clearing a whole lane just so people can merge. And this is mostly bad for the mainline traffic flow.

Now that is dangerous. A bunch of cars accelerating as they approach the merge and then have to brake hard because there isn't room for them all to move on at the same time.

mackerski · 28-04-2015 4:29pm

First Up wrote: »

Now that is dangerous. A bunch of cars accelerating as they approach the merge and then have to brake hard because there isn't room for them all to move on at the same time.

This stuff isn't rocket science. Indeed, the biggest problem we have in Ireland is that drivers don't accelerate at all, but trickle down the slip road at 60. This is what "requires" the rest of us to vacate the left lane so that they can do a nice leisurely merge.

So anyway, here's how a nearby country (where they drive a bit better than we do) does it:

https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/joining-the-motorway-259

Idbatterim · 28-04-2015 4:32pm

surely if money is to be spent on the M50, it would simply make far more sense to build the eastern bypass and have the port tunnel and eastern bypass, the same toll as the M50 if possible... That way you get a proper ring road and can take traffic off the current M50...

First Up · 28-04-2015 4:33pm

mackerski wrote: »

This stuff isn't rocket science. Indeed, the biggest problem we have in Ireland is that drivers don't accelerate at all, but trickle down the slip road at 60. This is what "requires" the rest of us to vacate the left lane so that they can do a nice leisurely merge.

So anyway, here's how a nearby country (where they drive a bit better than we do) does it:

https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/joining-the-motorway-259

And that is how competent drivers do it here as well. It is mostly a matter of courtesy, common sense and paying attention. If you are looking out for merging traffic you will know if it is better to move out a lane, slow a fraction to allow a merge or do nothing, if the situation doesn't require any change on your part.

Carawaystick · 28-04-2015 5:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Considering ALL bar tallaght-firhouse and Red cow-ballymount exits are at least 3-4 kilometres apart I find the "I need to sit in the middle lane for merging traffic" a redundant argument it should be the "I'm lazy" argument.

Except the merges are a lot shorter for certain movements.

R110 W ->M50 N : Short merge
R135N - M50 N : Short Merge
R148W -> M50 N : Short Merge
R147N -> M50N : Short Merge
None of the above can merge into the auxilliary lane.

Then you have the junctions with 2 onlanes, one of which goes to the Aux lane, but the other has the short merge lane.

mackerski · 28-04-2015 5:45pm

First Up wrote: »

And that is how competent drivers do it here as well. It is mostly a matter of courtesy, common sense and paying attention. If you are looking out for merging traffic you will know if it is better to move out a lane, slow a fraction to allow a merge or do nothing, if the situation doesn't require any change on your part.

Looks like we are in violent agreement.

annfield1978 · 03-05-2015 9:11am

Approval expected shortly from the Minister of Transport for funding for the development of the M50 ITS infrastructure to include avg speed control system, hard shoulder usage, lane management systems

The new M50 Toll Management Contract will also allow the flexibility of introducing multi point tolling should it be decided to go down that route

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=82070&B=&PS=1&PP=

Caliden · 07-10-2015 4:21pm

The schools are back fully now and the traffic on the M50 has once again increased.

Delays now start at the M1/M50 in the morning and J12 in the evening.

I can only hope that the next election will bring some sort of solution but even if it does it's still 3+ years away.

07-10-2015 4:32pm

From 7:25am each morning its full from the M1 to Sandyford. We're well beyond breaking point at this stage.

L1011 · 07-10-2015 4:34pm

Traffic management etc is only going to squeeze so much more out of it - there's a desperate need to provide more public transport and park and ride facilities and potentially outer orbital routes for traffic that doesn't need to be on the M50 to begin with.

Network Direct seriously damaged transport to many business parks etc by bus and needs to be revisited urgently; as do capacity issues and inappropriate vehicle use on existing buses and heavy rail.

When the option is a delay in your private car (that may still be quicker door to door, air conditioned, dry, etc) or a rammed, stinking public transport vehicle people are still going to pick the former.

Idbatterim · 07-10-2015 4:38pm

he schools are back fully now and the traffic on the M50 has once again increased.

Delays now start at the M1/M50 in the morning and J12 in the evening.

I can only hope that the next election will bring some sort of solution but even if it does it's still 3+ years away.

An Eastern Bypass and Dublins appalling transport network needs sorting out. Lots of people seem to commute from North Co. Dublin to Sandyford, I suppose with luas cross city, some would be able to take dart to connolly, then red line, then green to that area... Metro North would solve a good bit of the m50 congestion, as would dart underground, throwing more money now at the m50, is a waste of time and money...

07-10-2015 4:43pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

An Eastern Bypass and Dublins appalling transport network needs sorting out. Lots of people seem to commute from North Co. Dublin to Sandyford, I suppose with luas cross city, some would be able to take dart to connolly, then red line, then green to that area... Metro North would solve a good bit of the m50 congestion, as would dart underground, throwing more money now at the m50, is a waste of time and money...

I'll be doing this, DART to Tara street and then walk around the corner to the Trinity Luas stop on to Sandyford.

If the port tunnel wasn't a ridiculous €10 for a car, maybe more would use it instead of doing the big detour on the M50, even at €5/6 some would pay the extra.

Another problem is alot of west Dublin drivers popping onto the m50 to go a junction or two, if there was another road west of the M50 linking up the big suburban areas and industrial estates alot of the short hop traffic could be eliminated.

marno21 · 07-10-2015 4:51pm

Opening up the port tunnel to more traffic and a second Liffey crossing would be some start to alleviating congestion. There doesn't seem to be space for any more widening

Idbatterim · 07-10-2015 4:52pm

I'll be doing this, DART to Tara street and then walk around the corner to the Trinity Luas stop on to Sandyford.

Good point, to have to change twice after the Dart is a bit of a joke. So you time dart, have a very short walk to trinity stop, where the luas is so frequent, it doesnt need to be timed. It will be interesting to see if many people do this...

Opening up the port tunnel to more traffic and a second Liffey crossing would be some start to alleviating congestion. There doesn't seem to be space for any more widening

the issue at the moment is, that even if you use the port tunnel, you are done again on the east link...

omicron · 07-10-2015 10:05pm

For a partial solution that would require no real investment - charge the €2,10 toll for anyone using the m50 (Jn 3 to 14 anyway), regardless of how far they travel - stop people causing traffic problems by coming on at Junction 9, moving to lane 3 and back again and coming off at Junction 11.

And another crazy solution - make it free before 6.45am and after 7pm. Most of the road is massively under capacity before 7am and after 6.30pm, give people an incentive to make use of the existing infrastructure rather than building an elevated overpass across Dublin Bay.

Obviously all of the above being partial measures to bridge the gap to proper public transport!

celticbest · 08-10-2015 10:01am

A start would be to Police the road, mainly stopping people crossing hatch markings, stopping people coming from the Auxiliary Lane to Lane 3 & back off one Junction later, there is far too much Lane hopping taking place.

The Mainline is the priority and should always be kept moving an easy way of doing this is Ramp Metering, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_meter

Another option would be to merge the on ramp lanes into one so there's no longer two merges at each junction, instead all traffic would merge via the Auxiliary lane.

omicron wrote: »

For a partial solution that would require no real investment - charge the €2,10 toll for anyone using the m50 (Jn 3 to 14 anyway), regardless of how far they travel - stop people causing traffic problems by coming on at Junction 9, moving to lane 3 and back again and coming off at Junction 11.

And another crazy solution - make it free before 6.45am and after 7pm. Most of the road is massively under capacity before 7am and after 6.30pm, give people an incentive to make use of the existing infrastructure rather than building an elevated overpass across Dublin Bay.

Obviously all of the above being partial measures to bridge the gap to proper public transport!

Spot on omicron re charging, I can’t understand why one person is charged for the use of the road and another person isn’t just because they don’t cross the Liffey North to South or vice versa isn’t, I sure if they charged on entry it would cut a lot of the 1 / 2 junction hoppers.

However I can’t see them making the road free to use at any time as the potential revenue loss would be too great.

M50 thread

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