[Pedro K]

Surely there is enough to warrant the C.A.B. having a trawl through Bertie's personal finances. He failed to truthfully disclose the source of many of the sums of money associated with him.

When being investigated by C.A.B. the onus is on the person being investigated to prove the source of the money was legal. Also, the beaurau only need to prove on the balance of probabilities that the money was gained illegally.

Surely enough there to investigate Bertie, no?

[Wider Road]

Originally Posted by Pedro K

Surely there is enough to warrant the C.A.B. having a trawl through Bertie's personal finances. He failed to truthfully disclose the source of many of the sums of money associated with him.

When being investigated by C.A.B. the onus is on the person being investigated to prove the source of the money was legal. Also, the beaurau only need to prove on the balance of probabilities that the money was gained illegally.

Surely enough there to investigate Bertie, no?

You're right,
Investigate Bertie, Flynn, Lawlor, Burke etc.
But why stop there?
A year ago we had the Moriarty Report, what do you think should happen there? Should we no be aware of ex- FG Minister Lowry's and O'Brien's findings in that tribunal and send in C.A.B. also?
Do you agree?
Did you mention C.A.B. a year ago when the Moriarty report came out?
Do you agree with Joe Higgins when he said on radio that leaders of FF and FG knew in the 80's and the 90's that there was corruption in the Dublin planning authorities?

[Pedro K]

Originally Posted by Wider Road

You're right,
Investigate Bertie, Flynn, Lawlor, Burke etc.
But why stop there?
A year ago we had the Moriarty Report, what do you think should happen there? Should we no be aware of ex- FG Minister Lowry's and O'Brien's findings in that tribunal and send in C.A.B. also?
Do you agree?
Did you mention C.A.B. a year ago when the Moriarty report came out?
Do you agree with Joe Higgins when he said on radio that leaders of FF and FG knew in the 80's and the 90's that there was corruption in the Dublin planning authorities?

I can't remember if I mentioned C.A.B. on boards when the moriarty report came out or not. I don't post a great deal and my first instinct isn't always to post here upon hearing news.

I can assure you that I was equally outraged and unsurprised when Moriarty published his findings.

Also, I never said stop at Bertie.

I don't know if you're trying to have ago at me in that post or not?

[Darren J. Prior]

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin TD- Tuarascáil Mahon

[Sierra Oscar]

Originally Posted by Wider Road

You're right,
Investigate Bertie, Flynn, Lawlor, Burke etc.
But why stop there?
A year ago we had the Moriarty Report, what do you think should happen there? Should we no be aware of ex- FG Minister Lowry's and O'Brien's findings in that tribunal and send in C.A.B. also?
Do you agree?
Did you mention C.A.B. a year ago when the Moriarty report came out?
Do you agree with Joe Higgins when he said on radio that leaders of FF and FG knew in the 80's and the 90's that there was corruption in the Dublin planning authorities?

The Moriarty report was sent to CAB was it not? It is a joke that absolutely no movement has been made on the Garda investigation, and I doubt any movement will be made either. It could be investigated but it would require an awful lot of probing - and who knows what could emerge.

And that is where we come back to senior Garda management - do you really think an Assistant Commissioner tasked with overseeing the investigation wants to go ahead and have his men ask the difficult questions, which could potentially annoy current members of the cabinet? Ha, fat chance.

[transylman]

For those interested, here is the link to the thread (the only one that was allowed on here) from the period when Ahern was before the tribunal.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055147722

[southsiderosie]

MOD NOTE:

Originally Posted by Darren J. Prior

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin TD- Tuarascáil Mahon

Per the charter, please do not post links without some explanation of what they contain. Just throwing up a link does nothing to further discussion.

Originally Posted by transylman

For those interested, here is the link to the thread (the only one that was allowed on here) from the period when Ahern was before the tribunal.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055147722

The issue of past - i repeat, past - moderation of Mahon-related threads has already been addressed on this very thread. You don't need to keep banging that drum.

[jank]

Originally Posted by Laminations

@Sierra Oscar

Bump.


If not, why not and how can you claim reformation and renewal? So Bertie is toxic but those senior members that supported him and attacked the tribunal are of a good enough caliber for FF?

If yes, where's the statement from Ogra FF or elsewhere?

Bump again.

You going to answer Sierra Oscar or are you going to ignore the question which I think is very valid and relevant.

[Sierra Oscar]

Originally Posted by jank

Bump again.

You going to answer Sierra Oscar or are you going to ignore the question which I think is very valid and relevant.

Oh, I am all flustered by all of this attention!

In regards the comments made towards the tribunal by senior cabinet members, they should have known better and simply not commented at all. However if you actually go back and examine the context of those quotes which have been played over and over during the last few days you will find that most of the cabinet ministers were replying to queries put to them by various journalists - and quite a few of those queries centered around the tribunal in the context of its long running time and exorbitant costs.

Lets face it, it is an absolute joke that the tribunal spent a decade and a half investigating this matter whilst in the process spending as much as it did to do so. The government came in for a lot of stick in regards this, with the narrative often surrounding the operation of the tribunal rather than what it was investigating. However at the end of the day, government ministers should not have commented publicly in the way they did. Yes they were being asked to give personal opinions by journalists but all the same it should have been recognized that the independence of the tribunal was paramount.

The important matter however is that Micheál Martin has thoroughly accepted the findings of the tribunal, has moved against those named in the report and perhaps most importantly he has admitted a mistake on his behalf in defending Bertie during the investigation. Undoubtedly it has damaged Micheál Martin's reputation - that is clearly evident as we are discussing it here and now. However I do not think that it will be necessary for him to stand down as leader of the party.

EDIT: Sorry for not getting back to you on this as quickly as you would have liked - I cannot be here to continually give my own personal view. I ain't no FF spokesperson, keep that in mind!

[ednwireland]

Éamon Ó Cuív says files should have been sent dpp upto 15 years ago, now where was he at this point , oh yes, in cabinet, thi s has conveniently only occured to him now

Fianna Fáil TD Éamon Ó Cuív, speaking on Raidió na Gaeltachta's Iris Aniar this morning in relation to the Mahon Report, said that he could not understand why people were not formally charged with crimes if they were seen to be breaking the law.

He said that files which related to law-breaking should have been given by the Mahon Tribunal to the Director of Public Prosecutions or to the gardaí up to 15 years ago, and criminal proceedings put in place at that stage.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0326/mahon.html

[MackDaddi]

FF have confirmed Bertie has jumped before he was pushed (again). His resignation was received this morning by letter, but they won't comment further as the same matter concerning P. Flynn and the rest of the bunch is still up for discussion at their meeting.

I can hear the line he'll take steadfastly already, " I chose to leave the party, of my own accord, and with no credible evidence against me" etc.

Ugh, it just sickens me. My one hope is that CAB will eventually catch up with him and we'll finally have the last laugh. The burden of proof will lie with HIM when they do, and they'll have no truck with his usual"whip arounds" and "good days at the races" sh1te.

[jmayo]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

The systematic corruption within the political system is just sick.

[/QUOTE]

Nice of a ff member to make sure everyone knows it was systemic.
But what about the fact three ff leaders and taoisigh have fruad and corruption now associated with them ?
You need to go back to Lynch to find a ff leader not deemed to have been steeped in unethical, dodgy, probably corrupt dealings who was surrounded by pretty corrupt high ranking members.

PS I am being generous and not mentioning your last leader seeing that he sold us all out to the IMF.

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

The Moriarty report was sent to CAB was it not? It is a joke that absolutely no movement has been made on the Garda investigation, and I doubt any movement will be made either. It could be investigated but it would require an awful lot of probing - and who knows what could emerge.

And how long ago was the bank guarantee and the revelations about Anglo/INBS, the Anglo share support scheme, etc ?
How long ago was it that certain legal professionals in this country were found to have acted illegally obtaining mortgages ?
How many ponzi scheme operators have been discovered in Ireland yet none have faced prosecution ?
Do you have any idea how slow our system works investigating anything remotely related to white collar crime ?
It is a joke.

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

And that is where we come back to senior Garda management - do you really think an Assistant Commissioner tasked with overseeing the investigation wants to go ahead and have his men ask the difficult questions, which could potentially annoy current members of the cabinet? Ha, fat chance.

I know it might annoy one ministers brother.

As regards seeking a full fruad corruption investigation into the awarding of the mobile phone license be careful what you wish for.
Much as I would like to see lowry and o'brien get their ars** kicked, the fallout in terms of lawsuits flying from the other tenderers would not be something the taxpayers of this country could now afford.

BTW seeing as you are doing such a good job of reminding us of how lowry was a part of a Fine Gael/Labour/DL government I think people should be reminded he got a very nice taxpayer funded deal in order to support a ff led government.

Obviously he wasn't tranished enough then to be accepted by ff.

[barney4001]

the only people this tribunal will benefit are the solicitors involved in it,what a waste of public funds

[Dodge]

Originally Posted by barney4001

the only people this tribunal will benefit are the solicitors involved in it,what a waste of public funds

Go on then, share your cost/benefit analysis with us showing how much it cost, and how much it brought into the state coffers

[femur61]

Originally Posted by Dodge

Go on then, share your cost/benefit analysis with us showing how much it cost, and how much it brought into the state coffers

All the Tribuanl has done is highlight how stupid we are as a nation. We voted the fkers election after election and now we are being bullied by big Phil. What has he to hide? He suppressed an enquiry into his own constituency.

Nothing has changed or will cahnge.