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Dublin school expels 4 pupils for 'disparaging Facebook comments'

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  • #62
    Wossack
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Wossack


    AskMyChocolate wrote: »
    When did Oatlands become a private school? It never was in my day.

    it still isnt

    not sure why people are banging on like it is


  • #63
    Cossax
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Cossax


    MagicSean wrote: »
    The stuff they alleged had to potential to result in a person losing his family job and freedom as well as leaving them open to investigation by the HSE and Gardaí. Once something is on the internet it's there forever. It's interesting how people were in arms when RTE did something similar to a priest but in this case people are prepared to say they've learned their lesson.

    No and frankly I think someone saying that might have an agenda.

    1. We don't know exactly what was said - at least I've haven't seen it posted yet. In generalities, comparing abuse allegations to what goes on between two teachers/disparaging a teacher's work FFS.
    2. It was some school kids, not journalists working for the national broadcaster.
    3. It probably had a fairly small audience on FB rather than millions on tv.


  • #64
    Dr.Strange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 181 ✭✭Dr.Strange


    I haven't seen the comments or know what they wrote.

    But I think it could be potentially very unfair on the teachers to have the kids remain in the school.


  • #65
    frank reynolds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 404 ✭✭frank reynolds


    whats stupid is that the teachers didnt think that it would appear in the papers maybe? surely if the allegations were on fb, with a small audience, then they would have realised that by reacting by expelling the students in such a headline grabbing way (particularly that one of them is a TD's son) that it would be a media storm.

    maybe their confidence just proves how untrue the allegations are? but sure as fook, everyone in the country will now know what was written about them and the audience will only grow.

    the whole thing is a circus really - who cares???


  • #66
    Dr.Strange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 181 ✭✭Dr.Strange


    frank reynolds wrote: »
    whats stupid is that the teachers didnt think that it would appear in the papers maybe? surely if the allegations were on fb, with a small audience, then they would have realised that by reacting by expelling the students in such a headline grabbing way (particularly that one of them is a TD's son) that it would be a media storm.

    maybe their confidence just proves how untrue the allegations are? but sure as fook, everyone in the country will now know what was written about them and the audience will only grow.

    the whole thing is a circus really - who cares???

    If you had nasty sh!t written about you on the Internet I would imagine you would care?


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  • #67
    frank reynolds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 404 ✭✭frank reynolds


    Dr.Strange wrote: »
    If you had nasty sh!t written about you on the Internet I would imagine you would care?

    but i wouldnt be stupid enough to turn it into a media frenzy by expelling the students - one of which is a TD's son. i'd stop and think about it.

    teachers have an awful habit of getting too personally affected by their students, and if you're not able for it, then you're in the wrong job.

    facebook is facebook, so everyone knows to take it with a pinch of salt. i wouldnt be too fussed about it if there was nasty stuff written about me online - there has been in the past, and you just shrug it off.

    dont play the victim. its words written down on some sh!te page made by teenage muppets. teachers should be well able to handle situations like this without it getting out of control and into the media - and ultimately they will pay an even BIGGER price for it now that it has - a huge national audience, and inevitably it will come out in the media whatever was alleged to have taken place between the adulterous teachers.

    it'll probably turn out to be true


  • #68
    neemish
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭neemish


    People are making it sound like the school said "Oh, you posted something nasty about teachers so we're expelling you all"
    It doesn't work like that - the School would have had to go through other types of discipline first, and try to work out a solution. The BOM of a School isn't just randomly involved in discipline - it only comes to them in the worst case scenario.
    The BOM had to listen to all the facts of the case and then vote on it. They have all the facts! And we only have what is being reported in the papers and online.
    It must have been very serious to come to this


  • #69
    MarkyTheLips
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭MarkyTheLips


    SunnyDub1 wrote: »
    It's affecting the reputation of the school cause of 4 students...
    Why should others have to be punished or told what to do because of it ?
    Punish the 4 involved but leave everyone else out of it and let their parents take care of what they join or do outside of school.

    It's like having 4 students drunk in school, the 4 students get expelled and then the other students are told if they seen drunk out side of school they will also be expelled :confused:

    Am I reading the article wrong? :confused: The school banning FB for under 13s is a different school from the one expelling the 4 pupils yeah?


  • #70
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    It is very hard to expel someone in a public school currently, it takes months of abuse from a student, correct and calculated documentation of these actions by a principal and then a student will be passed over to the board of management who decides whether to expel or not. If the board is in the wrong it will be turned over fairly quickly by a competent solicitor.

    Im guessing these students had a previous record.

    It is a public school. Maybe they will appeal and get back in? Teachers are far too thin-skinned these days. In my day they believed lies added to their reputations.


  • #71
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    foxyboxer wrote: »
    Not harsh at all.

    What they need to realise/now realise is that what you say on social media should be viewed as saying the same things to a crowd of people with a microphone.

    they shouldnt be expelled for saying things with a crowd to a microphone either though, as long as it's not on school property or while representing the school at an external event


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  • #72
    Dr.Strange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 181 ✭✭Dr.Strange


    frank reynolds wrote: »
    of course i would, but i wouldnt be stupid enough to turn it into a media frenzy by expelling the students - one of which is a TD's son. i'd stop and think about it.

    It shouldn't make a difference who's son is involved.
    frank reynolds wrote: »
    teachers have an awful habit of getting too personally affected by their students, and if you're not able for it, then you're in the wrong job.

    So a requirement to be a teacher should be the ability to accept abuse & cyber bullying?
    frank reynolds wrote: »
    facebook is facebook, so everyone knows to take it with a pinch of salt. i wouldnt be too fussed about it if there was nasty stuff written about me online - there has been in the past, and you just shrug it off.

    It's good that you were able to shrug it off.
    The point should be that those responsible are punished.
    frank reynolds wrote: »
    dont play the victim. its words written down on some sh!te page made by teenage muppets. teachers should be well able to handle situations like this without it getting out of control and into the media - and ultimately they will pay an even BIGGER price for it now that it has - a huge national audience, and inevitably it will come out in the media whatever was alleged to have taken place between the adulterous teachers.

    it'll probably turn out to be true

    I'm not defending Teachers for the sake of it.

    But there should be a clear zero tolerance policy on all forms of bullying.


  • #73
    DoesNotCompute
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    foxyboxer wrote: »
    Not harsh at all.

    What they need to realise/now realise is that what you say on social media should be viewed as saying the same things to a crowd of people with a microphone.

    Here, here. This incident might also teach them a life lesson - if you put stuff on the internet, expect potential employers to find out when they google your name.


  • #74
    omgitsthelazor
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭omgitsthelazor


    Anybody else think that far too much is being made of cyber bullying these days? The people casting judgment on it tend to be completely unaware of internet culture and take whats said online at face value. Ignorance and power is a very dangerous thing. Not to mention my disgust in all this is the "victim" is apparently a teacher rather than I'm sure the many students feeling victimised.

    I have no idea if what these pupils said warranted expulsion but its an absolute myth that cyber bullying is an equivalent problem to old fashioned bullying. As someone who suffered from the latter kind of bullying I can say for a fact that I felt far more empowered online to retort, stand my ground and even get even than I would face to face. A lot of the intimidation factor is lost through text.
    My great fear in all this is the kids getting back at the bullies through the one medium they can will be outed by unaware principals and presumed as being the actual bullies.

    I'm not advocating what goes on online but it is a far more even ground for everyone to handle themselves than face to face is, if people start blowing their horn about tackling the bullies because of what people say on facebook or twitter then I cannot even begin to describe how far off base they are.


  • #75
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Dr.Strange wrote: »
    So a requirement to be a teacher should be the ability to accept abuse & cyber bullying?

    absolutely not, but if it happens outside school in the students' own homes rather than on school computers, then it should become a legal matter pursued through proper channels rather than kicking the kids out of school

    failing that, kids need to be made sign a contract with their parents when signing up for a school which outlines offenses that will be deemed punishable, even if taking place outside school, such as what we've seen in this case


  • #76
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    That was my old school, i finished in 99. It was ****e then and full of scrotes and it still seems that way.


  • #77
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    Expelling them is a load of bollocks.

    Many kids don't even realise the impact of posting that type of shit on facebook, the dangers of the internet are obvious to them in many regards.

    I do agree that they needed to be punished harshly, but not expelled. The 20 day suspension was more than enough, if not a tad excessive in itself.


  • #78
    Dr.Strange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 181 ✭✭Dr.Strange


    Helix wrote: »
    absolutely not, but if it happens outside school in the students' own homes rather than on school computers, then it should become a legal matter pursued through proper channels rather than kicking the kids out of school

    It's not really fair on the Teachers involved for the people to remain in the school though.

    If the same thing happened in a work situation, where people were slagging off their colleagues via FaceBook, would it not have to be dealt with by means of disciplinary action, once it was brought to the management's attention?


  • #79
    Dr.Strange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 181 ✭✭Dr.Strange


    Helix wrote: »
    failing that, kids need to be made sign a contract with their parents when signing up for a school which outlines offenses that will be deemed punishable, even if taking place outside school, such as what we've seen in this case

    I would imagine that there is a Code of Conduct for the school, but I'm not really sure if this is signed or how it is made clear to students.

    But what you say is a good idea.


  • #80
    omgitsthelazor
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭omgitsthelazor


    Dr.Strange wrote: »
    It's not really fair on the Teachers involved for the people to remain in the school though.

    If the same thing happened in a work situation, where people were slagging off their colleagues via FaceBook, would it not have to be dealt with by means of disciplinary action, once it was brought to the management's attention?

    It's hardly comparable given that you're dealing with a school and children.


  • #81
    Ensti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Ensti


    TBH, I think expulsion was a little over the top. Something similar happened to a teacher in a school I know and the school did feck all.


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  • #82
    Dr.Strange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 181 ✭✭Dr.Strange


    omgitsthelazor wrote: »
    It's hardly comparable given that you're dealing with a school and children.

    'Children' might be a stretching it a bit, but I see what you mean.


  • #83
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Dr.Strange wrote: »
    If the same thing happened in a work situation, where people were slagging off their colleagues via FaceBook, would it not have to be dealt with by means of disciplinary action, once it was brought to the management's attention?

    i would disagree with that though. i dont think people should be disciplined based on something that happened outside the remit of the disciplining body


  • #84
    BigBrownBear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭BigBrownBear


    If they weren't from a posh school(I know its not fee paying) but from a school in a disadvantaged area....Loads on here, who sympathize with them, would be calling them skangers/scumbags who deserve to be expelled.


  • #85
    Dr.Strange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 181 ✭✭Dr.Strange


    Helix wrote: »
    i would disagree with that though. i dont think people should be disciplined based on something that happened outside the remit of the disciplining body

    But if it affects the working/learning relationship between colleagues or teachers/students, well then surely action must be taken by that body.


  • #86
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    You forgot to mention if it was 16/32/64GB.
    I left that part out purposefully :o


    Anyways,
    The whole thing seems to have been blown out of proportion.
    If these kids were on their lunch break talking this sort of nonsense about their teacher (as I'm sure most of us did to a degree) and another teacher over heard them would the same action be taken? I very much doubt it.
    As others have said kids will always be doing this when they're in school. They grow out of it with maturity, well most.
    A few days suspension would have been plenty with an apology to the two teacher would have sufficed.
    Will they be able to claim the dole yet? :rolleyes:


  • #87
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    BigBrownBear wrote: »
    If they weren't from a posh school(I know its not fee paying) but from a school in a disadvantaged area....Loads on here, who sympathize with them, would be calling them skangers/scumbags who deserve to be expelled.

    Outlands is far from posh, despite its location. Most of the kids who live near it go up the road to Blackrock College.
    Dr.Strange wrote: »
    I would imagine that there is a Code of Conduct for the school, but I'm not really sure if this is signed or how it is made clear to students.

    But what you say is a good idea.
    Unless the school had a Code of Conduct in place to set limits on how pupils should behave on Facebook etc, I think the BoM is on very dodgy ground. This decision could well be appealed or injuncted.


  • #88
    Battered Mars Bar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    Not harsh enough, they should be brought before a court and charge with libel, sexual harressment or something...anything really as long as they get 6 months prison for it. That'll learn them.


  • #89
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    TeddyTedson wrote: »
    I left that part out purposefully :o


    Anyways,
    The whole thing seems to have been blown out of proportion.
    If these kids were on their lunch break talking this sort of nonsense about their teacher (as I'm sure most of us did to a degree) and another teacher over heard them would the same action be taken? I very much doubt it.
    As others have said kids will always be doing this when they're in school. They grow out of it with maturity, well most.
    A few days suspension would have been plenty with an apology to the two teacher would have sufficed.
    Will they be able to claim the dole yet? :rolleyes:

    Well the difference there is that it's between the kids and teacher that overheard.

    What people are slowly learning from kids like these, the morons inciting riots in England also on facebook and that twitter fellow who posted racist comments is that once stuff goes into the public domain it's a completely different ball game and rightly so.


  • #90
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    My alma mater. :)


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  • #91
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    problemchimp wrote: »
    I take the points about bullying, but is this a bullying issue? No other pupils were bullied and let's face it, we all had stories/rumours about teachers when we where at school. Suspension? yes. Expulsion? no.


    I'll be shot for this but teachers are people too you know :rolleyes: They have the same rights as the rest of us and therefore it was a bullying issue.


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