Geothermal - Need New Inverter

Condenser wrote: »

Read the thread directly below yours for all the info you need

Hi Could you send me a link to the thread for the info please as I can't seem to find it.
I too have a neura heatpump and the powerflex 4 inverter is acting up after lightning storm around xmas - not sure how to troubleshoot it either as there doesn't seem to be anyone who knows much about them from what i see. The error that is occurring on startup in an F5 error stored in d008 parameter.

Any info would be very gratefully received!

gctest50 wrote: »

is it kinda like this ?

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/inverter-drives/4319364/

.

Hi it is indeed but it's rated for 5hp which is more expensive. I will try to get the overvoltage error fixed first as I believe it can be a common fault

Thanks
MC

AppleMuncher wrote: »

Hi

Did this inverter do the trick? I'm interested in the outcome as I have the same issue with my Neura heat pump and have also been quoted €1400.

hi there... if you don't mind who quoted you 1400 for the new inverter. Tech were quoting 2300 with no guarantees it would fix the problem so I declined. I have no heating since early January. I have a local electrical engineer looking to see if he can fix the problem. He used to work on inverters in a previous job and he looked at my one and he is not sure that it is the problem. I have told him if he thinks it will cost over a thousand that I'm not really interested and I'm goin to install a sold fuel boiler for next winter. But I'm still hoping he can fix it...

Hi Mchammer

The inverter was flagged just because it is a common fault with these systems apparently, and also given the lightening storms that have occurred in Ireland recently.

I'm not actually in Ireland at the moment (based in the US) so I'm depending on my plumber who has had a consultant engineer (who was, as I understand it, a major installer of these units in Ireland) check it out. It could be the compressor or something else entirely, I'm not sure. So I am traveling home from the US on the weekend to investigate the issue myself and will know more then.

My plumber quoted me the 1,400 euro inverter price, again I need to speak with the engineer in person, to confirm this. AFAIK it is a 3-phase unit.

If you want to message me I can give you my contact details and will be happy to help anyway I can. My system has worked perfectly for about 6 years or so, 3,500 sq. foot house easily maintains 21C running the system only at night. Also have had no issues with the hot water system reaching temp running 8-10 hours at night.

Recently (just before Christmas) the hot water tank developed a leak and upon inspection it was found to be cracked. So it was replaced with a stainless steel one, total cost ~2,500 euro. Now since the end of January the heating system has been problematic. The engineer who inspected the unit suggested replacing the inverter but with the caveat that this may not resolve the issue! And if that didn't work try replacing the compressor! Again none is giving me a guarantee that they will be able to get the system running.

So I'm not happy with the service, the fact that my installer is out of business only compounds the issue. I';ve emailed Neura in Austria asking for a service agent in Ireland but to date have received no response. A colleague of mine has phoned them but only gets an answering machine.

I supervised the install of the ground collectors myself, ensuring that they were laid in several inches of sand, covered with more sand, then I hand filled the initial covering of soil before filling the trench. So I don't think the issue is with the collector install. The house itself has underfloor heating pipes placed uniformly 6-8 inches apart, and each loop is well within the max length advised. Other than having circulating pumps fail regularly, the rest of the system has performed flawlessly for over 6 years so I'm concerned now, given all the posts on Boards.ie and other fora, that the system will give more trouble going forwards.

What seems extraordinary to me is that so many people in Ireland have issues with these systems and have not gotten together to force the manufacturer to provide better service, or advice, or even reduced prices on replacement parts. These systems were advertised as a long-term, cost efficient, eco-friendly home heating solution but it appears to have turned into a nightmare for many people.

PM sent there now

kilowhiskey wrote: »

Hi, I also have a neura system and have had a great deal of problems with getting any help from the Irish agent. But I see that there is a new agents for Neura in Ireland and wondered if anyone has had any feedback on how good/bad they are.
They're quite expensive, but if thay can do the job I'd live with it. They want €60 call out fee (fair enough ) but want a credit card invoice of €500 before they begin any work. And you have to sign a service agreement.

All this is fine by me if they're any good. They are:-
Tech Refridgeration and Air Conditioning in Dublin. They say they've been Neura agents for 6 months now.

Anybody had any experience of them?....

KW

Thanks Kilowhiskey - i have learnt a fair bit since posting that query. The main one is that the customisation Neura have done to the inverter means an off the shelf replacement wont work.The customisation in particular is supplying DC power to the inverter by way of a rectifier which is placed in the inverter after the RF filter. The also have water cooled the inverter. My inverter blew entirely after posting that but i don't believe it had anything to do with back emf which might occur on stopping the compressor. the error i got was always when trying to start the compressor and not when it was running or shutting down. My setup might be different to your though - The link below is just to an image of my setup

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35344271/heatpump.jpg

As i see it I know have three options.

1. Try to fix original inverter - Have a electrical engineer testing it at the moment
2. Buy new inverter and make modifications to match Neura's
3. Buy off the shelf inverter and rewire control unit to fit and try to run heatpump on manual

If i don't get it going for next winter i will be burning turf and coal in a solid fuel boiler... I haven't had any heat except a wood stove the past 2 months and thanks to fairly high insulation levels we are still comfortable enough.. at least the mrs isn't complaining too much

kilowhiskey wrote: »

Hi mchammer,

The F5 error is an overvoltage fault but not from your inverter, it appears that this type of fault can occur if the heat pump compressor "overruns" (it's called back-emf I believe). It's not an inverter fault, here;s the fault information from the Allen Bradley manual for the F5 fault code.


Monitor the AC line for high line
voltage or transient conditions. Bus
overvoltage can also be caused by
motor regeneration. Extend the
decel time or install dynamic brake
option.

You can clear the fault codes and try restarting the pump. If the fault persists then look to the compressor pump for the issue, but it may be as easy as increasing the deceleration time parameter ( Code P040 value ) in the Powerflex unit for your heat pump.

For information an Allen Bradley 3-phase Powerflex 4 invertor is available from RS Components for €230 (+postage and vat), any competent electician should be able to replace it. But ensure all the program parameters from the old one are noted down as these were optimised to suit your installation and need to transferred to the new one.

Hope this helps

KW

kilowhiskey wrote: »

Hi mchammer,

The F5 error is an overvoltage fault but not from your inverter, it appears that this type of fault can occur if the heat pump compressor "overruns" (it's called back-emf I believe). It's not an inverter fault, here;s the fault information from the Allen Bradley manual for the F5 fault code.


Monitor the AC line for high line
voltage or transient conditions. Bus
overvoltage can also be caused by
motor regeneration. Extend the
decel time or install dynamic brake
option.

You can clear the fault codes and try restarting the pump. If the fault persists then look to the compressor pump for the issue, but it may be as easy as increasing the deceleration time parameter ( Code P040 value ) in the Powerflex unit for your heat pump.

For information an Allen Bradley 3-phase Powerflex 4 invertor is available from RS Components for €230 (+postage and vat), any competent electician should be able to replace it. But ensure all the program parameters from the old one are noted down as these were optimised to suit your installation and need to transferred to the new one.

Hope this helps

KW

The unit from Rs components will not work on the neura, the unit has been adapted in the factory to include a rectifier as the inverter is running on single phase,
I've been to two houses that tried in desperation and in the end just wasted €250, it's a case of neura having their two major components( compressor and inverter) modified to such an extent that they can only be sourced direct and customers being held to ransom by all involved

Hi

We are having similar problems with our Neura heatpump (geothermal heating).

System was installed in 2006. On 23rd December 2013 the compressor broke down. After a month of dealing with Tech (Irish service agent) and Neura directly in Austria - we had the compressor replaced free but paid astronomical service fees to Tech. Both were a living nightmare to try and deal with.

In April 2014 the compressor broke again. This time Tech said the oil had leaked into our ground loops and the system was contaminated and we would need a completely new system like air to water which would be likely to cost 10k. Tech and Neura have fallen out since then. Tech paid us back almost all the money we had paid them since December and have said they will have no more to do with us.

We did find out about a family in Kilkenny who had an air to water system installed by Neura. They apparently had the same problem as us and had been through 5 compressors.

We are now dealing directly with Neura who are doing all they can to put us on the long finger - here we are 30 days later with no heating and a 2 week old baby. They keep giving us the line that they only sell the heatpumps and any other problem is not theirs to deal with. Surely, it is up to them to have a service agent in place and someone we can deal with. They have said they will offer us the air to water system like the family in Kilkenny however getting the solid details on this has proved impossible. They are now saying they are putting a new service agent in place to deal with the problem. This is not happening any way quickly. I have spoken to the CEO, technical support and an engineer on a regular basis with only minor results.

So my main queries are:

Has anyone managed to get Neura to make good their heating problem?

Has anyone followed this matter up legally and had some success? We feel there is a case but of course there is the trade off of time and cost involved to pursue it.

What are the alternatives? We have priced other air to water systems but they are too expensive for us at this time. We are trying to persist with Neura but it is very frustrating to date.


Did the pressure group ever get off the ground? There seems to be a large number of unhappy customers.


Thanks for any help

This isn't funny .... Just had inverter AND compressor replaced after recent electrical storm 2 months ago and now it's on the blink again giving an error on the inverter of E.lud . Anyone have any ideas ...? Would be much appreciated

Jimmy

Hi there,

indeed i did get it working again. it turned out to be the resistors which are quite undersized and should be replaced by higher rated resistors. what happens is the resistors are used to limited the current to the cap bank as a kind of charge limiter. if the resistors are blown the caps can get overcharged i believe. if both resistors are blown the fuse will trip at the board when you turn it on as what is happening is a shock charge on the cap bank.

I have also changed my caps just in the past month with caps that have a longer lifetime as some of mine were bulging. I am going into the 9th year heating the house with it and luckily enough for me it is still heating the house bar the odd few hiccups (hope i can keep it going for few more). I am lucky in that my neighbour is a electrical engineer and was able to understand the system and where it was going wrong. Only for him i would have chucked it out a while back...

Are your in-rush limit resistors inside the Allen Brady controller?

Sorry only replying now... no they are outside of it in the main control panel.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35344271/heatpump.jpg they are located outside the controller in the main control panel

These are the capacitors I purchased..
http://ie.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/8384909/

best of luck with it.

I got my neura fixed 2 years ago. I had my compressor changed to a different type of 3 phase compressor this has now started to problems. I am just wondering who is looking after these units now?

Blacksky wrote: »

I have a guy calling on Thursday to replace my three phase compressor. If you wish you can p.m me and I will let you know how I got and give you his details.

As I stated above I hade my compressor replaced for a 3 phase 2 years ago and it has already started acting up. Do you still have the details of the company that said they would swap it for a single phase? I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say. Thanks