Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 06-04-2013 11:55pm

starlings wrote: »

awareness of mental health is good, but a thread full of "you don't understand" is just as ridiculous and ineffective as "pull yourself together." Downright dangerous too - I've almost stopped caring.

Most sensible post of the entire thread.

jigglypuffstuff · 06-04-2013 11:59pm

starlings wrote: »

awareness of mental health is good, but a thread full of "you don't understand" is just as ridiculous and ineffective as "pull yourself together." Downright dangerous too - I've almost stopped caring.

This!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smidge · 06-04-2013 11:59pm

A point I would also like to make is this...

This lad is young and dealing with a difficult situation.
I think he was very badly advised by family or whoever to go on this programme and open himself up like this about a subject that he doesn't have any real experience of.

It may very well turn out to be a negative thing for him as this is a very raw issue for a lot of people.

There may well be people out there who have recently lost someone to suicide and just as he is understandably angry at the hand he has been dealt, these people may very well vent their anger at him over his statements about suicide.

I really don't think he should have been allowed to open himself up to this kind of controversy at this juncture of his life, very unfair all round.

Lyra Fangs · 06-04-2013 11:59pm

pone2012 wrote: »

That is in no way true. depression isnt the same for everyone so therefore you cannot say you know how it feels for someone else!! Ive had my stints in the past, do you know how that felt for me? didnt think so!!
QUOTE]

By that logic you also cannot assume that his message will be interpreted in the same way by everyone who hears it.

DazMarz · 07-04-2013 12:01am

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

Help is NOT really widely available! People still just don't get it. I turned to several people when I felt desperate and they all fobbed me off. Family members and friends. No doubt if I'd topped myself, they'd all have cried at my funeral and said how selfish I was, but when I needed them, not one of them was there for me. I got 'ah but sure your life's not that bad, 'we all have problems, not just you'. I'm sure many people have the same experience.

The above part in bold is one of the huge reasons why I always answer my phone to a friend of mine who I'm pretty sure is suffering from depression. All of our other mutual friends have "gotten sick of him" or some such. He's been in a desperate funk for months and has no signs of coming out of it.

Yes, it does grate on my nerves (sometimes!) when I hear him talk about the same problems and issues again and again, and it is equally galling to me that he takes no advice on board and nor will he see a therapist or a counsellor (I'm sorely tempted to drag him to a therapist, kicking and screaming if need be). But mostly I just listen to him and try to advise and help in whatever way I can.

All of our friends have asked me the same basic question: "Why do you keep answering him and why do you always go to him?"

Because of the above. 99.999999999 times out of 100, he won't be majorly upset or he'll just need a chat or something to help him a little. It does be a lot to ask sometimes at 3am or something, but mental illness doesn't just operate from 9-5.

My huge fear is that if I don't answer my phone, it will be that 0.000000001 time out of the 100 when he might just do something stupid. And I will carry with me for the rest of my days the fact that when one of my friends needed me, I failed. I dropped the ball, I found an excuse and I wasn't there for him. That is one of my biggest fears.

He maintains that he would never try anything like suicide, but that's easy to say when you're thinking straight and you're sober. Throw extreme feelings of depression and self-loathing in with a rake of drink and it has potential. His self-esteem and self-worth are shot to ribbons, and he often says dark, dark shít to me when we talk. I'm stunned by most of it. And worried.

The fact is, and I don't want to sound big-headed when I say this, but I think that I understand that my friend doesn't need "tough-love" (as our friends all suggest; this is stuff like telling him to 'fúck off' when he calls me sometimes and so on; basically turn my back on him), he needs plain love from his friends. He needs a shoulder to cry on, needs someone to vent to. Needs someone to be there for him. Ok, it might mean me having to drag myself from my warm, cosy bed in the middle of the night to make sure he's ok.

What would I rather; a few hours less sleep (I don't sleep well anyway, so screw it) or to wake up in the morning and find one of my best friends has killed himself and had been trying to get in touch with me before he did?

This country lags so far behind in support for mental health, it is truly deplorable. The scores of people (predominantly young men, it should be noted) who are taking their own lives is a sad testament to that.

People who commit suicide are not selfish, nor are they to be scorned. They are afraid, alone, depressed. They need help. There is no need to get into a pissing-contest about which is worse, cancer or depression. They are both utterly terrible in their own horrific ways, with one inflicting physical ruin, the other inflicting mental ruin. Both deserve treatment and help.

Lyra Fangs · 07-04-2013 12:03am

Smidge wrote: »

A point I would also like to make is this...

This lad is young and dealing with a difficult situation.
I think he was very badly advised by family or whoever to go on this programme and open himself up like this about a subject that he doesn't have any real experience of.

It may very well turn out to be a negative thing for him as this is a very raw issue for a lot of people.

There may well be people out there who have recently lost someone to suicide and just as he is understandably angry at the hand he has been dealt, these people may very well vent their anger at him over his statements about suicide.

I really don't think he should have been allowed to open himself up to this kind of controversy at this juncture of his life, very unfair all round.

Well said!

Ruudi_Mentari · 07-04-2013 12:06am

I'm not even sure most young folk are that clinically depressed at all, I'd like to know why there is now a culture of suicide that just wasn't there 20yr ago when the youth scene was not as disturbingly bland as it is now and there was ironically a lot of 'depressing' or 'suicIdal' media for instance popular, as a sufficient outlet

actually I may have answered my own question but we need on get tough on suicide again imo, be entertained by the concept instead of entertain it. If there war one thing that put me off it was my ma suggesting it, suddenly it was the thing to absolutely not-do and I am very grateful to her for that.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 07-04-2013 12:06am

pone2012 wrote: »

This!!!!!!!!!!!!

well,perhaps the last four words could have been omitted,but otherwise..yes.

jessiblah · 07-04-2013 12:12am

I really didn't enjoy reading that some people believe that suicide is selfish. I've read a few of the first pages but it seems a lot of people are repeating "people with depression have a choice."

Sure, they have a choice. But really, depression is just as serious as cancer in that it's also an illness. You can die from any serious illness if left untreated, can't you?

If you don't know you have cancer and aren't treated (or for example, find a lump but don't do anything about it for months), then of course it will be terminal.

It's the same as with depression. If you don't realise you are depressed (or do and don't get help for whatever reason), then you may feel suicidal and technically the illness is terminal.

Both are illnesses which may result in death, right? They are both as serious as each other. Nobody chooses to get depressed, just as nobody chooses to get cancer. Sure in some cases with physical illnesses it may be too late to save those suffering like with this poor lad, but if someone overdoses it may be too late after they've suffered a mental illness also.

My opinion just. Now please don't attack me!

mickstupp · 07-04-2013 12:15am

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

I'm not even sure most young folk are that clinically depressed at all, I'd like to know why there is now a culture of suicide that just wasn't there 20yr ago when the youth scene was not as disturbingly bland as it is now and there was ironically a lot of 'depressing' or 'suicIdal' media for instance popular, as a sufficient outlet

actually I may have answered my own question but we need on get tough on suicide again imo, be entertained by the concept instead of entertain it. If there war one thing that put me off it was my ma suggesting it, suddenly it was the thing to absolutely not-do and I am very grateful to her for that.

I have no idea what any of this means.

pone2012 wrote: »

I hope everyone here who throws the claims around that this kid knows nothing studies psychology . if not then you are just as clueless as you claim this young man to be

Because if you think suffering from a mental illness makes you understand mental health you are most definitely wrong.

Its already been stated personal experience does not equate to understanding

Pardon my opinion, but if you're assuming that studying psychology makes you understand mental health you are most definitely wrong. Whole lot of unprofessional mental health professionals out there, people who haven't a damn clue despite all the books and studies they've read and classes they've sat in on. Education isn't a guarantee of understanding, neither is personal experience.

As to the thread... I think his intentions are good, words could've been chosen better. I wouldn't like to be in one of my bad patches reading his words or this thread.

1000midgets · 07-04-2013 12:19am

I have a cousin who committed suicide.I also attempted my own life aged 16.In my own circumstances I understand what he says when he says "it's a permanent solution to temporary problems".I know it is not this way for everyone but in my case things got better and now I am ok.For people like me it may have some impact,though not sure,I was in a dark place.All I know is it was temporary.

Ruudi_Mentari · 07-04-2013 12:31am

mickstupp wrote: »

I have no idea what any of this means.

Pardon my opinion, but if you're assuming that studying psychology makes you understand mental health you are most definitely wrong. Whole lot of unprofessional mental health professionals out there, people who haven't a damn clue despite all the books and studies they've read and classes they've sat in on. Education isn't a guarantee of understanding, neither is personal experience.

As to the thread... I think his intentions are good, words could've been chosen better. I wouldn't like to be in one of my bad patches reading his words or this thread.

The harsh reality is Suicide is painless. For everyone, involved and I don't see aside from us having become such a wrapped in cotton wool nanny state why young people are now officially indulging in it is it like a twilight inspired cult, or something

We need to return to the thunderdome, get a little crazy and not fear such stigma in these sterile times - we can still be 'suicidal', loud and proud and not be left frozen by a gleeful climate.

Smidge · 07-04-2013 12:36am

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

The harsh reality is Suicide is painless. For everyone, involved and I don't see aside from us having become such a wrapped in cotton wool nanny state why young people are now officially indulging in it is it like a twilight inspired cult, or something

We need to return to the thunderdome, get a little crazy and not fear such stigma in these sterile times - we can still be 'suicidal', loud and proud and not be left frozen by a gleeful climate.

Is this supposed to be funny or a joke?

Ten of Swords · 07-04-2013 12:40am

mickstupp wrote: »

As to the thread... I think his intentions are good, words could've been chosen better. I wouldn't like to be in one of my bad patches reading his words or this thread.

I suppose it remains to be seem what level of media coverage, if any, the interview will get over the coming days. Suicide and mental illness will always be a polarizing issues whenever they come up until there is an acceptable level of openness in society.

Bobby42 · 07-04-2013 12:41am

I've been struggling with depression for years and have been close to the point of suicide. To say that comments like "it could be worse, you could have cancer" are unhelpful is quite an understatement.

For a long time, every waking moment of my life was spent seriously contemplating suicide. I'd spend most of my day thinking about how, when, an where I was going to take my own life.

Why? The pain. The unimaginable, unbearable pain that was my existence. Every minute of every day was all consuming, unbearable pain. All made worse by the fact that you can't get help, you can't speak a word of it to anyone. Absolute mind numbing torture. I was a walking zombie.

Able to show up to work and go home, that was about it. Inside I was dying though. I had to hide to what I was going through, to everyone. It was unspeakable, literally unspeakable, the horrors of what I was going through.

One of my lectures, who has researched suicide extensively, described it as "death before disclosure" in one of her studies.

This sums it up quite accurately. You literally want to die before you tell another living soul of the absolute horror of your everyday life. You feel so ashamed by how you feel. Ashamed just by how you feel.

My life had sunk so low. Every minute just felt like an hour. I remember at one point, I get up for work, and it would nearly take me an hour just to get the energy to leave the house. I would sit down to eat my bowl of cereal at half seven and listen to the news. By eight o clock the news bulletin would come on again I'd still be looking at that bowl of cereal, not really able to eat it, the guilt was too much. "I don't deserve this food, I don't deserve to be alive", this is what would have been going through my mind. I'd nearly been listening to the radio for forty minutes but I wouldn't have been able to tell anyone anything I had heard on the programme.

For people who say suicide is selfish. Believe me, I truly believed that I'd be doing my friends and family a favour. If I died, I'd be gone and no longer a burden. I believed that I was subhuman. I had planned to throw myself in front of a train, thinking that the driver wouldn't care, that it would be the same as driving over a piece of rubbish.

As for getting help, well, how can you get help when it is simply unspeakable? I literally didn't have the vocabulary within me. It was like if I was to get help, I'd have to speak a different language.

I actually spent some time in hospital. I even heard an elderly man who was on the same ward as me that his cancer had spread and he wasn't going to live. I can't describe the absolute disgusting shame I felt.

But, when you are in 24/7 agonising pain you just become so overwhelmed that you simply can't think clearly. The only thing you can think of is ending the pain. Like if you broke your arm in half and the pain is so bad you just want to cut your arm off. Imagine going through this hell and having to pretend that your arm is actually fine.

This type of campaign simply isn't helpful at all. When you've gotten so low, when you literally think you are less than human and undeserving of help and undeserving of life, being hold to sleep on it isn't going to work.

I actually wanted to die, I felt that that man in the ward was more deserving of life than I was, I felt that I should kill myself and he should live, fair trade as I saw it.

Go get help? No, I'd be wasting the professional's time, there better people out there, more deserving of help than me.

That's my experience of feeling suicidal, its hard to understand unless you've actually been there.

_Whimsical_ · 07-04-2013 12:45am

I would be surprised if some of the people commenting here actually watched the guy being interviewed tonight.

He wasn't venting anger at the suicidal.Infact he mentioned specifically that he had nothing against mentally ill people.
If anything I think he brought home that people who are suicidal or who have mental illness can be treated, there is help out there, whether it be from family,friends,a counselor, doctor, medication or whatever. People do not HAVE to die of suicide. He's in a position where nothing will save his precious life, he's using his last days to hopefully encourage others to pause for thought about how precious their own lives are and to seek help if they need to rather than die needlessly.

How people can take such negative from that is beyond me.

Smidge · 07-04-2013 12:53am

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I would be surprised if some of the people commenting here actually watched the guy being interviewed tonight.

He wasn't venting anger at the suicidal.Infact he mentioned specifically that he had nothing against mentally ill people.
If anything I think he brought home that people who are suicidal or who have mental illness can be treated, there is help out there, whether it be from family,friends,a counselor, doctor, medication or whatever. People do not HAVE to die of suicide. He's in a position where nothing will save his precious life, he's using his last days to hopefully encourage others to pause for thought about how precious their own lives are and to seek help if they need to rather than die needlessly.

How people can take such negative from that is beyond me.

I think you may want to read his quotes in the article linked on pg 1 of this thread.

Doublelime · 07-04-2013 12:57am

AHHH leave it ouuu. AHHH here leave it f****** out RTE.

Ten of Swords · 07-04-2013 12:58am

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

He wasn't venting anger at the suicidal.Infact he mentioned specifically that he had nothing against mentally ill people

"I hear of young people committing suicide and I’m sorry but it makes me feel nothing but anger."

This comes directly from his original letter and is quoted in the article in the Independent. Whether you consider this to be venting or not it certainly sets a tone and anyone reading it knows his stance right from the beginning.

Steve O · 07-04-2013 12:58am

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

He wasn't venting anger at the suicidal..

From the article

I feel angry that these people choose to take their lives, to ruin their families and to leave behind a mess that no one can clean up

Yet still I hear of young people committing suicide and I’m sorry but it makes me feel nothing but anger

Hmmm, now whom are you accusing of not reading the article?

Victor · 07-04-2013 1:01am

pone2012 wrote: »

And to the person who says suicide isnt selfish let me ask you something.

Imagine how it feels to be a mother/father/sibling/partner looking over one of your familys coffins thinking what you could have done/what went wrong,where someone so central to your life is ripped away in a flash never to return.

So, you want to make people who are considering committing suicide, feel selfish and guilty?

What is the logical conclusion of such a person felling more guilty?

Smidge · 07-04-2013 1:01am

It's repeated Monday at 1am(Sunday night to you and me:))

Ten of Swords · 07-04-2013 1:01am

opinion guy wrote: »

I missed this - anyone know will it be on the RTE player ?

I just checked RTE player, it's there. He was the first guest on, the interview with him starts just before the 5 minute mark.

opinion guy · 07-04-2013 1:03am

Ten of Swords wrote: »

I just checked RTE player, it's there. He was the first guest on, the interview with him starts just before the 5 minute mark.

Yeah found it:
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10128758/

Enduring the bad Tom Cruise jokes now

General General · 07-04-2013 1:04am

Steve O wrote: »

Hmmm, now whom are you accusing of not reading the article?

I think it was just a Whimsical remark.

Frito · 07-04-2013 1:06am

Although I'm guilty of forgetting, it's situations like this that reminds of the importance of considering one's turn of phrase.

I often wonder if 'choice' is a misnomer in suicide. I imagine suicide is rarely chosen, rather it is a conclusion that is reached. This maybe due to faulty logic or not, but likely occurring in the context of utter despair and isolation. Hopkins' Terrible Sonnets spring to mind.

To refer back to the OP, I'm not sure whether the boy in question has much experience of depression. Considering the hand that he's been dealt, that's maybe a good thing. I still reckon this is the most sensible post so far and worth quoting again

Ihatecuddles wrote: »

I think he's young and life has been unfair to him. He's speaking about something he doesn't fully understand.

in case it was missed the first two times.

jigglypuffstuff · 07-04-2013 1:06am

Victor wrote: »

So, you want to make people who are considering committing suicide, feel selfish and guilty?

What is the logical conclusion of such a person felling more guilty?

Actually that was a direct response to someone who stated that suicide was not selfish.

Indeed not i wish to make nobody feel guilty,

however as far as im concerned the truth remains, The act of suicide is a selfish act, further proof lies in what I said. If people with depression do such a thing, they will most likely leave behind a family who also will fall into depression

To inflict such pain on your loved ones is selfish and I'll argue that point with anyone!

Smidge · 07-04-2013 1:07am

General General wrote: »

I think it was just a Whimsical remark.

Unfortunately without the whimsy;)

General General · 07-04-2013 1:11am

pone2012 wrote: »

Actually that was a direct response to someone who stated that suicide was not selfish.

Indeed not i wish to make nobody feel guilty,

however as far as im concerned the truth remains, The act of suicide is a selfish act, further proof lies in what I said. If people with depression do such a thing, they will most likely leave behind a family who also will fall into depression

To inflict such pain on your loved ones is selfish and I'll argue that point with anyone!

What do you hope will be gained from arguing that point with anyone?

Steve O · 07-04-2013 1:12am

pone2012 wrote: »

Actually that was a direct response to someone who stated that suicide was not selfish.

Indeed not i wish to make nobody feel guilty,

however as far as im concerned the truth remains, The act of suicide is a selfish act, further proof lies in what I said. If people with depression do such a thing, they will most likely leave behind a family who also will fall into depression

To inflict such pain on your loved ones is selfish and I'll argue that point with anyone!

Tell you what, if a depressed suicidal persons "loved ones" think that it is selfish, how about they share in the misery of what that person is going through. Maybe they'll change their tune when they feel even a small portion of the despair someone on the edge goes through.

Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

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